i miss reds, and being red. but.. we arent in mo1 with 3 red toons and 1 blue.
Standing System
- Thread starter Albanjo Dravae
- Start date
It's also very easy not to get Murder counts... Don't be a dick!
One of the reasons I continue to come to MoFo is lines like this. ahahaha. I mine 30 meters from town w/ a horse zz, no issue. If I die, I die. I have horses stocked and if I start running out of horses, I change my strategy. That's why I keep taming. Mining w/o a horse is wack and I'll pull 5 stax in a choice spot on a horse before I mine my carry weight and walk to the crusher. It's just, from the other side, a risk roll. Generally once town pop gets right, those sort of instances will decrease as well, as I've been saying REP has a lot to do with how other players see you. Some player might legit walk by as you are getting ganked, but if they like you, they will help.
What nonsense @ people don't escape ganks. lol. Unless the ganker has a horse w/ bags, anyway, he's just letting those rocks sit on the ground, sure, it's time wasted but making 25gish (not in mats, just like if you wanna quicksell on broker) depending on where you are while you tab troll mofo is my kinda life, and they gain nothing except what little they can pick up. If I come back dead it's like hmm, who did it. If it continues to be the same person, like that dude UNBEGREEF or whatever?Killed my horse twice, and I was like well I guess I gotta park my horse in town and walk to crusher, wahhh, I might be like dood y u enjoy wasting other people's time or "you lonely?" Or see him at the furnace and be like "Oh, you do make your own mats!" I wish I could see that guy on the forum tho, I'd really give him a piece of my mind.
That being said, the flaw in the rep system goes way beyond what is listed. You can go neg defending your own city, that's lunacy. You can't put a numerical value on people's behavior. It actually makes the game more pseudo-psychopathic because you are always calculating how much rep you have or whatever. I'd like to know who suggested the parcel running idea, because I am pretty sure it was a single person or a small group of people, and it just a bad look.
A lot of the people posting here are PKers. I'm not saying I wouldn't PK someone, circumstantially, but in general, this system screws over EVERY PLAYER. Jatix kinda said it, but it must be reiterated. NO ONE IS HELPED BY THIS SYSTEM. The only people who THINK they are helped are people who didn't get killed much in beta and believe it was because of the system. It does help town grief, tho, I guess... which is a huge plus. I'm all for getting rid of horse ganking in town, otherwise, it has no positives and this will bear out on release. WATCH.
I dunno why low standing doesn't just make you local grey in that territory. It's not the perfect fix, but THESE PEOPLE ARE BLUES. These PKing standing people. You wouldn't know it, but they are KILLARS. There's no like... parcel powder on their hands to prove they just ran 10 in a row so they can kill all they want, and like dude said it's true... you can run parcels and PK all you want. That's stupid.
HOWEVER, the main draw of a sandbox game is 1. huge immersive world where choices matter and influence how other players treat you and 2. you are never forced into quests. Clade exp not coming from just about every type of advancement is a FLAW. Running parcels is a FLAW. It's not balanced, and the people who wanna kill, who have that enjoyment of killing, just run parcels. They are the ones doing the semi afk riding WHILE BLUE haha. No gear necessary. GG.
At some point, you have to put a lot of this into the players hands. It's hard to do because people can exploit it, just like any other numerical system, but if someone is PKing everyone and people band together and drive them away, they should be rewarded. Maybe they WILL be rewarded by the towns people. If people are like leaving it in the players hands doesn't work 1... have we tried this?? You can't compare it to GK and Kran, small areas, and arguably the players DO HANDLE IT loool. The only way to make a rep system work is have it actually be player controlled.
And yea there should be some punishment for PKing if someone is truly an innocent, but how many people in MO really are? And how do we tell? It's a conundrum and the more 'complex' they try to make the system to prevent it, the more convoluted it will become. As I said in the other thread, just add in red camps near by that are tied to cities' brokers w/ benches. The citizens can decide who is allowed to res there and gear up. And shit maybe Mr. I just killed your horse can walk some of the stacks over to the broker and put them up so that they don't just melt on the ground.
Yeah you are right, the standing system is flawed. Im not particularly against parcel runs because they do at least generate a travelling flow of players, and at least the ones that care to be blue.
I've scaped from ganks, believe and not just a few times, several times. Its different if you are afk and you realize you getting hit when your horse is dead and your hp is half, u won't make obviously. It's hard to scape from a sticky back? well yeah but if you parry and outstam the enemy considering its a 1v1 and you have close or same speed than someone else u can prob scape into the mountains or forests, not really in the open field cuz mounteds.
The thing is if you get ganked cuz afk (Cuz PVE is dogshit) and you don't care to lose that shit its fine, like you said u can change strategy if you running low on gear or horses or whatever.
I don't see a reason for the law to exist where theres no alive players neither guards, if you kill everyone that is not friendly u just made the perfect crime there should be no repecussions, now if someone manages to scape and make it alive to town that very action to care and survive should be rewarded with the full force of the law, suddently you can report the criminal actions you have just whitnessed.
Awareness and survivability should be rewarded in case of criminal situations otherwise u just get ganked respawn give murdercount and gg thats it.
Removing the murdercount when ress mechanic and implementing alive report system should bring law by the hands of players into where shouldn't be any law which is the wildness. You are encouraging people to stay alive and fight for their lives, to care for their city and report criminal behavior you are encouraging awareness, grouping and more.
Well i feel joyfull you ain't on the development team and you're just a random.
There is benefit in killing everyone in the open world, do you think the current system brings any justice? Conflict can be avoided with awareness, you can see people comming in and you can evaluate the outcome, the risk of staying or not. Or you could just not be aware at all and get ganked and not even notice until its too late.
With an alive report system there is punishment but in order to report someone you would have to make alive into town. Which gives the players the actual criteria of what to do, to decide if they want to kill randoms or not, or perhaps kill a known murderer without repercussions. Suddently the law is created by the players and not by arbitrary punishment mechanics.
You think if people can will murder everyone they see? I think not, i think theres people in the game that have defined gamestyles and they like to preserve it. When i mean the law will be set by players criteria i mean people have the free will to excercise their own law. For some the profit is in helping someone. For example i've managed to collect such a bad reputation with the criminal actions i've done that some people won't talk to me ingame or some won't trade with me and its perfect, and they are excersizing their own free will.
I think thats what the game is all about, player interaction. So, by applying alive report system players will be aware of their surroundings, grouping will be encouraged, social relations will adquire a mayor role, etc.
If a criminal remains anonymous to a town or a faction it should remain that way till someone proves the opposite, so the law is achieved by players. The how you punish those actions is another amazing debate, but statloss ma dude its the absolute dog ass mechanic. And in MO1 for many years till the end of the game there were a LOT of mechanics that did bypass statloss mechanics completly, like TC or keep priests obviously because nobody was vouching for statloss, or murdercount timesink mechanic, SV realized that kind of punishment and limitations were absolute trash.
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I managed to not get murdercounts by killing people's horses and triggering them enough for them to get local grey.
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Peak hypocrisy, all you did was say the previous system was trash and that "people won't kill everyone they see if there's no punishment."
Ass backwards logic, it's been proven repeatedly in sandbox games that people can and will always abuse every system to the max.
Why are there no ARPK guilds in MO2 if the current system of less punishment works to enable more playstyles and not less?
Fact is you want to murder without repercussion, and are advocating for an even less punishing system than already exists.
a flaw in the system has been identified!
Thing is, if you saw someone in the wild and they didn't try to kill you it was probably because they didn't have confidence in their ability to kill you, they were doing something important enough, like moving weight, that to stop and kill you would ADD risk, or they were genuinely not interested in killing everything they saw. The rest of people were killing all the time. I know you played MO1. Red system didn't change much at all, except the colors of people who killed you. It's nice to give the rainbow some love.
I don't believe it has been proven repeatedly that people will kill everything they see in sandbox games. MO is a diff beast. It's more dynamic. Are people killing everything they see in Life is Feudal? There are games where all there is to do is kill people, but in MO you have to get resources, etc, there was always massive 'nutcupping' (still my fav term from MO1,) no system is going to protect you from being PK'd in Mortal, the person who protects you is YOU. If 10 people go out to get something and 1 succeeds then even if none of them pvp'd the 1 'won.'
There was a reason that MO sputtered along until WALLS slowly starved it off (once people got tired of stacking mats.) I'm not everyone else, true. But I played MO1 solo and didn't come up off of anyone. I went from 0-->doing my own thing. No non-consensual pvp, either. Never went red.
If people didn't need to consistently gather mats to gear, and the map wasn't so huge (as well as mats being scattered for the most part throughout the map), it would be a fair complaint. There will still be a lot of PKing even if they removed all flag system, but it would not become a massive death match, very few people would even get past steel then, if that. And then all the guilds that were smart and allied would have all the mats and the other guilds would get stomped out or would have to ally to defend themselves.
No anti-PK solution has solved PKing. Outside of RAW BANNING people who do a lot of PKing, I dunno how it would. Plenty of people in the game don't wanna pvp at all. Like I said, if people got to choose whether to flag open pvp (local grey) or true innocent (blue, but could never interact w/ anyone in a pvp manner, including looting), I think you would be surprised at how the split came out.
The thing that people don't wanna deal with is the initial phase, but people already think this initial phase is gonna be CHAOS, and that's with 'the awesome standing system' in place. People are still gonna get griefed out of the game. Think about it like history. People were cave men, fighting everything they saw then they realized hmmm developing societies and trading... it makes more sense. There would still be a lot of PKing, maybe a bit more, but it would allow more people to enter into pvp as well. So would it be bad? I dunno...
One thing that has DEF been proven in MO is no system they have thought of yet is going to stop people from mass killing if that's what they are intent on doing, and some people are even thirsty enough to run parcels to do it (lol.)
Saying no previous system has stopped people from mass killing doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a system. I don't want to stop everyone from being a murderer, but it should be a playstyle that has trade offs for the option to kill anyone you see. Right now everyone you see in the wild has to be considered a murderer first and foremost because everyone has the option to kill without significant repercussion.
They've removed the dynamic of a red approaching you in the wilderness, you knew from sight that he was a murderer and is very likely going to attack you.
Again, why are there no ARPK guilds in MO2 if removing punishment benefits multiple playstyles?
The only thing that made stat loss near unacceptable was forced resurrection of spiritism, which they have also removed. Stat loss needs put back into the game.
Lol there are no arpk guilds cuz of the current mechanics, cuz for making justice gotta farm a Lot of standing unless becomming a perma red but that defeats the purpose of arpk. Cuz current arbitrary punishment mechanics are stupid. I believe in mechanics that work as tools for players to develop their gamestyle instead of things like ress and murdercount.
With an alive report system you should get rewarded for seeking justice, rewarded by punishing the criminal actions.
Also criminals that go under certain reputation with a faction should be something along the lines of "hidden criminal" instead of just being blue. So if you decide to attack a known criminal that looks blue but you actually know its not, there should be no repecussions when you engage combat.
I see the value of player justice instead of the current mechanics that doesn't work well.
I love the red name thing has been removed, diegetically being in the wilerness, alone and someone you dont know approaches you, its up to your criteria to stablish if this person Is or ain't trustworthy. This Is empowering the actions of a player, i hate the dumbass themepark literal mechanics "hey this dude Is criminal look at its red name so cool, RUN!".
If you are too dumb to get to the conclussion that a random approaching you might want your shit, maybe u need to get killed to understand the nature of the world.
There are no arpk guilds cuz the current system Is unrewarding towards that gamestyle, there are no tools for people to actively excersize that gamestyle.
There Is repecussions on killing people, you get standing loss, and if that ain't significant enough you can whip yourself and kneel on corn seeds while praying if you kill someone. (cuz it ain't stoopid ass murdercount Time sink or dumbass statloss)
Lol these mortal 1 idiots with their "bring back statloss i dont wanna play i wanna suffer huehuehuehue"
Hard agree. Anyone who disagrees is just trolling. The first game died because rpkers were allowed to run it and wall off everything and farm noobs in the starting area. Now that they can't do that they're crying because there's a lack of easy targets, and they want more.
Lol mo1 launch had many many design flaws, they changed the capital of the world for mk and mk didn't had any newbie support people would get spawn farmed in a blue priest and wasn't able to reach GY at all. That was like THE place that made a lot of people rage quit.
Another thing that killed the game on that launch was the game couldn't handle the people it had, and the server was getting DDoSd on top of that, so you can imagine how much of a shit show it was.
I mean, this thread is not about griefing starting people in a blue priest if my suggestion of adding an alive report system triggers you so bad im sorry buddy.
I'm glad you agree- by removing 99% of punishment for murderers they've removed the ARPK playstyle from the game.
Now go back and read your post about how continuing to remove punishment is somehow going to create more playstyles. There's no logic to your argument.
In the current system I am going to be able to walk into major towns with hundreds of murder counts, which means there is no repercussion for all the killing, robbing, and priest camping I choose to do.
You think the game would survive after punishing players for participating in its main content?
Why are you complaining about priest camping I dont get it. That's territory control. There is no punishment for dying naked and little carebears try to keep coming back naked to harass instead of going to the next priest.
You just shouldn't be respawning every 15 seconds at a priest so who is the real griefer in this situation? The person who won the game or the person that is continuing to lose on purpose out of spite.
You already have punishments through the rep system. I cant understand why you are complaining about people who have murdercounts going into town. You know that murder counts just means you killed a non grey that had under 5 MCs. It has nothing to do with if you were the aggressor or the agressed.
You want a blind system unable to determine context to be extra punishing? Im a red player the current system I like. It doenst bother me because I never go in to blue towns, but it does hurt non red players who are not going around killing every player they see. You cant attack known enemies that have been killing people because you could get a MC which will cause you to get priest camped outside of town or you could lose rep and be banned from town.
You will just be hurting everyone else besidse the real PvPers who are perma neg if you made the system more punishing.
It doesn't. You're just trolling. I'm sorry having a different opinion based on the information I have gets to you so badly. Have a day.
ARPK support mechanics shouldn't relay just on the punishment of PKs specially not on stupid timesink mechanics from another era of gaming, and the reward for the people seeking justice shouldn't be only the punishment of criminals. What i ment is that there has to be a mechanic that supports people doing justice, for example hitting a known criminal thats currently blue will turn you grey and thats unacceptable, that being the way it is works a a detriment for city gate fighting, so people that count with the city backing up can't afford to go grey.
Now i've fought with and against the batki militia for quite some while and i can say that there are clear disadvantages for town militias (or players that help fight the criminals) why?
Because a non organized force is fighting a tight organized force, criminals are grouped often in comms so this has clear advatanges in fights. When the militia despite having VOIP its not organized. So i can see how an alive report system and a mechanic that encourages people to fight known criminals will be beneficial for the blue or justice seeking people.
I don't think adding more punishment for the criminal playstyle is going to do anything but to piss off people, then again like mentioned before i like the idea of providing tools for the town living people, the blue and arpks to defend their place. And by tools i don't mean ressurect and give murdercount or statloss or murdercount burning.
We can discuss these things all day aslong as we discuss it instead of justifying how it already works or justifying timesink mechanics like statloss and murdercount burning.
I would say the bigger reason is that the town people are too scared to go grey because they cant flee to guardzone. The few times they went to camp priest with a 30 v 5 fight we had one dude keep respawning that could give murder counts. Must have really ruined who ever was campings day.
Really hard being inbetween full murder hobo and guardzone hugging never PvPer.
The main reason most people will be playing is to PvP so would be really dumb to just punish people for playing the game.
Yeah thats true, but why are they scared? Cuz often solo or in small non experienced groups, relying in scaping to town is suddently their best ally. Most of the times i've fought with the militia its everyone for their own except when fought with NWO the other day they actually healed me and help me scape stickys. That kind of trust between your city mates is something thats built from experience but most of the time the militia has unexperienced people or "everyone for their own" mentality people.
Which is the counterpart of fighting organized groups, so i don't see the city being an ally as a problem. The problem is the pvp often goes too close from the city and blue people count with guards to kill criminals and criminals often dive into the gates of town.
An alive report system should bring justice locally, and the closer you are to a city doing criminal shit the easier would be to get reported. This considering you ain't a permared and you do care for your standing.
In that case it would only be natural PVP happens further away from town instead of city-gate fighting.