Standing System

Backyard Employee

Active member
Oct 30, 2021
273
199
43
I understand the concept of going below 0 rep and not be able to get in town. Like I said before, they said they were going to implement a way to gain rep below 0, so im not going to cry over something that just hasnt been implemented yet.

Oh I didn't even know that. Goes to show a lack of forum presence makes some people ignorant.

I also agree with your points about Discord. Discord is shit for feedback because it's real time, and holding conversations is impossible as others can simply talk about something else or people inject opinions real time (Which believe it or not leads to more bias then when typing up a post.)
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
  • Haven Flag - Give players who just left Haven a flag of immunity. Just like in the original MO, allow players to be invulnerable to PvP encounters for a set of in-game time. Just don't allow them to loot player loot bags other then there own, engage in PvP, cast magic on others, or push others. This would help players get another step into the world without being bodied horribly and let them get their bearings. Haven still doesn't prepare people for the real game because Haven lacks any form of PvP training. HAVEN NEEDS AN ARENA.
  • Danger Prompts - When a player spawns into the game world (the actual one) for the first one, give a big DISCLAIMER like in the tutorials for a final WARNING that the world is dangerous and filled with players who purposely go out of their way to kill others. THIS NEEDS TO BE A THING REGARDLESS. Many players really do not realize players in the game kill for fun.
  • Guild Boards - Bring back guild boards. Both in Haven and in actual cities. Allow players to browse guilds to join. Allow guilds to create recruitment posts with a description and requirement. Have options for guilds to set if they can join freely or need to apply. Players need guilds fostering them to stay. Discord & Forums are not enough. Some players will never touch either.
  • Starter Kits - Call me a carebear, I don't really care. But players should be given a starter kit after they leave. If anyone remembers the semi-revamped MO1 tutorial exit when you could choose a 'profession' which gave you things like money, regs, books, weapons, armor, etc. Players need this to. Give players some more starting money, some extra weapons, some vendor armor, etc. Taking 6 things with you off Haven and having a gold value of 10 is fine - but players need some extra help starting. Some people will die and lose everything, then literally have nothing left. Seen it plenty already.
  • Town Tasks - Build something into this reputation NPC in which players can perform tasks around the town that are specific to that town. For example I'm in MK, so have new players pick Malus Fruit, Cotton, Chop Wood, Mine Granum, Butcher Pigs and Turn in specific materials for reputation and money. It doesn't have to be much - but allow players to fill Town / NPC made buy orders that aren't player driven to contribute to their standings in town. Don't make it lucrative, just enough to get back on their feet if need be.

Just some ideas but yeah.

These are good valid points that would definitely help the noobs population and i agree. Except for the last item, this is the reason broker exists. In MO1 i had buy orders in most of the cities for alchemycal ingredients, i paid what was considered top price (which wasn't worth the gathering effort to be honest) and people that needed the gold filled up my buy orders, simple elegant solution.

I believe that the game will be much richer if its player interaction centered instead of NPC questing, this is one of the things that made MO1 unique.


Holy shit, this is going to be painful. I can tell your a liberal. No matter what u talk about your the type of person that turns yourself into a victim.

Murder counters do matter. They determine whether you are red, thus determining whether you can give other murder counts or not.

I was referring to people saying perma red or perma negative standing. As far as I know its only a thing atm because they having implemented the way to improve your standing while not having access to towns. Either way, you can macro red status off and you can work towards improving rep, no matter how low it gets. So my point was, its not perma.. its just a long ride. And if you killed 100 nerds trying to figure out center block, you deserve it.

I'm not really trying to blame anyone, not sure where you get that, but I could absolutely blame shit design on garbage feedback. Jumping into the discord general chat is like peaking into the windows of a half way house and watching a heroine addict tell a crack head how to live his life. It mostly worthless bitching. But I dont really blame anyone in my post.

And yes i prefer a black and white system in terms of murderers. I think the majority of the pvp should be promoted and pushed towards guild wars and faction fights. So people who are actively trying to pvp are fighting others who are like minded. But that doesnt make it impossible to kill the kid in meduli graveyard trying to get his center block down... i mean, go ahead and kill him. there should just be clear consequences for that and you should be identified as someone who kills blues if thats what you do. You shouldnt be able to just fuck other ppl over all day and have no consequences. pretty simple concept. The system currently does not do that, and system in mo1 did more so than this. neither good, neither perfect, one clearly better than the other.

PKs are good for games, see mortal one. It had stat loss it lasted a while. Too many PKs are not good for the game. See darkall 1.0 through darkfall 8.0. Shit game, no stat loss and in the end, no pop. You make it sound like I dont want PKs, which is silly to me because im clearly trying to say I just want it to be tougher to kill ppl non stop. I'm also red on all my characters.

Roflmao what??? you call me liberal, that doesn't mean anything to me and im not trying to turn myself into a victim lol?

Im clearly against your notion of which direction the game should take, i believe in player organization rather than imposing mechanics. I believe that there has to be core and solid foundations regarding the standing system but i absolutly despice dumbass punishment timesink mechanics to enforce control over gamestyles i think one of the most beautiful things MO1 had was the freedom which is the strongest sandbox element, it wasn't TC, housing, pve, fishing it was player interaction. It was how people built relationships how guilds became closer or broke into pieces.

You don't want to deal with that, you don't want free will you want control, the fact you are so obsessed with non consensual pvp makes me think you are missing the point. Even tho you do like non consensual pvp but only against "murderers". Its absolutly perfect if you want to roleplay a policeman i mean many did, and many still does just don't complain because the rules apply the same way to you as for the murderers.

Now, if you really wanna be a cop then start farming standing and make justice or perhaps suggest a system that doesn't imply stupid solutions to fundamental problems.

Feedback is terrible yeah, but you can't blame feedback... There u go again blaming the players for bad design. I can tell you something about feedback, the previous forum in MO1 had the most extense feedback archive you could ever imagine, from the minds of amazing players that gave their perspective towards fundamental problems and SV repeatedly ignored for a decade but i know for a fact some people personal opinions got implemented as mechanics prior to server wide sieges, so yeah the feedback is there and enough to make 10 games better than mortal 2, its what you do with the feedback that matters.

Wardecs were ment to be another way to access pvp, mostly town pvp but the strongest type of pvp ever was wilderness pvp.

PKs are good for games yes
PKs are bad for the game if there isnt anything to keep them in check.

Statloss was a terrible mechanic such a dog ass mechanic that TC came along and bypassed it almost completly. Because SV knew and people knew that statloss was garbage.

And i don't have a clue what darkfall has to do with anything we discussing here, if you are trying to prove a point you ain't doing it by saying that.
 
Last edited:

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
Reds deserve it, remember they grief ppl. Macro off the counts, and you wont be red.

I understand the concept of going below 0 rep and not be able to get in town. Like I said before, they said they were going to implement a way to gain rep below 0, so im not going to cry over something that just hasnt been implemented yet.

Killing nerds in GY has consequences but not enough. You make it sound like theres no benefit, you get their loot. Now, ur probably not going to get good loot off a kid in meduli gy, but that doesnt mean you should be able to kill him without adequate consequences.

Murderers are considered a playstyle but its one like mining or taming or pve that improves the game for everyone. Its one that improves YOUR experience because its fun. But that kid in meduli just quit the game because you res killed him 30 times and took his 3 piece armor set of full grain full grain kallardian padded armor. Its a play style that you need to account for in order to have a healthy population and you cant just have a healthy population if you let ppl just kill everyone. Again reference, darkfall 1.0 through darkfall 8.0 failures. Shit gaim design. Not going to work.

Btw what do you mean by saying macro off the counts, you mean leaving the client open indefinitely to burn murdercounts? Dude, burning down murdercounts, you are like the people that likes mining AFK, you know what? I fuck those AFK miner's mounts in the ass and i don't even get a MC :)

There is no point on kill a naked noob 30 times, who the fuck is going to farm that much standing just to grief a noob lmao you just saying dumb shit rn.
 

Backyard Employee

Active member
Oct 30, 2021
273
199
43
Btw what do you mean by saying macro off the counts, you mean leaving the client open indefinitely to burn murdercounts? Dude, burning down murdercounts, you are like the people that likes mining AFK, you know what? I fuck those AFK miner's mounts in the ass and i don't even get a MC :)

There is no point on kill a naked noob 30 times, who the fuck is going to farm that much standing just to grief a noob lmao you just saying dumb shit rn.

I mean to be fair he was apart of a guild that walled off tephra and other parts of the game and did exactly that. So I can understand him having a different mentality.

I don't agree with it though.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Albanjo Dravae

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
I mean to be fair he was apart of a guild that walled off tephra and other parts of the game and did exactly that. So I can understand him having a different mentality.

I don't agree with it though.
I can understand different mentalities but being in favor of statloss and murdercount burning? Like... come the fuck on...
 

Evelyn

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2021
511
919
93
Yeah let's all leave our PCs running mortal online 2 afk in ghostmode for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, great game design. Negative IQ take lmao
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Albanjo Dravae

Anthius

Member
Aug 24, 2021
29
35
18
Btw what do you mean by saying macro off the counts, you mean leaving the client open indefinitely to burn murdercounts? Dude, burning down murdercounts, you are like the people that likes mining AFK, you know what? I fuck those AFK miner's mounts in the ass and i don't even get a MC :)

There is no point on kill a naked noob 30 times, who the fuck is going to farm that much standing just to grief a noob lmao you just saying dumb shit rn.
Murder counter burning was fine if it just counted while you were offline. Its really not that big of a deal unless you just kill everyone, which is exactly what it helps prevent. If you kill everyone you should be red for a long time.
 

Anthius

Member
Aug 24, 2021
29
35
18
I mean to be fair he was apart of a guild that walled off tephra and other parts of the game and did exactly that. So I can understand him having a different mentality.

I don't agree with it though.

I play the game mostly for guild wars and territory control. In mo1, part of that was controlling objectives and who got the resources in our territory. Everyone did this, not sure what that tells you about my mentality about this topic.

My mentality is pretty straight forward thou. I want people who kill everyone they run into to be penalized so they think twice about killing a nerd trying to learn the game in the graveyard. This should prevent anyone who mainly in towns from doing so. If you live in a keep or a lawless city then you should be fine. PKs cause a lot of grief and should get some in return. They shouldn't be protected like blue characters.
 

WolfAchilles

Member
Jan 4, 2021
39
34
18
I play the game mostly for guild wars and territory control. In mo1, part of that was controlling objectives and who got the resources in our territory. Everyone did this, not sure what that tells you about my mentality about this topic.

My mentality is pretty straight forward thou. I want people who kill everyone they run into to be penalized so they think twice about killing a nerd trying to learn the game in the graveyard. This should prevent anyone who mainly in towns from doing so. If you live in a keep or a lawless city then you should be fine. PKs cause a lot of grief and should get some in return. They shouldn't be protected like blue characters.
How do you want to solve the problem of big group fights sending you straight to red/negative standing? Diminishing returns on rep loss when incurred in a short period or continuous engagement?
 

Woody

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2021
366
317
63
Yeah let's all leave our PCs running mortal online 2 afk in ghostmode for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, great game design. Negative IQ take lmao

Yea this has been a piece of feedback thats been around for a while now. Either needs to be an offline burn, not reset on fresh mc or a combination of both.

And i don't have a clue what darkfall has to do with anything we discussing here, if you are trying to prove a point you ain't doing it by saying that

Its relevant. DF and MO have fairly similar flagging mechanics but DF had nearly 0 repercussions for murdering everything you saw, which many argue attributed in part to its decline. Wolves need sheep and you cant just make it impossible for sheeps to coexist.
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
Its relevant. DF and MO have fairly similar flagging mechanics but DF had nearly 0 repercussions for murdering everything you saw, which many argue attributed in part to its decline. Wolves need sheep and you cant just make it impossible for sheeps to coexist.

Its not relevant cuz its a different game, different world, dimensions, travelling and so on. You can stablish a very shallow comparison but it won't mean anything. I guess in that case i could compare RUST with mortal, why not.
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
Murder counter burning was fine if it just counted while you were offline. Its really not that big of a deal unless you just kill everyone, which is exactly what it helps prevent. If you kill everyone you should be red for a long time.
When people over extended in MO1 shit escalated in a proportional way, if someone was killing everyone it obviously generated a responce accordingly.

Murdercounts didn't stop those people, or you telling me you didn't use keep priest to resu and spawned with statloss to suffer for your sins.
 

Anthius

Member
Aug 24, 2021
29
35
18
How do you want to solve the problem of big group fights sending you straight to red/negative standing? Diminishing returns on rep loss when incurred in a short period or continuous engagement?

I don't have one, in both systems you can get pretty fucked if you have to fight off a group of 15 -20 ppl and you get counts for even half of them. At least with the old system it would be easier to burn off the counts.. again assuming the counts burned off while you were offline.

Ideally this is done through wardecs / territory control thou. If you are constantly fighting a guild then you should be able to wardec them and not have to wait for them to wardec you back. Ideally there is benefits and consequences for declaring / acceping war decs on both sides but who the fuck knows with this rep system. You should also be able to set the flagging rules for your territories around your keep, if you own a keep that is.
 

Anthius

Member
Aug 24, 2021
29
35
18
When people over extended in MO1 shit escalated in a proportional way, if someone was killing everyone it obviously generated a responce accordingly.

Murdercounts didn't stop those people, or you telling me you didn't use keep priest to resu and spawned with statloss to suffer for your sins.
I rarely used priests, waiting for mana was a waste of a time. Stating up wasnt bad. especially if you had multiple ppl. And your right, murder counts didn't stop them, they just lived with consequences because they weren't all that bad. It just prevented them from spawning, and instantly going back into fights. If someone was blue and went red, they had to hold back for a few days and make sure they didnt get more counts and eventually they would just go blue again. You trying to tell me you didnt know anyone in mo1 that went red after a fight and was blue a few days later?
 

Vulpin

Active member
Nov 29, 2021
157
107
43
IMO you should only be able to receive one murder/standing hit every 10 min. This way you can engage in mass PVP fights without worrying about losing a massive amount of standing and earning a shit ton of murder counts. Now sure you can say that this would allow people to mass murder a bunch of people an barely be punished for it, but IMO if your able to fight even a 1v2 an win or manage not to die after endlessly fighting for 10 mins you kinda earn the right to only lose 1 standing.
 

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
1,757
1,358
113
I think really the biggest question we all have is, what constitutes a murder? I think that we all want ways to kill our enemies without repercussions.

For that reason consenual wardecs seems like an awful idea.

Lawless zones need to come in. Outside the sphere of influence of towns people should be fair game. If someone is hated within khurite territory for example they should go red when in the sphere of influence.

Could even take it a step further and flag entire guilds as criminal if they're taking on a huge amount of murder counts.

You should have strong incentive to flag for a faction on an individual and/or guild level in order to access meaningful (not shitty) rewards. Of course you should be able to kill members of the opposing faction.

War declaration as already stated needs to come back and it needs to be limited to keep bearing guilds or something.


The system that we have now is so just so basic really it doesn't feel like a lot of thought went into it at all. The same is true of MO1's system, it wasn't good.


I agree with Anthius on a lot of points but you can obviously take this logic and use it to justify crazy things.

"War takes territory away from other players, it causes them to lose their dedicated time in the game and fractures relationships. You should have to deal with the consequences of your actions. You should have to siege through multiple guards and everything should be walled off.".

Still I think Anthius hits the nail on the head with points about reds in town and guards protecting them being kind of lame.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Albanjo Dravae

Anabolic Man

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2020
1,131
733
113
Why do you think that? I consider the more punishment the less playstyles available. If you want a blue nave might aswell remove non consensual pvp.

I like the idea of regioalal Murdercounts. Players of a town should play together and defend their town and Kingdom against invading hordes of barbarians or form a group an go on a crusade to cause trouble in another city or Kindom.

What i don´t like is that some cities share the same reputation. Every City should have it´s own reputation and players should not be able to report the murder in another town if thy click spawn homeprist.

Puinishment for murderers need to be hard but we need many ways to prevent murdercounts for the PVP Players.

Factions (CHaos Order) like in Ultima, so the towns have their own factions being in war with the other factions. Being a member of a faction should give you benefits. Faster leveling horses in the stable. Speacial gear that can be obtained for a special currency. This could be a Lionshield or a special horse armor that can only be equipped from faction members.

I think every member of a guild owning a Keep should be in war with every member of a guild owning a Keep and those players should be shown hidden red to each other, so they can´t give murdercounts to each other.

I think that a guild that conquered a city should be able to blacklist various guilds and individual players. It should be possible to declare various players and guilds to be outlaws. This means that they cannot award any murder counts in the territories claimed by the guilds.
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
I rarely used priests, waiting for mana was a waste of a time. Stating up wasnt bad. especially if you had multiple ppl. And your right, murder counts didn't stop them, they just lived with consequences because they weren't all that bad. It just prevented them from spawning, and instantly going back into fights. If someone was blue and went red, they had to hold back for a few days and make sure they didnt get more counts and eventually they would just go blue again. You trying to tell me you didnt know anyone in mo1 that went red after a fight and was blue a few days later?

Yeah, i had blue characters and perma red ones. Basically you are a masochist, you like timesink mechanics for punishment that don't require anything but to be logged or afk macroing. I can't stand that, i need to make good use of my time im not willing to play by that rules but i understand some people want that and idk how someone would even think thats cool but i understand.
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
I think really the biggest question we all have is, what constitutes a murder? I think that we all want ways to kill our enemies without repercussions.

For that reason consenual wardecs seems like an awful idea.

Lawless zones need to come in. Outside the sphere of influence of towns people should be fair game. If someone is hated within khurite territory for example they should go red when in the sphere of influence.

Could even take it a step further and flag entire guilds as criminal if they're taking on a huge amount of murder counts.

You should have strong incentive to flag for a faction on an individual and/or guild level in order to access meaningful (not shitty) rewards. Of course you should be able to kill members of the opposing faction.

War declaration as already stated needs to come back and it needs to be limited to keep bearing guilds or something.


The system that we have now is so just so basic really it doesn't feel like a lot of thought went into it at all. The same is true of MO1's system, it wasn't good.


I agree with Anthius on a lot of points but you can obviously take this logic and use it to justify crazy things.

"War takes territory away from other players, it causes them to lose their dedicated time in the game and fractures relationships. You should have to deal with the consequences of your actions. You should have to siege through multiple guards and everything should be walled off.".

Still I think Anthius hits the nail on the head with points about reds in town and guards protecting them being kind of lame.

Hi Teknique long time no see.

Yeah i like what you are saying.

Well non consensual wardecs need to have mechanics that will help guilds to stop em or have alternatives" otherwise its a zerg competition like it was in MO1 prior to wardec revamp, it used to be that when the wardecs were non-consensual a group would push out of the town or even the game to another group, and you don't want that to happen, maybe yeah contesting a town and so on but there has to be a lot of mechanics supporting that system.

I think the lawless zones should be anything that its not in the domain of the sight of factions (and players). I suggested an alive player report system because brings law to the wilderness but also brings the need to stay alive and not to just die and give a murdercount, the very fact that you can just die and give a murdercount defeats the purpose of the game.

With an alive player report system i can even imagine town bounties to be a thing.

Then yeah, players not only need an incentive for making justice for their town they also need the town to support them this is absolutly true and im not talking about KOS town list and carebear shit like that, talking about player involvement.

I don't really think Anthius is hitting any nail by wanting to penalize murderers with statloss. Look the standing system right now, primitive as it is at least has the very fundations of certain degree of interaction with the enviroment to restore standing. So right now its not like reds don't have any punishment whatsoever and its absolutly wrong they enter the city, murderers have to farm standing to enter a city, its not free (and if you ask me its a really high price to pay). So as a murderer right now you are actually paying in time and effort for accessing a town its really straight forward if you ask me.

My initial suggestion was to make player interaction regarding the law system to encourage players to stay alive and report criminals, this generates another degree of player involvement and in the right direction. Giving tools for the ones that work for a town instead of punishing the criminals with dumbass timesink mechanics.


I like the idea of regioalal Murdercounts. Players of a town should play together and defend their town and Kingdom against invading hordes of barbarians or form a group an go on a crusade to cause trouble in another city or Kindom.

What i don´t like is that some cities share the same reputation. Every City should have it´s own reputation and players should not be able to report the murder in another town if thy click spawn homeprist.

Puinishment for murderers need to be hard but we need many ways to prevent murdercounts for the PVP Players.

Factions (CHaos Order) like in Ultima, so the towns have their own factions being in war with the other factions. Being a member of a faction should give you benefits. Faster leveling horses in the stable. Speacial gear that can be obtained for a special currency. This could be a Lionshield or a special horse armor that can only be equipped from faction members.

I think every member of a guild owning a Keep should be in war with every member of a guild owning a Keep and those players should be shown hidden red to each other, so they can´t give murdercounts to each other.

I think that a guild that conquered a city should be able to blacklist various guilds and individual players. It should be possible to declare various players and guilds to be outlaws. This means that they cannot award any murder counts in the territories claimed by the guilds.


Very true, you want the law to be made by players and not a keep owning guild with guards KOS lists, thats just afk playing the game, is flexing for you.

Yeah some years ago i made an extensive thread in MO1 forum suggesting a reputation system based on cities-player reputation. The general idea was that each town had their own law system so criminals wouldn't be so penalized with an unified law system.

Which is happening rn, with only 2 factions you get penalized by several cities at the time, which is not necesarilly wrong but hey there has to be more ways to get standing up if that the case.

I'd prefer for each town to have their own law system, their own criminals archive" and i can see how an alive player report system could work towards that aswell. Imagine a player that lives near Meduli witnesses criminal actions and he manages to stay alive and report those actions in Meduli, its only fair that the Meduli town aknowledges that report and that it only affects that region.

Continuing with the thread suggestion. Its easy, if theres people that witnessed criminal actions in the wilderness and they manage to report it is what it is. Then its up for the criminal to make sure he/she ain't reported as it is up to the witness to get into town, now theres a lot of things that could happen in-between and thats the beauty of it.

I allways liked the realistic approach of the game, in terms of diegesis. Lets say you are hunting pigs in Meduli and you see a shady veela watching at you, someone you've never seen. I rather get to the conclussion this dude is a criminal by myself instead of a sign on hes forehead saying THIS MOFO IS CRIMINAL RUN. And its precisely how it is right now, its beautifull cuz you are making the player get involved in the world, to remember that veela.

Now its up to SV to make new players to absolutly understand hows the criminal system, so people ain't over confident in certain situations.

I don't understand how people get so upset about not seeing a red-nickname when watching a murderer, is it nostalgia? Maybe they want to have a red nickname for feeling special, wouldn't know.

Now i don't support guards KOS list because i believe in what players do for their region instead of NPCs. I do agree that towns should give the players tools for doing justice without getting murdercounts, but it has to be well designed cuz u don't want to empower a side too much either.
 
Last edited:

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
I wonder if we can expect any changes for the standing system and the penalties for group fighting, since its so god damn easy to give murdercounts.

I'd like to see a workaround these issues b4 release but i doubt SV is contemplating a rework or at least a fix to these issues.