Zerg guilds killed Mortal Online 1. Will MO2 be different?

[Chef]

Yeah there were bugs, but it was faster paced with a lower TTK which allowed you to fight zergs more easily.

Its not really a concept that applies only to MO. In Darkfall it was possible as well.

It was faster paced because the game lacked polish and refinement.

It was only possible in Darkfall because you had two spells that let you bunnyhop your way across the map if you knew how to hit spacebar just right, making you unkillable. Unfortunately, MO doesn't have such a mechanic unless you're a MA fighting footfighters.

 

[agui]

For me, mo1 pace of fighting was best, but ping had serious issues both sides.... on one side, a great EU players was really dificult to kill ... and other side, a AUS player warping around too.

Mo2 melee seems strange and boring to me, but I desagree that your smaller group will always get dunked.


With a well coordanated and experience group of 5 u cant kill 10 newbies?

Good heals , parries , maybe using roofs of a city like kranesh.

 

[ElPerro]

It was faster paced because the game lacked polish and refinement.

It was only possible in Darkfall because you had two spells that let you bunnyhop your way across the map if you knew how to hit spacebar just right, making you unkillable. Unfortunately, MO doesn't have such a mechanic unless you're a MA fighting footfighters.

Yeah no, polish and refinement doesnt have anything to do with it. You can have a buggy unpolished game thats slower paced too.

 

[ThaBadMan]

For me, mo1 pace of fighting was best, but ping had serious issues both sides.... on one side, a great EU players was really dificult to kill ... and other side, a AUS player warping around too.

Mo2 melee seems strange and boring to me, but I desagree that your smaller group will always get dunked.


With a well coordanated and experience group of 5 u cant kill 10 newbies?

Good heals , parries , maybe using roofs of a city like kranesh.

Thing is PvP oriented players dont want the game balanced around beating noobs down like RPK so much enjoyed. They where a tiny minority during their entire lifespan in MO.
Real PvPers look for the game to be balanced in equal skill fighting as in 2 players of equal skill should be able to be equally as useful no matter their styles but based on their skill prowess in their field.
We also want a addict who train combat for 8h a day every day to outshine someone who trains only 2h a day every day and so on downward. For example we want a Barristan Selmy to be able to cut a red path through a battlefield and take down a reknowned knight whos skilled but far from Selmys prowess. You can only dream of even cutting your way through 3 enemies of much lower skill simply due to the slow combat speeds and low reaction times needed to parry whore yourself safely from 1 opponent.
Being severly limited by every aspect of the game is not a fun starting point with no roof to reach.
That creates stagnation culture. Like it did MO.

Well if it means anything, the combat seems much smoother over here in the US. So more fighters. You dudes sitting on top of the server, of course it seems like it doesn't have changes haha.

Nah, but... yea it is kind of a copy paste, but it's cleaned. I don't agree w/ everything they did in their polish, but it's... ok. More people is what you need, in the game in general. Then people who are good and geared with groups don't go fight a solo or a small group because the pay off is better to fight a big group! And as these 'big group' fights happen... you can join in maybe. I dunno. People are the main thing that MO needs and as (renown and regular alike) people started to bleed away and the 'soul' of the game dissipated, then... it died. But really TC was a big mistake, it was one of those injections where it brought people back cuz it's like OH YEAHHH then it's like actually... the game isn't fun anymore.

We be aight. We gona get thru this.

I totally get this since ping has always been a plague for gamers, we all share it. But is it worth breaking a game in order to get 10% better stability but the game devolves by 60% in gameplay ?
Then again we have had this discussion and lets just say there was a huge EU backing ping normalization which turned all non UK EUs ping up by 100%, just to take this further we also made sure the poll for a change to NA server was also vastly on the Yes side from EU PvPers.
We rather want a good, fun and skill based MO2 with worse ping then another MO and still have worse ping because of ping normalization which wont go away.
We know that a good skill based system will negate ping as it did in MO for NA players.
I was in a primarily NA guild my first years in MO and let me just say no EU player on the server could beat the best NA players we had, not a single one.

But still this is an issue we still cant get around.
Dont get me wrong MO2 is improved in many TECHNICAL places, like MO was always horribly tech wise and stability wise. Thats a fact.
Now gameplay has nothing to do with tech limitations.
You can have great gameplay but horrible tech, and you can have great tech and horrible gameplay.
Early MO had great gameplay but was plagued by bugs, instability, bad tech, bad coding, bad net code, etc.
What changed over time is that gameplay shifted slowly but surely towards worse and worse in so many aspects while tech got better and coding slowly fixed tiny piece by tiny piece.
Game got slower, easier, passive things got better like armor, materials, healing with no disadvantages. So TTK went up, importance of skill dwindled while gear, pets and other passives got increased immensely.
The game also changed fundamentally where early you where forced out of towns to be active in the world to where it was promoted to stay passive in town to make money and gain resources.

 

[agui]

Thing is PvP oriented players dont want the game balanced around beating noobs down like RPK so much enjoyed. They where a tiny minority during their entire lifespan in MO.
Real PvPers look for the game to be balanced in equal skill fighting as in 2 players of equal skill should be able to be equally as useful no matter their styles but based on their skill prowess in their field.
We also want a addict who train combat for 8h a day every day to outshine someone who trains only 2h a day every day and so on downward. For example we want a Barristan Selmy to be able to cut a red path through a battlefield and take down a reknowned knight whos skilled but far from Selmys prowess. You can only dream of even cutting your way through 3 enemies of much lower skill simply due to the slow combat speeds and low reaction times needed to parry whore yourself safely from 1 opponent.
Being severly limited by every aspect of the game is not a fun starting point with no roof to reach.
That creates stagnation culture. Like it did MO.

I totally get this since ping has always been a plague for gamers, we all share it. But is it worth breaking a game in order to get 10% better stability but the game devolves by 60% in gameplay ?
Then again we have had this discussion and lets just say there was a huge EU backing ping normalization which turned all non UK EUs ping up by 100%, just to take this further we also made sure the poll for a change to NA server was also vastly on the Yes side from EU PvPers.
We rather want a good, fun and skill based MO2 with worse ping then another MO and still have worse ping because of ping normalization which wont go away.
We know that a good skill based system will negate ping as it did in MO for NA players.
I was in a primarily NA guild my first years in MO and let me just say no EU player on the server could beat the best NA players we had, not a single one.

But still this is an issue we still cant get around.
Dont get me wrong MO2 is improved in many TECHNICAL places, like MO was always horribly tech wise and stability wise. Thats a fact.
Now gameplay has nothing to do with tech limitations.
You can have great gameplay but horrible tech, and you can have great tech and horrible gameplay.
Early MO had great gameplay but was plagued by bugs, instability, bad tech, bad coding, bad net code, etc.
What changed over time is that gameplay shifted slowly but surely towards worse and worse in so many aspects while tech got better and coding slowly fixed tiny piece by tiny piece.
Game got slower, easier, passive things got better like armor, materials, healing with no disadvantages. So TTK went up, importance of skill dwindled while gear, pets and other passives got increased immensely.
The game also changed fundamentally where early you where forced out of towns to be active in the world to where it was promoted to stay passive in town to make money and gain resources.

I dont get why you quoted me

 

[ThaBadMan]

I dont get why you quoted me

Was mostly for the vs noobs part as that was a perfect example to build upon.

 

[PoisonArrows]

you havent ran into the griefers with bone weapons killing tames in town. dying then coming back with no rep loss and doing it again. Every town has this issue going on right now. People log in, not to pvp or play the game, but to sit in town and kill peoples tames when they shouldnt be able too.

The rep system is a joke. If you murder someone you should be red and treated like a pker. not walk back into town 2 mins later like nothing happened.

I've quoted this in great detail several times tbh in post I have written about. But I haven't really posted in weeks. They had Lictors teleporting for awhile to attack criminals, but for whatever reason it seems people are able to attack in towns and around banks again. I don't know the details I haven't kept up to date for like 3 weeks now.

 

[Dracu]

Zergs didnnt kill the game. I guess its multiple things that killed the game... one in my book would be Lack of players. Its a sandbox game that lives of players making enough interesting content to be worthwhile. SV does not provide enough fun content to hold players itself. SV really just provides tools, some better some worse.

 

[Tzone]

Zergs didnnt kill the game. I guess its multiple things that killed the game... one in my book would be Lack of players. Its a sandbox game that lives of players making enough interesting content to be worthwhile. SV does not provide enough fun content to hold players itself. SV really just provides tools, some better some worse.

People can argue that zergs in anygame push out a lot of players. There probably was many issues that prevented MO1 from becoming a good game.
Fun content doesnt keep PvP players interested, and when the PvP is centered around zerging and rock paper scissors people who are really into PvP dont stay long. People who zerg are not that interested in PvP because they have to divided up the PvP amoung the players. You get less PvP as a zergling because you have to share fighting less people with the zerg. So people are more into PvP look for even figths are small to medium guilds. They care less about winning every time then just having a good fight.

Right now Im seeing a situation with unbalance in the game. FFs are not enjoying the game because of pets and mounted. Zergs havent been game destroying yet in the beta and they game some anti zerg mechanics like counter parry reduction, but many good MO2 PvPers who dont play anymore and look at videos coming out of Mounted Pokemon online and stay uninterested in returning.

 

[Dracu]

People can argue that zergs in anygame push out a lot of players. There probably was many issues that prevented MO1 from becoming a good game.
Fun content doesnt keep PvP players interested, and when the PvP is centered around zerging and rock paper scissors people who are really into PvP dont stay long. People who zerg are not that interested in PvP because they have to divided up the PvP amoung the players. You get less PvP as a zergling because you have to share fighting less people with the zerg. So people are more into PvP look for even figths are small to medium guilds. They care less about winning every time then just having a good fight.

Right now Im seeing a situation with unbalance in the game. FFs are not enjoying the game because of pets and mounted. Zergs havent been game destroying yet in the beta and they game some anti zerg mechanics like counter parry reduction, but many good MO2 PvPers who dont play anymore and look at videos coming out of Mounted Pokemon online and stay uninterested in returning.

Yeah mounted pokemon and no counters to zergs and the amount of cheese gameplay really kills all excitement for mo2 ...atleast for me. Its kinda sad since thats what mo1 had in the end afaik and it killed my interest in the game back then. Hence i could live with TC but pokemon and mounted? No way, my hybrid could not compete with MCs since the EQ could be cast once kinda and it was not possible to kill the mount and the mc could just run away. Same shit now i guess. Rock paper bears

 

[ThaBadMan]

Zergs didnnt kill the game. I guess its multiple things that killed the game... one in my book would be Lack of players. Its a sandbox game that lives of players making enough interesting content to be worthwhile. SV does not provide enough fun content to hold players itself. SV really just provides tools, some better some worse.

Id argue SV provide limitations more then tools. A sandbox is supposed to be free but the chains limiting you in this game is too freedom suppressing.
But it is what it is, imo its a giant deterrent to growing the population, noone likes to be more shackled down as RL is in a game...

Zergs push people out of every game if the game limits what you can do to zergs by artificial limitations in how much better you can play then the zergs members can. In MO and MO2 zergs just gains advantages with no disadvantages while smaller guilds or groups only have disadvantages with no advantages against larger numbers.
So in essence MO and MO2 is only catering to zergs and large number groups while demonizing and running off small numbered groups and solo players.

Its the way SV wants it since they believe in their naivity that if they cater to large numbers and makes the game easy they will gain lots more players then if they made the game hard and catered to solo and small numbers. They still have not learned from 10 years of catering to numbers and easy gameplay.
Maybe in 10 years, we will get MO3 and things finally get in place correctly and population increase to follow, but looking at experience I highly doubt it.

 

[Tzone]

Id argue SV provide limitations more then tools. A sandbox is supposed to be free but the chains limiting you in this game is too freedom suppressing.
But it is what it is, imo its a giant deterrent to growing the population, noone likes to be more shackled down as RL is in a game...

Zergs push people out of every game if the game limits what you can do to zergs by artificial limitations in how much better you can play then the zergs members can. In MO and MO2 zergs just gains advantages with no disadvantages while smaller guilds or groups only have disadvantages with no advantages against larger numbers.
So in essence MO and MO2 is only catering to zergs and large number groups while demonizing and running off small numbered groups and solo players.

Its the way SV wants it since they believe in their naivity that if they cater to large numbers and makes the game easy they will gain lots more players then if they made the game hard and catered to solo and small numbers. They still have not learned from 10 years of catering to numbers and easy gameplay.
Maybe in 10 years, we will get MO3 and things finally get in place correctly and population increase to follow, but looking at experience I highly doubt it.

One good thing that SV did this time is the counter reduction. It really made 1vx viable. This meant that zergs now need triple the numbers of zerglings to win against good players. Double numbers of bad players against a smaller more skilled force usually is leaning in favor of skill v numbers.
SV needs to put in one more thing I feel like to make skill more important then numbers along with balancing out Pets/Mounted and then the fights would be ok. After that just dont cater to zerg guilds.

The main thing right now is that there is nothing for zergs to zerg down since no assets. The way zergs opperate is that they wait for up to a hour or plan in advance to get as many people online to zerg down. They also tend to use pets which is lower skilled to pump up numbers and make up for the general lack of skill of their players. Im not trying to talk down on them about lack of skill but most of these people do not put much time into the game.

What happens right now is that a smaller force usually fights the zerg at lower numbers and then even before they sit in safety waiting for numbers to respond to discord pings to fight once or twice then log out for the rest of the day while the smaller force would still be ready to keep fighting.

I can imagine how broken it will be when one guild zergs down a asset and then is heavily protected by the game with player controlled guards and keeps. They only need most of their players online for short ammounts of time in most cases. While other guilds may be smaller but have more players high playtime.

So far what Ive seen with SV is that they favor feedback and generally favor the larger zergyish guilds.

 

[agui]

That countet attack thing isnt working right, right? We were dueling naked yesterday and the dmg was still good

 

[Tzone]

That countet attack thing isnt working right, right? We were dueling naked yesterday and the dmg was still good

They nerfed it a bit like 2 patches to only be during the strike..

 

[agui]

They need to put real content everywhere in the world ... loads of animals to hunt ... "bosses" too ... new ones dropping most various things...

But most specially donkeys everywhere to be easy to tame and move around the map... horse spawn are still low .... we will neeed many more spawns to make ppl move around ...

Imo ... taming should be secondary, but ppl wont agree... make no sense be just a foot man in this map .... you will always be locked to some town. I would be so lazy to move around to go other city if not in ghost mode, which im already lazy to think about it.


This game could work with a one or two hours naked teleport, depending how far is the City from where u are.