Why does SV hate PvPers?

[666]

well, the thing is that many of us who already have experience from similar games share henriks viewpoint, and not yours

i had little hope that you can try to understand how it looks from that side.

you, me or anybody else, except robmo mayb know nothing how it would b after tc, because last time they fucked it up.
if you keep telling that mantra - i'm with henrick, i'm with henrick it doesnt move us to anypoint, i'm also with henrick so what?

if they make yellow flag again like it was in mo1 it would b fine by me, but again you will b not under protection anyway or you would reroll chars every week?

just because you have a conflicting opinion doesn't make you right, obviously.

prove me wrong, i would b happy if you change my mind, for now you have only hypothetical fear of mo2 death
maybe it's hard for you because you think that i want to protect my playstyle or something, but it's wrong.

when i just started playing mo i remember that feel when you need to get donkey over there but you need to take risk and go there or when reds come to city and trying to get to gy it was always fun you have nothing to lose all you have is bontissue and useless head of some guy, so all bums unite to attack these reds and it was always fun. ofc if they focus you you would die very fast cause you know nothing how to manage stam and protect yourself
idk guys how you want to play it without any feeling of risk

if you play good guy you have all instrument to make blue swat and patrol or even roam to find and kill criminals and murderers

make guild and start, everyone will b happy
noobs will be protected
reds have someone to fight
you have activity
even if you would win against red 9 of 10 nobody would come here and asking to nerf blue

why we have no such thing?
can you tell me as experienced player?

because 100 times easier just came here and tell nerf that change that not for me, right?

this is a complete strawman of an argument.
i've been playing hardcore pvp mmo's since the early 2000's that were text based.
there are plenty of people here who played UO, or SWG, or MUDs, or EQ 1, or any number of hardcore games.
you just can't handle the fact that we're hardcore gamers too

no offence but what is hardcore for you?
it's like i will come now to pve game playing a bit and after will come to forum and tell people - ok, folks, i gathered tomatos for 2 month now i want to kill, change your shit for me

but the most important facet of this conversation is whether it is factually *true* or not that gankfest games drive players away.
I'd say it is already extremely evident from the history of dozens of games like this that unfettered murdering and ganking *does* hurt the game long term.

again i will try to show you some examples it seems you cant understand that reds kill less people than glitches and bugs

1)you riding on horse and stuck cant get out npc or something kill you and your horse after you call gm telling that story he tell you that he cant help

2) you dismount on node line and cant get back on horse because it shows that it is impossible, you have to call to gm again wait 30 minutes at best and they respawn your horse, in that time reds or blue gank can kill you easily (at max i waited to gm for about 6 hours)

3)you can stuck on foot in many places all you have to do is suicide, you coming back and see someone already looted you or aggresive npc around or anything else that doesnt let you get there

4)you go to dungeon and npc can come to you from any far away section and attack you or your mount
or you mount just run away in dungeon and just died somewhere all you got is a message and ofc you cant prove it to gms

5)you can fall thru the ground and take 20000000 damage

6)this week you can dismout people with your weapon or ability, next you cant

7)this week mounteds can hit you for 150 with shitty weps next they cant

8)mounted archery fucked up with new patch and when you trying to shoot you have feeling that you take all pills from granpas table, you just spinning around nonstop

and so on and on and on
and we had stuff like that for months (dancing grass and floating trees and stones for years)
no patch no nothing while kittens3d had weekly patch
that was henrick vision

bad patching, timing and poorly decision made people stop playing that game
read please old mo forum about steam q it was first time when we had massive q

 

[Tzone]

this is a complete strawman of an argument.

i've been playing hardcore pvp mmo's since the early 2000's that were text based.

there are plenty of people here who played UO, or SWG, or MUDs, or EQ 1, or any number of hardcore games.

you just can't handle the fact that we're hardcore gamers too, and our opinion is different than yours


but the most important facet of this conversation is whether it is factually *true* or not that gankfest games drive players away.

I'd say it is already extremely evident from the history of dozens of games like this that unfettered murdering and ganking *does* hurt the game long term.

No you are not this game isnt even hardcore. If you think that mo2 is hardcore that would out you as not being hardcore.

Gear is basicly printable, so easy to get in this game that it doesnt matter losing it. The mobs and bosses are also not hard either. Its only a numbers check. The only thing that adds challenge in this game is competition against other players.

The original English definition of hardcore is requiring extreme dedication. Or having extreme dedication. This game does not require dedication, the skill cap is not so high and gear for months can be gotten with in days.

Making people who are able to win occasionally, to walk 30mins is not hardcore just a timesink. You are just having the game punish people who are winning.

The PvPers are also the best PvErs like most games, if you are hardcore PvErs then you would not complain about PvP which is the only challenge to PvE in this game.

 

[Deleted member 44]

this is the point that most often seems completely lost on RPKers

the game just needs a tracking system for people with more than 5 murder counts and then you would see the tables turned.

Wow, that has to be the single most idiotic thing I've seen on these forums.

 

[Archiel]

Seems like the issue is more to do with murder counts than priest locations, if the "PvP" players stop giving each other murder counts then the small scale pvpers wouldn't be red and the priest changes would only hurt those that are actually murdering

 

[Sgr]

Seems like the issue is more to do with murder counts than priest locations, if the "PvP" players stop giving each other murder counts then the small scale pvpers wouldn't be red and the priest changes would only hurt those that are actually murdering

I guess you are another 3 month experience player with great sense of mo

 

[Charlouf]

they just had to put some guards around city priest, and makes some cities with and without murder count.
Now its 90%pve.
Soon Henrik will see how fast pve boyz are bored, and will understand his mistake.

Making changes, why not, turning a "so called" pvp game into a 90% pve cities where no one wan't to kill anyone cause of murder count, thats stupid.
and to piss people....do this JUST after 10 days of queue.

 

[CrgHck]

but the most important facet of this conversation is whether it is factually *true* or not that gankfest games drive players away.

Maybe this wasnt the game for them from the start? idk just saying MO is not for everyone

not having any pvp is obviously good for any game since those has millions of players, but what about us that arent looking for that ?

 

[Cyrotek]

but the most important facet of this conversation is whether it is factually *true* or not that gankfest games drive players away.

Basically every single "gankfest" MMO failed. That should give one a hint or two. If I remember correctly every single full loot sandbox that was successful (and still is) has a lot of features that allow players to avoid PvP entirely and/or punish killers harshly.

The rational conclusion IS that gankfests drive players away. Why else would this type of game be such a niche?

Again, I am not advocating for a PvP toggle or some shit like that. But going the other extreme is also not going to turn out well. There needs to be some balance to appeal to players that enjoy a more ... sociopathic play style and people that are looking for a more open style of MMO.

 

[Tashka]

Basically every single "gankfest" MMO failed. That should give one a hint or two. If I remember correctly every single full loot sandbox that was successful (and still is) has a lot of features that allow players to avoid PvP entirely and/or punish killers harshly.

There weren't many of them to begin with, especially those not made by an indie studio on extremely limited budget. They also gravitate towards "make your own fun" gameplay and most people can't have fun unless the game handhold them to a location where the fun is.

 

[Sgr]

Basically every single "gankfest" MMO failed. That should give one a hint or two. If I remember correctly every single full loot sandbox that was successful (and still is) has a lot of features that allow players to avoid PvP entirely and/or punish killers harshly.

The rational conclusion IS that gankfests drive players away. Why else would this type of game be such a niche?

Again, I am not advocating for a PvP toggle or some shit like that. But going the other extreme is also not going to turn out well. There needs to be some balance to appeal to players that enjoy a more ... sociopathic play style and people that are looking for a more open style of MMO.

You can avoid any pvp

you have same skill bar as any red in mo
No extra damage for being red extra speed or anything else

use your brain and skill and avoid 99% of pvp

 

[Archiel]

I guess you are another 3 month experience player with great sense of mo

Lol no, I'm just looking at a fault that has been around for a long time that the local grey system is supposed to fix

 

[Cyrotek]

You can avoid any pvp

you have same skill bar as any red in mo
No extra damage for being red extra speed or anything else

use your brain and skill and avoid 99% of pvp

You can't avoid any PvP (or getting griefed), that is literaly what the game is about. I am also not advocating for no forced PvP. I am advocating for proper balance to not have murderers run rampant and have the entire thing devolve into a cluster fuck of people randomly killing each other.

Playing a murderer or even just going grey needs to be actually difficult so people have to think twice about and commit to it.

 

[Sgr]

You can't avoid any PvP (or getting griefed), that is literaly what the game is about. I am also not advocating for no forced PvP. I am advocating for proper balance to not have murderers run rampant and have the entire thing devolve into a cluster fuck of people randomly killing each other.

Playing a murderer or even just going grey needs to be actually difficult so people have to think twice about it.

Ofc you can
We all had blue crafters and timers

I moved a lot of stuff with my blue tamer
Magery+riding+swimming and you can escape from most of the fights

I had 0 offensive skills

pve kids just doesn’t want to improve
They know nothing about pvp, crafting but somehow they know how to fix fullloot game

 

[Wollkneul]

Litterall have a entire market of carebear mmos that can cater you but you need this one to also cater to you all.

Like can we just have one game that PvPers can play. All these people who cry about ganking and deathmatch this or that have other options. As soon as you log in you are consenting to PvP. You cant cry it was not far I was ganked because you should have been paying attention. You have the tools and methods to win and not get ganked.

Only reason this game exist right now is because PvPers dont have a home and we supported and rose it up. We are willing to make some concessions but the non PvErs cant tolerate not having full control and will ride this game into the ground like aways. You cant satiate the carebears thought so compromising will not work. You just have to have it balanced enough that some RPers and PvErs with a appropriate mental outlook can play the game.


All comes down to people do not have the mental fortitude to survive outside of non PvP games. They dont want consequences for losing in PvP, and they the game to punish those for killing them. They get killed one time and they rage out, it not about how many times they were killed on a regular basis. Just one time is too much.

That's a textbook example of a straw man argument.

 

[Sain]

Its just... for me :
PvP
- Bad ass small and large scale battle and siege between group

Full loot PvP
- Ambush a trader and take his stuff, with obviously him not being consensual about it.
- tax/ransom free passage under threat of killing.

And not
- shooting an arrow in the back-head of a lone woodcutter with heaven beginner armor.
- Kill horses in middle of city.

I mean, bandits should attack target of values, not just blind murder of low value targets. That gankfeast.

And yeh I am conscious its hard to design a system that allow the first without allowing the second.

Edit: I was attracted by MO2 for consequence, but anything that feel "unjust" drive player away.

 

[CrgHck]

Its just... for me :
PvP
- Bad ass small and large scale battle and siege between group

Full loot PvP
- Ambush a trader and take his stuff, with obviously him not being consensual about it.
- tax/ransom free passage under threat of killing.

And not
- shooting an arrow in the back-head of a lone woodcutter with heaven beginner armor.
- Kill horses in middle of city.

I mean, bandits should attack target of values, not just blind murder of low value targets. That gankfeast.

And yeh I am conscious its hard to design a system that allow the first without allowing the second.

Edit: I was attracted by MO2 for consequence, but anything that feel "unjust" drive player away.

Its up to the bandit Who he wishes to attack, the merchant has given his consent by logging in.

that said murders should live a life of uncomfort like Being "restricted" to lawless towns. The game shouldnt protect the player, the player should protect him self or hire bodyguards.

 

[Tzone]

That's a textbook example of a straw man argument.

Explain how, To me it seems you are arguing for what I said to be a fallacy so you may dismiss what I said with out effort or reason.

 

[Tzone]

Its just... for me :
PvP
- Bad ass small and large scale battle and siege between group

Full loot PvP
- Ambush a trader and take his stuff, with obviously him not being consensual about it.
- tax/ransom free passage under threat of killing.

And not
- shooting an arrow in the back-head of a lone woodcutter with heaven beginner armor.
- Kill horses in middle of city.

I mean, bandits should attack target of values, not just blind murder of low value targets. That gankfeast.

And yeh I am conscious its hard to design a system that allow the first without allowing the second.

Edit: I was attracted by MO2 for consequence, but anything that feel "unjust" drive player away.

Ive seen nakeds run around with 100s of gold on them. You also forget this is a territory control game. Killing other players means you are controlling territory.

If people figure out you dont kill nakeds then they stop coming out with gear. I know this from experience.

Stop calling things gankfest, its cringe. When people log in they dont get any moral high ground over another player based off if they saw PvP coming or not. You have every tool to prevent your self from being killed. Just pay attention and have some street since so you dont get jumped.

If people dont want their horses to die in the middle of town then stable those things, they block people and lower our frames. Also they are weapons/tool to be used against us.

Preventing players from farming resources is something to fight for.

 

[Cyrotek]

Ofc you can
We all had blue crafters and timers

I moved a lot of stuff with my blue tamer
Magery+riding+swimming and you can escape from most of the fights

I had 0 offensive skills

pve kids just doesn’t want to improve
They know nothing about pvp, crafting but somehow they know how to fix fullloot game

So your solution to rampant PKing that will slowly kill the game is to ... recommend people play builds that allow them to run away easier? Buddy, I hate to break it to you, but this isn't going to work.

I am also not sure what this has to do with it being full loot. Nobody cares about losing shit, its not worth anything anyways. The issue that gets people frustrated is the lost time after getting randomly killed by a bored "hardcore" pvp kid who then cries in forums when they die themselves because they don't understand that the game is not about them.

Playing a PK needs to be actually "hardcore" and also offer gameplay possibilities for non-PKs. Right now it is extremly one sided. And grey griefing should be shut down as much as possible in general (But, I have to admit, people sacrificing themselves to kill horses inside buildings have my blessing).

Explain how, To me it seems you are arguing for what I said to be a fallacy so you may dismiss what I said with out effort or reason.

Not the guy you asked but the reason is pretty simple. You somehow decided to argue as if the people you argue with actually wanted a "carebear MMO", essentially nullifying their opinion, despite them not stating anything like that.

To make it worse you then proceeded to argue against a type of player that isn't even found in this thread.

You literaly argued about a problem that you made up yourself.

 

[Tzone]

So your solution to rampant PKing that will slowly kill the game is to ... recommend people play builds that allow them to run away easier? Buddy, I hate to break it to you, but this isn't going to work.

I am also not sure what this has to do with it being full loot. Nobody cares about losing shit, its not worth anything anyways.

Get gud is always trusted and usefull advice. Game doesnt have to be main stream to survive, profit, or be fun.

PvP isnt killing the game it is the only reason this game got support from its early days. If its not for Open world PvP this game wouldnt exist and most of the players wouldnt play it. The flavor of the month wow players would leave after making it a non PvP game when the next fad mmo comes out.

We are the dedicated players that have 1000s of hours and hundreds of dollars in the game before it was released. We supported this game because there is nothing left on the market after the locust sworm of mainstreamers ate them all up.

I dont understand the obsession with needing every game to be a main stream carebear game. You already have so many options to chose from, no need to ruin MO2. The best games usually are the ones they dont attract the main stream market.