If you had a chance to get a full refund now, would you take it?

[Manbrosky]

I was in beta for 3 days and I voted no. Although what you say applies to all other products, complex MMOs are not one of them, especially done by indies. So buckle up and grab a pint of patient, or eff off and we'll just kill each other.

Why do you think this doesn't apply to MMO's? If they are charging you $$, it's not your job as a consumer to give them excuses when their product doesn't work. We aren't talking about an in-game bug. People literally can't get past the login screen to access what they paid for. You could comparatively make the same excuse for any software. There is always something more complex out there, but that doesn't mean they don't or shouldn't share the same industry standards. If this was F2P I wouldn't say anything but it's not.
The bar has dropped so low for game releases. The reason it keeps happening is because we let it happen. It's a bad look for the industry that this is happening so close to the heels of the New World catastrophe.
The best way to get these awful releases to stop happening is for more consumers to raise hell when it does happen and demand their money be returned. There isn't much incentive to make sure your release is going to go well if you know most people won't be able to get that money back.
We've fallen into this crazy place where it's considered normal and we just go with the punches. That's crazy to me.
I work IT in the health industry and if this crap happened in my field, physicians and patients wouldn't be looking for excuses on my behalf. I also wouldn't expect them too.
The game industry is the only place I know of where software that flat out doesn't work is considered ok. "Just be patient, eventually it will work. We don't know when or have an ETA but don't complain. It's all part of the process. Just restart your client every 30-40min and you should get in eventually. No? Well it worked for other people... If you don't have time to do that then just chill out and try again tomorrow and the next day after that. No point in complaining.". <--That's absolutely crazy but it's also common responses I see.
I want to like this game but I also want my money back until it's a working piece of software and then I can decide if I want to try it again or not. The tutorial was nice and all but I wouldn't even give $5 for it let alone $40 if that's all I get to see before being forever stuck in the queue.
Anyhow, those are just my opinions and I'm done ranting.

 

[Veeshan]

Alot of people have through stream getting refunds even with hours of playtime

 

[Emdash]

I can say it, but it doesn't mean much until you guys actually see it. You gotta read what I'm saying, the whole post, not just the title, follow what I'm saying. I am trying to look at things from an outside 'fair' perspective because I'm not even in on 'the game' that you guys are playing. I think a lot of people play sandboxes w/ open pvp because they don't understand humans and prefer to deal with them by force. Thus, it confuses them both in game and on forums when you talk to them.

I'd hope in time everyone would see that while I do make a lot of stupid jokes and spread my flamboyance (writer reasons) on the forum, I want to be seen as someone who is just real. Stop looking at me as someone who is biased because I want x. I want the game to be good so that more people can play. I want to interact with people. That's not happening.

This is a stop the bleeding situation, and I feel like I am trying (albeit in vain) to shout into the vacuum that they need to do something, the more time that passes, the more damage they are doing to themselves and the game, everyone who says nah don't worry, bud, is crazy. This is defcon level. I dunno if some of you guys are in the game and playing, or whatever, and that's cool because if you are genning mats, you are just boosting the economy for when we get in. All that cron and ogh people made will stay in the world.

Don't you guys want MO2 to actually be good? The only time I legit get upset is when people try to excuse 'extra-mechanical' behavior that results in gains, or when I just feel like everything I am saying is for naught. That's why I occasionally just hang it up. I'm like ok, I'm done here. It's like talking to a wall.

I feel that NO SIGN has been given that things are going to be OK. This is a long time for no concrete plan. This is time for action. All you guys who are defending SV need to realize they are bleeding money right now. It seems like they don't know what to do so they are doing nothing. That's not a good action. It might be a good action if you are the president or something, but not if you are a gaming company and your game is live on steam but nobody can log in. lool.

But yea dudes, feel free to check me when I say something that isn't coming from a thoughtful point of view. I think you can look back and see that I have been pretty consistent in what I believe is bad about the game mechanics, but this is a whole nother level. This is just DEFCON.

 

[Psyop]

I'm actually in game right now having a blast upping skills in Haven. Had to delete my char but now at least i can progress while they work on it.

 

[Emdash]

I'm actually in game right now having a blast upping skills in Haven. Had to delete my char but now at least i can progress while they work on it.

That's how I felt when I deleted my char and logged into haven, too. It gets old pretty fast. lol.

Edit: esp when you start to realize this is not something they are going to fix as quickly as originally thought.

 

[Psyop]

Well what can we do? It ain't fun and there's no PVP but you can train and be ready for the big showdown. It could be a few weeks until we get some type of acceptable gameplay on Myr.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Tzone is absolutely right re: wipe. I wanted a wipe day2. Wow progress. However, I've accepted that's not the policy. OK.

However: what is happening now is in NO WAY OK. lolll. It's honest to goodness ridiculous. It's fail upon fail, even for SV standards. It is unimaginable. I am not going to respond to anyone's attempt to bait me, I was asking a yes/no question.

To repeat: this is really bad. It has nothing to do with me being unable to catch up ( lol I didn't start MO at release and played on and off and had no trouble becoming a member of the community.) It's sad because what I will say is this is a money talks situation. We're not getting a refund. This was a theoretical question as in, how seriously are you taking what is happening, and I can see most people are like ahh it'll all be good. haha. I am actually surprised there are as many yes's and I hope more people continue to give their honest vote.

I am polling because I want data for SV to look at. If you wanna say stuff to me, go ahead. I been on net for long time budz.

Now will you concede that maybe I was right not to even consider buying MO2 until it was out (post-'release') for 60 days and IF it was healthy by then?

 

[Tloluvin]

if the game doesnt wipe it loses a lot of integrity in the eyes of a significant part of the playerbase, unsiegeable assets being claimed day 1 through exploits that were constantly reported is just one of the issues. this issue is seperate from the login issues though.

What exploits do you mean? Constantly creating and deleting characters is not an exploit. The exploit is not a reason to wipe. There are other responses to the exploit. Delete things. Delete character. Find another way to punish the guilty. However, you cannot punish everyone for the crimes of the few.

If sv cared about good pr, or wanted to make a popular choice, they would announce they will wipe myrland (not haven) once all login issues have been resolved. they already have gates in place to prevent haven gold funneling, but the damage was done instantly with keeps being claimed in hours. you cant build a dam after the flood occurred and be happy with yourself, especially if you had weeks of advance knowledge knowing the flood was coming.

If SV does a wipe, it will breach the terms of the contract. You will never know if the wipe will not happen again. Therefore, it should never happen.

 

[Draed]

What exploits do you mean? Constantly creating and deleting characters is not an exploit. The exploit is not a reason to wipe. There are other responses to the exploit. Delete things. Delete character. Find another way to punish the guilty. However, you cannot punish everyone for the crimes of the few.

to exploit in this case means to glean an advantage from a mechanic that was abused in an unintended way, even patched literally 24 hours after the incident. sv was told many times over many months that if they dont fix it, it will be abused. server launches, its abused, and they change their mind promptly after the damage was already done.

by punishing the "many," you mean those able to actually play the game? its a stretch to even call it a game launch at this point, only dramatic pedants would go so far as to call it a "breach of contract," its much more so akin to starting over giving equal opportunity to all players. to me its much more egregious to ignore the majority who are fully barred from playing at all, in favor those who abused now patched game mechanics to gain a permanent advantage.

I would agree with you fully if the game didnt just launch, there should never be a wipe post-launch, but we as the player base have not seen a single playable day since launch yet.

 

[Emdash]

Now will you concede that maybe I was right not to even consider buying MO2 until it was out (post-'release') for 60 days and IF it was healthy by then?

I NEVER... NOT...EVEN...ONCE... said you were wrong. I said I wanted you to play the game w/ all the OGs. It's rare I tell people they are wrong even if they are wrong, unless they are being a flagrant cock about it.

Edit: 100x skill gain beta was epic fun, you missed out. Esp when it seemed like rep system wasn't a thing.

 

[Starz]

Guess exploiting is the way to go now adays. No problem. We will just exploit guards out of towns and have our way

 

[Tloluvin]

to exploit in this case means to glean an advantage from a mechanic that was abused in an unintended way, even patched literally 24 hours after the incident. sv was told many times over many months that if they dont fix it, it will be abused. server launches, its abused, and they change their mind promptly after the damage was already done.

by punishing the "many," you mean those able to actually play the game? its a stretch to even call it a game launch at this point, only dramatic pedants would go so far as to call it a "breach of contract," its much more so akin to starting over giving equal opportunity to all players. to me its much more egregious to ignore the majority who are fully barred from playing at all, in favor those who abused now patched game mechanics to gain a permanent advantage.

I would agree with you fully if the game didnt just launch, there should never be a wipe post-launch, but we as the player base have not seen a single playable day since launch yet.

Perhaps my English is too weak to understand what you are trying to say.
People are creative and there are a lot of people here. There will always be someone who uses the mechanics unintentionally to gain an advantage. Will you always wipe when that happens?

Since the sentence about punishing many for the sins of a few is incomprehensible, I will write differently. You cannot punish the innocent.

The premiere was terrible, but it was. Nothing will change that, and a deal is a deal. The players have no equal chances in the game. They never have and never will.

It's terrible that people can't play. Wipe can't fix it

 

[Emdash]

Perhaps my English is too weak to understand what you are trying to say.
People are creative and there are a lot of people here. There will always be someone who uses the mechanics unintentionally to gain an advantage. Will you always wipe when that happens?

Since the sentence about punishing many for the sins of a few is incomprehensible, I will write differently. You cannot punish the innocent.

The premiere was terrible, but it was. Nothing will change that, and a deal is a deal. The players have no equal chances in the game. They never have and never will.

It's terrible that people can't play. Wipe can't fix it

You should wipe day2, yes. lol. It does not set a precedent. To use a sports analogy, there is a point in a game where they would just say CANCEL THE GAME, where as once a certain amount of the game has been played, they generally just score it out and let it ride. Day 2... like 36 hours into 'persistence' yes that is a prime time for a wipe. It should have been a wipe and shut off the servers, though. Everyone should have been relegated to haven because GUESS WHAT, HAVEN HAS THE RESOURCES TO HOLD US ALL. ahaha.

Your haven instance is ready for you, sir, right this way. Like I said in another thread, make like 20 of the haven instances open pvp and list the numbers so we can at least have some fun.

 

[Duk420]

No. The games a marathon not a sprint.

 

[hzika]

i did from steam.

 

[ThaBadMan]

No, because thats one spot I didnt learn from my past mistakes. But I totally see people who say yes.

 

[Tloluvin]

You should wipe day2, yes. lol. It does not set a precedent. To use a sports analogy, there is a point in a game where they would just say CANCEL THE GAME, where as once a certain amount of the game has been played, they generally just score it out and let it ride. Day 2... like 36 hours into 'persistence' yes that is a prime time for a wipe. It should have been a wipe and shut off the servers, though. Everyone should have been relegated to haven because GUESS WHAT, HAVEN HAS THE RESOURCES TO HOLD US ALL. ahaha.

There is a proverb in my country that you cannot be half pregnant. You are or you are not. It doesn't matter if the wipe will be on the first day or on the hundredth. The deal is simple - Mortal Online 2 is a persistent world, with no progress wipes or resets. Every player action becomes a part of the world’s shared history. Besides, wipe won't fix anything, so you want to destroy something that is of great value for nothing. There is another proverb in my country that describes what you are trying to do. You don't shoot a mosquito with a cannon.

If you like sports, I have a better analogy. You want to close the Olympics because your favorite athlete cannot start.

 

[Emdash]

No, because thats one spot I didnt learn from my past mistakes. But I totally see people who say yes.

you have to admit that this is a unprecedented (lol since people wanna keep talking about wipe precedence) shit show. It's not just the situation, but how they are handling it that has really soured me.

In fact, I empathize with SV that their MO2 and all that just crashed and burnt. lol. "It's a marathon not a sprint," and it's true that they will get things working somehow, or enough people will quit, but the truth is that enough info has been revealed that proves they are not ready to handle biz when something serious pops up. I've seen enough to realize that. Def is sad, but it's also sad that MO2 is not really like MO1 (in the vein of "there's nothing else like it!) Since I realized that pretty early (but went along with it cuz I figured they had at least enough to launch the game lol and my first month of play would decide if I stayed.) I applauded SV w/ money for their effort and a chance to try out their new creation, but I find it hard to believe that even the most hardcore cynic could have predicted this.

It's not just the fact that they set it up poorly. People make mistakes, but their damage control, or lack thereof, has been the real enlightening factor. I think they have proven themselves ill-equipped to deal with what it'll take to manage an MMO that is larger than MO1, and they didn't do a great job at that, either. But y'know having 3-5k people, which THEY COULD HAVE HAD and might still end up having, was very intriguing to me despite some of the systems being outright bad and the content being severely lacking. More people = more chances at real sandbox interaction, but when you lose faith in the devs, like any 'well maybes' from 5-10 years ago that one might have harbored, are completely up in smoke. If anything, their ability to handle problems has not improved at all, and now they are faced with a much larger task.

Not saying the game isn't ever gonna be worth it, but it's gonna be awhile, and probably going to develop a meme rep like mo1 did and be a pretty low pop game. Meaning, lower pop that it could have had if they just supported everyone on launch day.

Edit:

There is a proverb in my country that you cannot be half pregnant. You are or you are not. It doesn't matter if the wipe will be on the first day or on the hundredth. The deal is simple - Mortal Online 2 is a persistent world, with no progress wipes or resets. Every player action becomes a part of the world’s shared history. Besides, wipe won't fix anything, so you want to destroy something that is of great value for nothing. There is another proverb in my country that describes what you are trying to do. You don't shoot a mosquito with a cannon.

If you like sports, I have a better analogy. You want to close the Olympics because your favorite athlete cannot start.

does your country have birth control? lol.

Who is my favorite athlete... me... or Mortal Online 2? It'd be more akin to saying close the Oympics cuz 75% of the people got COVID.

Edit: oh shit, or better yet... delaying them until everyone got over the covid. Yikes.

Sorry, bud, but you are good at saying things as if they are true, but you are not good at making any sort of a logical point.

 

[Kaemik]

if the game doesnt wipe it loses a lot of integrity in the eyes of a significant part of the playerbase, unsiegeable assets being claimed day 1 through exploits that were constantly reported is just one of the issues. this issue is seperate from the login issues though.

if sv cared about good pr, or wanted to make a popular choice, they would announce they will wipe myrland (not haven) once all login issues have been resolved. they already have gates in place to prevent haven gold funneling, but the damage was done instantly with keeps being claimed in hours. you cant build a dam after the flood occurred and be happy with yourself, especially if you had weeks of advance knowledge knowing the flood was coming.

That's actually not a bad idea. Let people keep their skills but wipe Myrland banks and houses. I think a full wipe would rub people wrong but given the extremely bad circumstances arising because of the state of this launch, a Myrland wipe is something I could completely get behind.

 

[bbihah]

That's actually not a bad idea. Let people keep their skills but wipe Myrland banks and houses. I think a full wipe would rub people wrong but given the extremely bad circumstances arising because of the state of this launch, a Myrland wipe is something I could completely get behind.

If they feel moving everyone back to haven is the right move, then if that should be followed by a soft wipe of assets is probably the first question they should ask themselves.

Personally I have no cat in that fight, SV can do whatever they want, if they do it though they should at least have a explanation for it. People who have something to lose from it are at least owed that.