Standing System

[Albanjo Dravae]

I wanna talk about the current standing system, its been definitely an improvement since the previous murdercount system that was really unforgiving towards certain playstyles.

Now for the sake of argument im going to explain how i think the standing system works.

1. So, basically if you are seen by any guard while being grey you will automatically lose standing with that faction.

This is perfect because you wanna preserve the cities from being a complete criminal shitshow like it used to be, killing horses left and right without any punishment and so on, i understand that this model will also encourage the thievery mechanics that will eventually be added and i think right now its a pragmatic choise.

2. You lose standing when a blue player that has been damaged and/or killed by you resurrects in a (blue) priest.

I personally consider this is not effective mechanic since there are playstyles that are forced to live in the wilderness and never ment to access vendors/bank unless you farm standing either by travelling and doing some "quests" or killing a few type of creatures.

Heres why i think its not effective, basically because it works as a tradeoff, you are giving away reputation per blue kill at expense of future time investment into standing farming.

So whats up here, is this tradeoff worth? it is supposed to be worth?

Is it worth killing any random blue for what is carrying? Most of the time its not, because people that actually transport items take certain degree of measures to prevent bad scenarios, people group up for safety.

You can't know if a blue kill its worth or not, cuz its a gamble a naked could be carrying hundreds of gold as it could be butt naked, this gamble is not worth considering the time investment you gotta do to recover that standing point.


So, i suggest that the bet is raised. How?

Do not automate standing loss when a blue respawns in a priest. Why?

Cuz you want to encourage people to do several things, you wanna encourage people to understand the safety of groups, you want to encourage people to fight, escape and stay alive not to just die and give a murdercount cuz shit and giggles.
Thats what people does, if you hit em and u can't kill em they can just call a friend to gank em and give u the MC anyways, not everyone does this but many do and this is bypassing the "fairness" mechanic.

What can you do to raise the bets, basically make an alive player criminal report system.

What will this do? Lets say you are hunting outside with a friend and u get jumped and someone kills your friend, now if you manage to stay alive and reach the safezone of a city that player that witnessed this criminal action should be able to talk to a town NPC and report these criminal actions, and give a murdercount to the greys he saw kill hes friend.

This way you are actually encouraging the affected (attacked) players to travel, escape, stay alive and report these actions. And not to just die for giving a murdercount. You are encouraging players to be an active asset of the towns law enforcement.

I allways liked many of Mortal's features that involved certain degree of diegetic content, the freedom of choise above mechanic conditioning the true and real SANDBOX core of Mortal.

By allowing blue players that have been killed to just spawn and give murdercounts you are not only conditioning playstyles but you are also forcing mechanics upon free-will. Give the chance to players for real involvement and not just cause and consequence.

 

[Anthius]

i think they should just bring back stat loss. afk

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

i think they should just bring back stat loss. afk

Why do you think that? I consider the more punishment the less playstyles available. If you want a blue nave might aswell remove non consensual pvp.

 

[Anthius]

If you want a blue nave might aswell remove non concensual pvp.

Why would you say something so silly and try and pass it off like its a logical thought. Was there non concensual pvp in mo1? I seem to remember many years of pvp in mo1.

The higher end pvpers are simply too effective at killing ppl. If there is nothing in the game to slow them down, they will simply grief ppl out of the game too fast. Stat loss doesnt have to be permenant.. it could be timed.. like a debuff to avoid 10 ppl having to punch you for stats. There needs to be something. I kill who ever I can, for how ever long i can and have had no consequences. It's just bad for the game. Takes me 10 seconds to grab a bag of gear and regs from the bank and get back in the fight or start fighting again.

The goal of the devs should not be to make Mass PKing easy for everyone. It should be to encourage guild war declarations and faction pvp. Where everyone is orange and flagged for pvp. This shit where 15 PKs can safely sit in town because they have positive rep but 1000 murders until they choose an easy target is fucking trash. Reds are reds, they should show red so everyone knows it, they should not be allowed in towns and when they die they should get stat loss so they cant just res, grab a steel spear and spam someone down in 10 seconds to which their only consequence is having to run a fucking piece of paper from MK to Toxai in 2 minutes.

 

[oykd]

farming risars is punishment enaugh!

 

[Anthius]

farming risars is punishment enaugh!

no it isnt. you get metal, gold , clade xp and rep. Its 4 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Rorry]

farming risars is punishment enaugh!

Can't even farm risars for standing anymore, in case you didn't know.

 

[oykd]

Can't even farm risars for standing anymore, in case you didn't know.

cool been out for a while ty

 

[Toerin]

I wanna talk about the current standing system, its been definitely an improvement since the previous murdercount system that was really unforgiving towards certain playstyles.

Now for the sake of argument im going to explain how i think the standing system works.

1. So, basically if you are seen by any guard while being grey you will automatically lose standing with that faction.

This is perfect because you wanna preserve the cities from being a complete criminal shitshow like it used to be, killing horses left and right without any punishment and so on, i understand that this model will also encourage the thievery mechanics that will eventually be added and i think right now its a pragmatic choise.

2. You lose standing when a blue player that has been damaged and/or killed by you resurrects in a (blue) priest.

I personally consider this is not effective mechanic since there are playstyles that are forced to live in the wilderness and never ment to access vendors/bank unless you farm standing either by travelling and doing some "quests" or killing a few type of creatures.

Heres why i think its not effective, basically because it works as a tradeoff, you are giving away reputation per blue kill at expense of future time investment into standing farming.

So whats up here, is this tradeoff worth? it is supposed to be worth?

Is it worth killing any random blue for what is carrying? Most of the time its not, because people that actually transport items take certain degree of measures to prevent bad scenarios, people group up for safety.

You can't know if a blue kill its worth or not, cuz its a gamble a naked could be carrying hundreds of gold as it could be butt naked, this gamble is not worth considering the time investment you gotta do to recover that standing point.


So, i suggest that the bet is raised. How?

Do not automate standing loss when a blue respawns in a priest. Why?

Cuz you want to encourage people to do several things, you wanna encourage people to understand the safety of groups, you want to encourage people to fight, escape and stay alive not to just die and give a murdercount cuz shit and giggles.
Thats what people does, if you hit em and u can't kill em they can just call a friend to gank em and give u the MC anyways, not everyone does this but many do and this is bypassing the "fairness" mechanic.

What can you do to raise the bets, basically make an alive player criminal report system.

What will this do? Lets say you are hunting outside with a friend and u get jumped and someone kills your friend, now if you manage to stay alive and reach the safezone of a city that player that witnessed this criminal action should be able to talk to a town NPC and report these criminal actions, and give a murdercount to the greys he saw kill hes friend.

This way you are actually encouraging the affected (attacked) players to travel, escape, stay alive and report these actions. And not to just die for giving a murdercount. You are encouraging players to be an active asset of the towns law enforcement.

I allways liked many of Mortal's features that involved certain degree of diegetic content, the freedom of choise above mechanic conditioning the true and real SANDBOX core of Mortal.

By allowing blue players that have been killed to just spawn and give murdercounts you are not only conditioning playstyles but you are also forcing mechanics upon free-will. Give the chance to players for real involvement and not just cause and consequence.

This sounds great. I love the idea. The problem may be in figuring out the programming for this. How does a player who had witnessed a murder report this crime to a guard? They can’t do it by player name or griefers I’m sure would take advantage of that system by just reporting players who didn’t do anything. It’d probably have to be implemented similar to how dead blues report crimes now with the game knowing who attacked them and allowing the player to check a box to report or not. I could see something like a radius around each player that when someone attacks someone else inside it that radius it logs the players name and gives them the ability to check that box. But that could get overwhelming when you show up to a guard and 50 names pop up because on the way there you passed a group sparring with one another or spent some time in a graveyard killing walkers with people. Then it’s up to the persons memory to accuse the right persons of that crime. Then you’d need a system that checks to see if that person had killed someone. Something similar to Instagrams post reporting system. So you’d need to have every players actions logged so that check system could cross reference both the accused and accusers logs to see if they match up. Im just not sure if they’re be able to have the game run like that without killing the server. Or the money to get that kind of code rehaul done before the release next month. Still it’d be really fun trying to escape.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Why would you say something so silly and try and pass it off like its a logical thought. Was there non concensual pvp in mo1? I seem to remember many years of pvp in mo1.

The higher end pvpers are simply too effective at killing ppl. If there is nothing in the game to slow them down, they will simply grief ppl out of the game too fast. Stat loss doesnt have to be permenant.. it could be timed.. like a debuff to avoid 10 ppl having to punch you for stats. There needs to be something. I kill who ever I can, for how ever long i can and have had no consequences. It's just bad for the game. Takes me 10 seconds to grab a bag of gear and regs from the bank and get back in the fight or start fighting again.

The goal of the devs should not be to make Mass PKing easy for everyone. It should be to encourage guild war declarations and faction pvp. Where everyone is orange and flagged for pvp. This shit where 15 PKs can safely sit in town because they have positive rep but 1000 murders until they choose an easy target is fucking trash. Reds are reds, they should show red so everyone knows it, they should not be allowed in towns and when they die they should get stat loss so they cant just res, grab a steel spear and spam someone down in 10 seconds to which their only consequence is having to run a fucking piece of paper from MK to Toxai in 2 minutes.

Because i personally consider that the old school punishment systems for criminal actions are completly off and they are overall based on timesink mechanics with a much higher punishment than the actual rewards (generally), like so unbalanced that if you don't have the means (time/resources/people) you can't even consider that playstyle.

In MO1 mechanics to bypass the criminal punishment system was TC, but in MO2 theres almost no mechanics (except housing but to a certain degree) that will allow players to excersize diversity in their playstyles (for example people that can't access towns).

I agree there has to be mechanics to balance the effectivity of players being criminals and im not saying there shouldn't be any punishments. Then again, being perma negative standing ain't punishment enough? I mean, can't access a town, banks, vendors, broker, extraction tables and so on. Most of the core mechanics in the game... (well yeah and theres shitty lawless towns)

Btw killing reds has no consequences at all, you can (and people does) camp down red priests and theres absolutly nothing you can do except get to another town (cuz only towns have red priests and this is absolutly ridiculous) or log off. If that ain't unfair idk what is.

The goal of devs should be to create meaningfull content based on and for player interaction, not the dumbass timesink mechanics that condition and ruin the players free will to excersize a playstyle and go along with it. If you are against that you might aswell vouch for the elimination of non-consensual pvp because its basically what you are promoting. And im not saying thats wrong tho, i just don't think its ment for Mortal's universe.

This sounds great. I love the idea. The problem may be in figuring out the programming for this. How does a player who had witnessed a murder report this crime to a guard? They can’t do it by player name or griefers I’m sure would take advantage of that system by just reporting players who didn’t do anything. It’d probably have to be implemented similar to how dead blues report crimes now with the game knowing who attacked them and allowing the player to check a box to report or not. I could see something like a radius around each player that when someone attacks someone else inside it that radius it logs the players name and gives them the ability to check that box. But that could get overwhelming when you show up to a guard and 50 names pop up because on the way there you passed a group sparring with one another or spent some time in a graveyard killing walkers with people. Then it’s up to the persons memory to accuse the right persons of that crime. Then you’d need a system that checks to see if that person had killed someone. Something similar to Instagrams post reporting system. So you’d need to have every players actions logged so that check system could cross reference both the accused and accusers logs to see if they match up. Im just not sure if they’re be able to have the game run like that without killing the server. Or the money to get that kind of code rehaul done before the release next month. Still it’d be really fun trying to escape.

I think the implementing of this requires nothing but some brainstorming to be honest, i believe from what NPC's can currently do the infrastructure is already there.
Each player has an internal ID, each NPC does aswell. The very same way a guard automatically lowers standing when seeing a criminal could be used for players.

Of course you HAVE to understand the impact of such mechanic and prevent the exploiting and abusive scenarios from the design.

I could see something like a radius around each player that when someone attacks someone else inside it that radius it logs the players name and gives them the ability to check that box. But that could get overwhelming when you show up to a guard and 50 names pop up because on the way there you passed a group sparring with one another or spent some time in a graveyard killing walkers with people.Then it’s up to the persons memory to accuse the right persons of that crime.

I love this, what a better way for getting a player involved in the situation, to actually remember whos a criminal and whos not, its perfect. I'd make the witness" status to work at a certain distance and after targetting the criminal (or something along the lines), not by just beeing there (or maybe yes)

Then you’d need a system that checks to see if that person had killed someone.

I don't think its necessary to discriminate types of criminal actions, a criminal could be reported by as many witnesses as possible yet only punished once for the crime. And who knows if the system is well implemented enough you can even introduce "credibility" and other interesting mechanics to spice shit up.

So you’d need to have every players actions logged so that check system could cross reference both the accused and accusers logs to see if they match up. Im just not sure if they’re be able to have the game run like that without killing the server. Or the money to get that kind of code rehaul done before the release next month. Still it’d be really fun trying to escape.

Not really, just log criminal status from a player and witnesses. Its something guards do already.



And here we are only talking about the mechanics, but imagine the whole new spectrum of players activities around these mechanics, imagine negociating with witnesses and bribing so they won't report your criminal action.

 

[Tzone]

Stat loss for being red would prob kill the game for me and make me quit.

Hated how they empowered kill stealers in BDO and punished OW PvP. I think it would just open up blue player grieving people out of their farm. Many times In BDO I would offer a duel to a person who just came to my farm for the spot and they would refuse. If I killed them and went red they would call 10 people to kill me.

People compete over resources which drives PvP. Dying to another person to punish them shouldnt be a thing.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Stat loss for being red would prob kill the game for me and make me quit.

Hated how they empowered kill stealers in BDO and punished OW PvP. I think it would just open up blue player grieving people out of their farm. Many times In BDO I would offer a duel to a person who just came to my farm for the spot and they would refuse. If I killed them and went red they would call 10 people to kill me.

People compete over resources which drives PvP. Dying to another person to punish them shouldnt be a thing.

Statloss and MC system were probably the absolute worst features MO1 had, imagine having to spend 1h stating up after ress, imagine stating up CON INT or PSY after death. Its more fun to watch the game being uninstalled.

And yeah, i think you are absolutly right. I even consider that killing someone in the wild should be free game and have no punishment at all, but then again im not against giving blue players certain tools and gain something by staying alive and not just die to give a murdercount.

Killed 2 KOTO dudes at bandits the other day, they had no awareness didn't look around fought bandits till they had 5 hp instead of realizing i was watching them, i looted them kited 2 more. And also got 2 murdercounts, for being a criminal yes but they could have prevented that situation since they outnumbered me. Instead of punishing people, encourage the "victims" to get involved, manage awareness, work as a team, etc.

Some people get really frustrated about this? Well yeah, obviously. Haven is a safezone tutorial that teaches nothing about the nature of player behavior outside haven, and for some of them its hitting a brick wall. Maybe SV needs to start thinking on more effective ways to get people involved and understand the nature of the world.

 

[For Sure]

The rep system is ass and they revamped everything a month prior to launch. They really don't know how to fix the game. They think they "nerfed' mounted when they actually didn't even touch it in all reality lol. These devs just don't have a brain on them my man accept it.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

The rep system is ass and they revamped everything a month prior to launch. They really don't know how to fix the game. They think they "nerfed' mounted when they actually didn't even touch it in all reality lol. These devs just don't have a brain on them my man accept it.

Can't argue with that

 

[Anthius]

Because i personally consider that the old school punishment systems for criminal actions are completly off and they are overall based on timesink mechanics with a much higher punishment than the actual rewards (generally), like so unbalanced that if you don't have the means (time/resources/people) you can't even consider that playstyle.

In MO1 mechanics to bypass the criminal punishment system was TC, but in MO2 theres almost no mechanics (except housing but to a certain degree) that will allow players to excersize diversity in their playstyles (for example people that can't access towns).

I agree there has to be mechanics to balance the effectivity of players being criminals and im not saying there shouldn't be any punishments. Then again, being perma negative standing ain't punishment enough? I mean, can't access a town, banks, vendors, broker, extraction tables and so on. Most of the core mechanics in the game... (well yeah and theres shitty lawless towns)

Btw killing reds has no consequences at all, you can (and people does) camp down red priests and theres absolutly nothing you can do except get to another town (cuz only towns have red priests and this is absolutly ridiculous) or log off. If that ain't unfair idk what is.

The goal of devs should be to create meaningfull content based on and for player interaction, not the dumbass timesink mechanics that condition and ruin the players free will to excersize a playstyle and go along with it. If you are against that you might aswell vouch for the elimination of non-consensual pvp because its basically what you are promoting. And im not saying thats wrong tho, i just don't think its ment for Mortal's universe.

Being perma negative standing isnt a thing. I've macroed off 100s of counts. I realize that most ppl are lazy and if something is going to take longer than a day then they just consider it impossible. In mo1 you could always macro off counts. If you go that deep red, and then your mad because its going to be a while before u can go back to town and benefit from the normal players than thats your problem. Being PK isnt a playstyle like playing a mage or warrior in wow. You're a parasite to normal players. You prevent them from doing what they want to do, whether it be tame, transport, pve what ever. PKs are bad for the game if there isnt anything to keep them in check. Go ahead and reference any of the 10 darkfall servers. I know everyone wants to be the pk but it doesnt work when there is no consequences. I'm sure there is a perfect medium for punishment. Something that doesnt fuck the PK too hard but still harsh enough for the normal players to feel like its adequate. BUT i think its always better to be heavy handed on PKs because too many of them will just drive ppl away too fast.

Regardless. currently this rep system is not working. You should not be able to have 1000 murders and sit in town and no one know that you are a murderer and no one be allowed to attack you. At very least people should see that you are red.

"Killing reds does not have a consequence" is kind of bullshit too. First of all, if you kill someone in this game, your on their alliances KOS list. Then you have to deal with 200 koto sitting in meduli waiting for u to go pick some seaweed. And attacking reds currently makes u turn criminal so u cant go to town. If you attack a red, the red is clearly a pvper, there shouldnt be a problem with that and the red sure as fuck shouldnt be considered some sort of victim. If you dont want ppl to be able to attack you, then dont go red. Unfortunately the alternative is war decs and factions and they are not fully implemented.. but reds shouldnt be considered a play style like a normal tamer or miner. Be honest here, the purpose of consequences for reds is so good pvpers cant or wont want to just sit in meduli graveyard killing nerds trying to figure out of the right parry.

 

[Vulpin]

My biggest issues with the standing system right now is how if you go below 0 standing your basically fucked and forced to reroll sense there no way to get standing without going into a town to get parcels, and the fact that you lose standing if guards attack you. It one thing to lose standing if you kill a player or their pet, but we all should know the scummy trick people pull were they have a friend tie with 1-2 Gold on them, than you loot the gold and go gray an the guards kill you but now there a gray bag in town with a stolen item that new players will loot not realizing what they're doing than boom death by guards and they lose stand because of the old stole item in gray bag trick.

Also as it stands Clade XP servers zero purpose in the game once you hit max Clade gift level, so IMO the devs should make it so if your clade level is maxed an you earn say 10-20k more clade XP your standing in the region your in should increase by 1. Just saying it would bring a reason to care about clade XP once you max out your clade gifts and help add more ways to keep in good standings.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Being perma negative standing isnt a thing. I've macroed off 100s of counts. I realize that most ppl are lazy and if something is going to take longer than a day then they just consider it impossible. In mo1 you could always macro off counts. If you go that deep red, and then your mad because its going to be a while before u can go back to town and benefit from the normal players than thats your problem. Being PK isnt a playstyle like playing a mage or warrior in wow. You're a parasite to normal players. You prevent them from doing what they want to do, whether it be tame, transport, pve what ever. PKs are bad for the game if there isnt anything to keep them in check. Go ahead and reference any of the 10 darkfall servers. I know everyone wants to be the pk but it doesnt work when there is no consequences. I'm sure there is a perfect medium for punishment. Something that doesnt fuck the PK too hard but still harsh enough for the normal players to feel like its adequate. BUT i think its always better to be heavy handed on PKs because too many of them will just drive ppl away too fast.

Regardless. currently this rep system is not working. You should not be able to have 1000 murders and sit in town and no one know that you are a murderer and no one be allowed to attack you. At very least people should see that you are red.

Idk what macroing you are refering to, maybe im unaware of a mechanic that lets you macro something to get your standing up? Or are you talking about burning murdercounts? Cuz murdercounts not a thing anymore, the only thing that matters is standing.

Yeah you can call PKs parasites or whatever u want, the game allows that because its what is ment to have, otherwise it wouldn't allow non-consensual pvp. I fail to see whats so terrible about that, its the very core of Mortal that everything is ephemeral can't expect to be wearing that weapon till it goes 1% dura, can't expect to have one horse forever its the unforgiving nature of the game, you gain and you lose.
If certain players can't handle loss then perhaps its not a game thats directed for that public, hell i know some people prefer games that you won't drop loot, lets say TESO or WOW why not, not the same as mortal but at least you won't drop your loot.

PKs are good for the game, they have continued to fuel conflict during all the years Mortal 1 was out. Bad development decisions caused severe population losses back in the day and i remember this because i was currently playing on MO1 during steam release and it was a shitshow.

I see this missguided view about whos to blame for what, and i gotta say people just play and if theres something wrong its a design problem, you can't be blaming players for playing a game, i mean for real?

Then you expect the game mechanics to be absolutly literal black and white, if someone is a criminal should have a sign in hes forehead saying CRIMINAL. You know what? I hate that literal shit, i enjoy when theres things to figure out when i have to use my brain to understand shit, when i have to judge a person in order to trust or not.

So instead of people assessing their own conclusions, getting involved with the game and other players you want the game mechanics to do everything for you. Might aswell play a solo game if thats what you want so badly, or maybe a coop game.

I like whats not said, whats hidden, whats complex, what requires personal and collective judgement and not literal written in stone poor ass mechanics, that gets old fast.

When i was drowning AFK players in Meduli i saw many many involved people, involved with the town, with their citizens, they would defend the AFKs and also stay in the bank of the town making sure everyone knew what i was doing, and that they should be aware of me. What a better thing can you ask and expect from players, to do something by their own free will and get involved in something the game its not forcing them to do.

The reputation system doesn't work because blues can respawn in a priest and give murdercounts (standing loss). Players should know and discover whos a dangerous player and who to be carefull with, not a sign that says "this dude is a criminal run the opposite way".

"Killing reds does not have a consequence" is kind of bullshit too. First of all, if you kill someone in this game, your on their alliances KOS list. Then you have to deal with 200 koto sitting in meduli waiting for u to go pick some seaweed. And attacking reds currently makes u turn criminal so u cant go to town. If you attack a red, the red is clearly a pvper, there shouldnt be a problem with that and the red sure as fuck shouldnt be considered some sort of victim. If you dont want ppl to be able to attack you, then dont go red. Unfortunately the alternative is war decs and factions and they are not fully implemented.. but reds shouldnt be considered a play style like a normal tamer or miner. Be honest here, the purpose of consequences for reds is so good pvpers cant or wont want to just sit in meduli graveyard killing nerds trying to figure out of the right parry.

You can spawn kill reds at red priest, and you won't have any consequence whatsoever, some members of CAREBEAR were spawn killing me today as an example.

So basically you are mad because reds are let into town despite the massive effort they have to do to keep the standing high enough to enter that town, you want the reds not to be able to get into town at all. Sorry for the breaking news theres no mechanics to support that type of game, that happens you will lose 80% of the population and only the PVE nerds gonna be playing.

You are mad because blue guilds can't KOS their KOS list roflmao, then go farm standing and get the kills.

Killing nerds in the GY has consequences for the red people, they will lose standing. And if they go below 0 its GG, can't enter those towns. I fail to see how is this so hard to understand.

Murderers should and are considered a playstyle i don't see anything wrong with it, if you trying to find some cheap ass moral excuse u won't find it in Mortal's design.
Sadly i consider theres too much punishment for that playstyle and i think right now its a missguided attempt to balance conflict, the best thing it could happen to mortal is to accept that PVP in the wilderness should be free game. Let the punishment relay on players, let the world be ruled by players and not npcs, let the order be made by players and not mechanics...

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

My biggest issues with the standing system right now is how if you go below 0 standing your basically fucked and forced to reroll sense there no way to get standing without going into a town to get parcels, and the fact that you lose standing if guards attack you. It one thing to lose standing if you kill a player or their pet, but we all should know the scummy trick people pull were they have a friend tie with 1-2 Gold on them, than you loot the gold and go gray an the guards kill you but now there a gray bag in town with a stolen item that new players will loot not realizing what they're doing than boom death by guards and they lose stand because of the old stole item in gray bag trick.

Also as it stands Clade XP servers zero purpose in the game once you hit max Clade gift level, so IMO the devs should make it so if your clade level is maxed an you earn say 10-20k more clade XP your standing in the region your in should increase by 1. Just saying it would bring a reason to care about clade XP once you max out your clade gifts and help add more ways to keep in good standings.

I know right? Completly flawed design, i got lucky cuz i've had a bunch of standing with all tribes for months but i see my friends having to deal with the starting 5 standing points and i can't stop feeling sorry for them, for having to do those timesink mechanics or worst yet having to reroll a completly new character.

If that ain't wrong idk wtf is.

I like that idea about clade points, definitely by slaying zombies you are actually helping and contributing with your town, its only fair you get positive standing.

Saddly i keep seeing the same patterns than MO1, unrelated mechanics that reach a point were they don't make sense anymore. The lack of design in such a core piece of content like the standing system and so close to release makes me lose faith a little bit.

 

[Backyard Employee]

The biggest thing people need to realize is this:

New players, innocent players, and people who dislike being PK'd will always get griefed & PK'd no matter what system is in place. Unless you remove the ability to PvP outside of towns and inside of towns, it'll never stop; and then when PvP is gone those same players will find ways to grief them without using damage via PvP.

This system hurts people who want to PvP, and it is used to punished people you don't like.

It's like I explained to my friend last night. Imagine you're in a graveyard (since a lot of people like to bring up graveyard griefing) and you're killing zombies to make an extra bit of gold.

3 players go into the graveyard and are going to attack you. You know this given that it's a guild that doesn't like you. You have 3 options.

1. Run
2. Attack First
3. Wait until you're attacked

Option one is the neutral option in which no loss has occurred on either side, but you're being displaced due to players; and everytime a player or players come to fight you - running isn't always an option.

If you attack first, you have an advantage. In this hypothetical scenario you attack all three of them first; win or lose you now run the risk of losing three reputation. If they win - they can just suicide and give you murder counts and rep loss. If they lose, they'll just report it once they've respawned. You've now lost three reputation and gained three murder counts for engaging these players.

If you wait until they attack, you now can freely defend yourself; but since all three hit you first you now are at an immense disadvantage and die. You report each player and they each only lose 1 reputation and gain 1 murder count. Your death has had less impact on them then if they had died to you. How is the system treating this player fairly in any capacity?

Here is another hypothetical (and real) situation presented by @Evelyn which illustrates the systems flaws perfectly:

You and your guild are in a dungeon and fighting the mobs, clearing it out; when you realize there is a group of hostile players behind you. The smart group would finish up the mobs near them and attack on first sight to gain the upperhand. In this situation they do, and they lose reputation and gain murdercounts because of it even though (IN REALITY) they weren't the aggressors. They were simply minding their business in the dungeon but had knew players were coming to kill them - and even though they properly defended themselves they've now lost out on town access.

THIS ISN'T RED PLAYER / PK PLAYER BEHAVIOR!

These are normal players simply playing and being abused by a system that's meant to protect them.

The other big issues with the system is the fact that there is only one way to raise reputation, the NPC to raise reputation is never located outside of town and always inside of town making it impossible to come back in, and the reputation gains / caps are horrible.

I'm not arguing PvE should been the way to PvP more players, but having it tied to things like turning heads in (of PvE mobs or other murderers / criminals), rings, fingers, material, hell even gold to improve your reputation is incredibly lore friendly and has an impact on the player who PvP'd.

Why is it wrong if a player has to pay gold or donate materials to a town to gain rep? He's losing gold and mats just to play in the town - that is an equal trade for his actions in my eyes. The only people who'd probably disagree are the ones getting killed.


So what about them? The players getting killed? Nine times out of ten these players are people who wander outside of town, ill-prepared, ill-geared, and ALONE. The players that end up effected by this are players who go out into a dangerous world with blinking neon signs around them saying "HEY! I'M AN EASY TARGET! COME HIT ME!" You can't be upset at players for capitalizing on such a thing. How do we fix this?

I'll provide a few solutions that are spit balled and not saying that any of them would work or rectify the issue, just some potentials to try:

• Haven Flag - Give players who just left Haven a flag of immunity. Just like in the original MO, allow players to be invulnerable to PvP encounters for a set of in-game time. Just don't allow them to loot player loot bags other then there own, engage in PvP, cast magic on others, or push others. This would help players get another step into the world without being bodied horribly and let them get their bearings. Haven still doesn't prepare people for the real game because Haven lacks any form of PvP training. HAVEN NEEDS AN ARENA.
• Danger Prompts - When a player spawns into the game world (the actual one) for the first one, give a big DISCLAIMER like in the tutorials for a final WARNING that the world is dangerous and filled with players who purposely go out of their way to kill others. THIS NEEDS TO BE A THING REGARDLESS. Many players really do not realize players in the game kill for fun.
• Guild Boards - Bring back guild boards. Both in Haven and in actual cities. Allow players to browse guilds to join. Allow guilds to create recruitment posts with a description and requirement. Have options for guilds to set if they can join freely or need to apply. Players need guilds fostering them to stay. Discord & Forums are not enough. Some players will never touch either.
• Starter Kits - Call me a carebear, I don't really care. But players should be given a starter kit after they leave. If anyone remembers the semi-revamped MO1 tutorial exit when you could choose a 'profession' which gave you things like money, regs, books, weapons, armor, etc. Players need this to. Give players some more starting money, some extra weapons, some vendor armor, etc. Taking 6 things with you off Haven and having a gold value of 10 is fine - but players need some extra help starting. Some people will die and lose everything, then literally have nothing left. Seen it plenty already.
• Town Tasks - Build something into this reputation NPC in which players can perform tasks around the town that are specific to that town. For example I'm in MK, so have new players pick Malus Fruit, Cotton, Chop Wood, Mine Granum, Butcher Pigs and Turn in specific materials for reputation and money. It doesn't have to be much - but allow players to fill Town / NPC made buy orders that aren't player driven to contribute to their standings in town. Don't make it lucrative, just enough to get back on their feet if need be.

Just some ideas but yeah.

 

[Anthius]

You can spawn kill reds at red priest, and you won't have any consequence whatsoever, some members of CAREBEAR were spawn killing me today as an example.

So basically you are mad because reds are let into town despite the massive effort they have to do to keep the standing high enough to enter that town, you want the reds not to be able to get into town at all. Sorry for the breaking news theres no mechanics to support that type of game, that happens you will lose 80% of the population and only the PVE nerds gonna be playing.

You are mad because blue guilds can't KOS their KOS list roflmao, then go farm standing and get the kills.

Killing nerds in the GY has consequences for the red people, they will lose standing. And if they go below 0 its GG, can't enter those towns. I fail to see how is this so hard to understand.

Murderers should and are considered a playstyle i don't see anything wrong with it, if you trying to find some cheap ass moral excuse u won't find it in Mortal's design.
Sadly i consider theres too much punishment for that playstyle and i think right now its a missguided attempt to balance conflict, the best thing it could happen to mortal is to accept that PVP in the wilderness should be free game. Let the punishment relay on players, let the world be ruled by players and not npcs, let the order be made by players and not mechanics...

Reds deserve it, remember they grief ppl. Macro off the counts, and you wont be red.

I understand the concept of going below 0 rep and not be able to get in town. Like I said before, they said they were going to implement a way to gain rep below 0, so im not going to cry over something that just hasnt been implemented yet.

Killing nerds in GY has consequences but not enough. You make it sound like theres no benefit, you get their loot. Now, ur probably not going to get good loot off a kid in meduli gy, but that doesnt mean you should be able to kill him without adequate consequences.

Murderers are considered a playstyle but its one like mining or taming or pve that improves the game for everyone. Its one that improves YOUR experience because its fun. But that kid in meduli just quit the game because you res killed him 30 times and took his 3 piece armor set of full grain full grain kallardian padded armor. Its a play style that you need to account for in order to have a healthy population and you cant just have a healthy population if you let ppl just kill everyone. Again reference, darkfall 1.0 through darkfall 8.0 failures. Shit gaim design. Not going to work.