If you don't like the rep system you can live in lawless camps or guild keeps

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Jatix

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If that’s what the game is (hardcore pvp only) then we wouldn’t be having this discussion because the game would be set up to be pvp only and you wouldn’t be complaining about the game mechanics. “This boat is all wrong! It doesn’t even have wheels! How am I supposed to drive this thing on land without wheels!?” Lolol
The game is advertised as a hardcore open pvp sandbox game. That is, the main draw of the game. Which doesnt mean its the only thing. But anyone who cant deal with that just shouldn't be here. And trying to make the game something its not isnt going to work. The current direction MO2 is going in, wont hold the open pvp players, or the carebears. People who need tons of consequences to prevent people from killing them, are going to go play any other game, where they arent protected by a failed law system (which doesnt work and has tons of workarounds). And the people who wanted the open pvp are going to get bored from all the hurdles they have to jump over to play the game that its not going to be worth playing.
 

Toerin

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Oh, good, the guy who has been playing for a month is going to teach those of us who have been playing the game for a year how it all works. Great, thanks dude.
You get this is a game right? Like it’s not a profession, but a product that t
The game is advertised as a hardcore open pvp sandbox game. That is, the main draw of the game. Which doesnt mean its the only thing. But anyone who cant deal with that just shouldn't be here. And trying to make the game something its not isnt going to work. The current direction MO2 is going in, wont hold the open pvp players, or the carebears. People who need tons of consequences to prevent people from killing them, are going to go play any other game, where they arent protected by a failed law system (which doesnt work and has tons of workarounds). And the people who wanted the open pvp are going to get bored from all the hurdles they have to jump over to play the game that its not going to be worth playing.
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LordMega

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You get this is a game right? Like it’s not a profession

Guys, this fella is just full of insight. Now we all learn today that this is actually a video game. Wow dude, thanks! The things I can learn from you are seemingly endless.
 

Toerin

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Guys, this fella is just full of insight. Now we all learn today that this is actually a video game. Wow dude, thanks! The things I can learn from you are seemingly endless.
Nah, It only seems like that, because you know so little. Lol
 

Anthius

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Aug 24, 2021
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People complain about the murder count and rep system a lot. But I don't think they realize they can live in guild keeps or lawless camps if they want to kill everyone they see on sight. And if you don't like living on towns where you get kos'd then idk why you'd want to remove the rep system. You can't expect to be a murderer and benefit from the protection of safe towns. Like having your cake and eating it too. Truth is playing MMOs where everyone tries to kos is no fun and ruins the social aspect of it. It makes exciting encounters a mundane annoyance. So if you really like pvp as much as you claim... Lawless towns are for you

I would say the bigger issue is that players, that clearly kill everyone they run into are able to walk into towns as long as they can keep their rep up. What this does is allow them to choose their targets and grief people leaving cities. I used to sit in meduli, and wait for people to leave north. I would follow them out and kill them and just go to tindrem with a parcel while I was grey. I got my rep right back after every kill or if I didnt lose rep from the kill, I got gold for it. Simply an ineffective system that benefits PKs more than normal players.

Their needs to be consequence for killing and stat loss worked fine in MO1. If you killed everyone, you were bound to Kran, GK or a guild keep and you couldnt use towns at all. You could kill everyone you wanted, but you couldnt always choose your fights and you sure as fuck couldnt sit safely at the town banks to choose your targets.

Stat loss also prevents people from getting back into fights too fast. Its just kind of lame to be able to res non stop and just grab a weapon and be back in the fight in 10 seconds.

Also, there is 2 lawless cities and at any given time, there will be 1 alliance living out of it.. Any other untagged or non ally guild that shows will be res killed and griefed into the ground.
 

PoisonArrows

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Aug 7, 2020
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The only time I've ever lowered my rep enough to get banned from a city was when I was intentionally killing everyone I saw
How is this even possible. Even when I try to be a good boy for a day, there isn't a day that goes by that my armor and weapons aren't covered in the Blood and Entrails of my enemies. It's like i'm a PvP Magnet. It just comes to me. I could re-roll today and in a hour i would be living in Kranesh again lol.
 

Jatix

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I thought they took the designation "hard-core" out of the advertising. Who's disinforming me?
LOL your right.

Now I'm just waiting for toggle a toggle pvp option lmao. At least they are self aware.

They might aswell. You want real conflict, go elsewhere, because this game doesnt want that. Fighting over a dungeon like the OP? Nope, thats murder, get punished. Even if its an area that obviously shouldn't be protected by law, and in any other pvp game, would be an expected pvp hotspot. People aren't supposed to camp towns for pvp, but they still get the same punishment for pvping at what should be a lawless zone far from civilization. Amazing system.
 
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PoisonArrows

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LOL your right.

Now I'm just waiting for toggle a toggle pvp option lmao. At least they are self aware.

They might aswell. You want real conflict, go elsewhere, because this game doesnt want that. Fighting over a dungeon like the OP? Nope, thats murder, get punished. Even if its an area that obviously shouldn't be protected by law, and in any other pvp game, would be an expected pvp hotspot. People aren't supposed to camp towns for pvp, but they still get the same punishment for pvping at what should be a lawless zone far from civilization. Amazing system.
Mo2 is a embarrassing attempt at a Hardcore PVP game. Even the devs realize it and are running away like the cowards they are and trying to rebrand. "No more "Skillful" combat, no more "Hardcore". If their True Vision was to make a Hardcore PVP game and now they are running away from that vison, then does this mean SV was just a Money Grab Company like when they tried to make that terrible Mortal Battle Arena for Cash? Lmao.
 
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Toerin

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Damn Just when SV couldn't become even weaker, 1st they take out "Skill" now they take out "Harcore" This company has lost the 1% of respect I had for it. Instead of adapting to the PvP community they claimed to serve. They are instead running away with their tails between their legs, changing their Motos and everything just to erase ever trying to be a PvP focused game. Frankly It's embarrassing and they should be ashamed. Have they no balls? Henric must be a Cuck.
They, like any company selling a product are not “serving” anyone. they are making and SELLING a game which means they need to cast a wider net to appeal to enough people to pay their employees while making a profit. They can’t focus on the 00000.1% of people at the cost of neglecting the rest of the pie. They wouldn’t be able to keep their head above water if they operated that way.
 

PoisonArrows

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They, like any company selling a product are not “serving” anyone. they are making and SELLING a game which means they need to cast a wider net to appeal to enough people to pay their employees while making a profit. They can’t focus on the 00000.1% of people at the cost of neglecting the rest of the pie. They wouldn’t be able to keep their head above water if they operated that way.
You sound like a SV Employee in disguise. You can't stop us Henric the damage is already done.
 

Toerin

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You sound like a SV Employee in disguise. You can't stop us Henric the damage is already done.
I’m not lol but at this moment I wish I were because in my experience your posts would be sent around the office for a good laugh. the pouting little man child who thinks he knows everything about a business he’s never even set foot in, arms crossed screaming into the void about how life’s unfair because a gaming studio who wouldn’t be able to pick him out of a two man line up doesn’t give him exactly what he wants at the risk of going bankrupt while doing so. Lol
 

Jatix

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They, like any company selling a product are not “serving” anyone. they are making and SELLING a game which means they need to cast a wider net to appeal to enough people to pay their employees while making a profit. They can’t focus on the 00000.1% of people at the cost of neglecting the rest of the pie. They wouldn’t be able to keep their head above water if they operated that way.
You're missing the part where MO had a niche it was trying to pull off. Casting a wider net is just killing the entire point in the game. It fails at the hardcore niche and theres a ton of other not hardcore games to go play for anyone who doesnt want hardcore. Which makes it an equally small niche of people who will want to play MO2.

And if they were going full company and didn't care what they made as long as it profited, the game would be f2p with cash shop.
 

Tashka

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Dec 4, 2021
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You get this is a game right? Like it’s not a profession, but a product that t

View attachment 2951

duh

> In Mortal Online 2, players are never truly free from danger. There are no specific PvP or safe zones, only an open, realistic world where you are free to choose your own path.

> Mortal Online is not like other MMOs. In Mortal Online any player can at any point attack another player and take everything they own. This makes every encounter with another player a dangerous affair that could result in great loss. It also greatly increase the importance of having strong allies by your side or a powerful guild to back you up.

Looks like a game carebears would love, isn't it?
 

Najwalaylah

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They, like any company selling a product are not “serving” anyone. they are making and SELLING a game which means they need to cast a wider net to appeal to enough people to pay their employees while making a profit. They can’t focus on the 00000.1% of people at the cost of neglecting the rest of the pie. They wouldn’t be able to keep their head above water if they operated that way.
It really is a product and not just a service.

The product + service combination that some people declare that want is not likely to be possible as a sustainable franchise. "I don't like it... any more than you men."
You're missing the part where MO had a niche it was trying to pull off. Casting a wider net is just killing the entire point in the game.
This has a core of truth in it, but unless you think Star Vault pulled off the niche as you say they attempted to do, then there were also grains (and eventually tons) of truth in the frequent stretches of time during which there wasn't enough population. Did they always get and keep the number of players they wanted, and more importantly, did we always get the numbers of other folks to play with that we wanted?
  • It's no less than just as important for players to have enough other people around, since not being able to find other people is one big reason that those still playing quit. (The Vicious Cycle.)
Some played (even though hating parts of it) because there was nothing else quite like it in their estimation.
  • Those who could find something enough like it went & played whatever it was they'd found, and if they liked it better, they never came back.
So did SV ever really fill the niche it aimed at, and if they did, did they do it for long? More significantly, when they were "doing it right", did they get enough players and keep them?
  • Henrik has said since the announcement of MO2 as a project that a lot of people tried & quit the game (MO1) because they simply didn't get time to fall in love with it - not because they were wrong for the game. It has sounded as if he really expects some of them to give it a second try in Mortal Online 2. But would they be enough?
8K (eight thousand paid & subscribing players) is a really important part of the target this time, and as far as I know, it hasn't been hit yet. No matter what you want out of a Mortal Online game, you have to ask yourself at some point if Star Vault or anyone would, realistically, keep the current second iteration running, maintained, & further developed for just two (2) or five (5) or six (6) thousand of even the most devoted fans of the version of the game that is your personal preference. (No matter what that preference is.)
 

Tuhtram

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People are also widely misquoting/misremembering things Henrik has said and are being willfully ignorant of SV’s stated intentions for the game.

Henrik specifically said this year (in Discord) that the goal for the penalty system is that most people will not kill blue players, he hasn’t been hiding anything. That should tell you all you need to know about what direction they’re trying to go with MO2. Think about how much work they’re putting into PvE, how they’re prioritizing safety and security in many more systems, how Henrik said that PvP’s been built up a lot in MO1 and while they do plan to still work on it that they want to focus a lot more on PvE elements this time.

Even way back when MO1 was first released we can find interviews and posts where the devs aren’t saying “this is a PvP game” and even reject that title and say “this is a game where you can PvP, and yes it has a lot of PvP focus, but it isn’t a ‘PvP game’.” They talked pretty consistently for all of these years about wanting a game that’s essentially a fantasy world simulator, and not just a rolling death match where PvP should be “the point” of the game and that’s it.

I’d been telling people this for years, and I didn’t just come up with that idea on my own. But people didn’t care about the vision, and understandably that really wasn’t how MO1 worked anyway—so why would they? It really was all about the PvP, why play it any other way?

Henrik has since said that MO1 was too hardcore in many ways and pushed away many more players than intended—and while they do intend to keep plenty of hardcore elements, a very basic reading level lets you understand that it means MO2 is still intended to be less hardcore, then, in the ways that scared people off.

MO1 was not a success. It specifically maintained only a population who liked it the way it was, and for those people I do feel sorry because they essentially had their “perfect game”—but it isn’t a sustainable model from all evidence. Henrik’s openly talked about struggling for money, and we only have to think back on how at one point it was quite literally 3 of them in a little office basically fighting to keep the game afloat while some people were purposefully ruining the experience of all the new players they could and laughing about it. MO2 following the same exact footsteps as MO1 would just doom it to the same fate, so of course they’re switching it up. Can we blame them for not wanting to struggle again?

Even just in MO1 alone, they did a lot of things that pointed towards this outcome. Many major changes had to do with things like adding a switch for criminal actions, or adding a “can’t attack, can’t be attacked” gold flag for new players, or creating an entire instanced island to keep new players out of the mix and allow them to learn the game, or making a trinket system where those items don’t drop (would that ever have happened in early MO1?), or creating an arena system full of extremely powerful guards to keep people from interfering, or adding more guards where people were frequently getting PK’d in some towns. SV was obviously doing what they could to protect players from the actions of other players.

Because they clearly had a vision, and they had clearly identified what was keeping them from achieving that. They never said the game was only a PvP game where PvP was the primary focus, just *a* core focus, and if anyone advertised it as a “PvP game”—It was the word-of-mouth from the players, because SV has historically rejected that statement about their game. Even just googling “Henrik Nystrom PvP” will lead you to numerous interviews where he’s saying things like there should be more to the game than PvP and how they want to support multiple communities of players and not only hardcore PvP all the way back in 2012.

People are expecting housing to allow them to ignore the rep system. Look at the years-long pattern, and Henrik’s quote on the intention for the penalties, and tell me with all honesty if you think that once it comes to their attention that people can entirely bypass the penalties they’ve put in place that they’re going to say that’s fine. I don’t see it happening. Follow the pattern, follow the quotes. Do not be shocked when they do what they say they’re going to do. That’s all I’m saying.

I think lawless zones would be great, I’d even love to see all of Herabalter be considered one, and I think maybe it’d make sense if dungeons and the areas immediately around them (except the ones in cities like the Tindrem sewers I guess) specifically lacked MCs to highlight how dangerous they are. But we cannot expect things to be as off the wall as they were in MO1 when SV has specifically said that’s what they don’t want to happen again.
 

Tzone

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If there was stat loss I would probably just not play the game. Point of the game is to PvP, if Im punished for PvP thats a issue and not worth playing the game.

In BDO it was horrible when they buffed the karma loss on kills. People would constantly kill steal because you lost out more by killing them.

When your PvE is poor and the rest of the game is mediocre, punishing people for winning in a OW PvP game is a problem.
Only real content that MO2 has on the market is that its a OW PvP game that allows OW PvP.

Just doubling down has not worked and only made things worse. They removed the only limit to killing people which was rep loss by making PvPers not have anyway to gain rep. If you want PvP then you are going to have to just play with out rep.
If you make the punishment for being a red player worse then you just will push people out of your game.
 

Tuhtram

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If there was stat loss I would probably just not play the game. Point of the game is to PvP, if Im punished for PvP thats a issue and not worth playing the game.

In BDO it was horrible when they buffed the karma loss on kills. People would constantly kill steal because you lost out more by killing them.

When your PvE is poor and the rest of the game is mediocre, punishing people for winning in a OW PvP game is a problem.
Only real content that MO2 has on the market is that its a OW PvP game that allows OW PvP.

Just doubling down has not worked and only made things worse. They removed the only limit to killing people which was rep loss by making PvPers not have anyway to gain rep. If you want PvP then you are going to have to just play with out rep.
If you make the punishment for being a red player worse then you just will push people out of your game.
The point of the game is not only PvP, they've been open about this for years and admitted that the PvP part got far ahead the other parts but that that wasn't their intention. Now we can see them making good on fleshing out the PvE side, and we can see them adjusting their vision to allow more types of players to play the game and people are getting confused.

This is MO2's intended game design, they aren't accidentally making these changes without considering what'll happen:

PgioFjS.png

Yes, some people won't like the changes and will leave the game. But they're still getting a fairly large amount of players playing the game every day. The same can be said for any changes in the other direction as well, a rolling deathmatch will also cause a chunk of the playerbase to leave. It's expected that some people won't like this direction, I'm sure they know that. But even with these changes, there will still be PvPers—just ones who're fine with the current (and future) systems. You can say that about BDO's penalties being 'horrible', but plenty of PvPers remained in that game where all they do is PvP, and those decisions lead that company to be a billion-dollar company able to have multiple games in development at the same time and open offices in multiple continents and countries—despite people claiming that the changes would ruin the game. It didn't, not for the majority of the playerbase.

I'm not saying that SV should follow their footsteps 1:1, there are a lot of things BDO did that they shouldn't have, just that the doom and gloom comes from a percentage of the playerbase who play the game a very specific way. With better wardec systems, arenas, and so-on—there will be a PvP scene still. The random PKing scene might just be much less than it once was, which is, as you can see, exactly what Starvault wants.
 

forcem

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Were this people here when you could attac the guarded cities?
That's a feature, and it will be back sooner or later. Get ready.
 

Tuhtram

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Were this people here when you could attac the guarded cities?
That's a feature, and it will be back sooner or later. Get ready.
They've said that they don't want that on the streams and that they want the guarded cities to be a relatively safe place where new players can get their footing, so I genuinely don't think it will be back. Henrik even mentioned potentially making inns safezones so you don't have to worry about another player hitting you over the head while you're playing a board game.

Just got to pay attention to what's being said.
 
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