What must be in game for Persistent?

[Crom]

Ok, there are a LOT of conversations about Persistent, and the best ones are about what should be in the game, as a bare minimum, when subscriptions start to be charged. For this thread
So let's see if we can help SV by coming to a consensus from the current player base.

But before we start, let's review three key points

1. This is MO2, not MO. This means that this time, ambitions are high and the stakes immense. MO2 needs to attract MUCH more players than MO, and we have to keep in mind that MO2 is NOT simply a PvP game, it is a Hardcore Sandbox MMORPG focused on Choice and Consequence. There must be options for those who want to do something else than killing other players for the sake of it.

2) Let's not insist on points that have been pacified. For example, Henrik has already said that Housing will NOT be ready early on, majorly because it is an end game system and there are many other priorities for Day1. The same goes for the complete set of magic schools or the other continents.

3) Let's focus on content, not bug fix. We all know that skill resets, despawning horses, and FPS plunges when crossing node lines can't be there when this leaves the test phase and starts to be a paid service.

With no further ado, here's the list (in no specific order) which will be edited with comments on this thread:

I. Broker Houses and Auction Houses
II. Overall complementary systems for PvP: Meele Mounted Combat, Water Combat, Enhanced Anti-cheating, Polished damage curves for gear and stats.
III. At least one more magic school
IV. At least 3 complete PvE dungeons.
V. The fully implemented Criminal system, reputation system, and bounty system (which combined form the "Red & Blue" system).
VI. All already listed by not yet implemented Action and Profession skills and Clade Gifts.
VII. More pickables and mobs/mobs spawners throughout the entire landscape
IX. A polished new player experience, helping people to get core concepts without breaking the "hardcore" promise of the game.
X. A more comprehensive mounting system, with tools to carry weight and add protection.
XI. Overall atmosphere polishment, with more and better-animated NPC, better AI for guards, and further cosmetic additions to cities

 

[Teknique]

water combat

 

[Rankor]

Also, persistence is NOT release; it is the entry into EARLY ACCESS, meaning big changes to systems and content could still take place if needed.

I'll go with your list plus one-

I. Broker Houses
II. Mounted Melee Combat
III. At least one more magic school
IV. At least 3 complete PvE dungeons.
V. The fully implemented Criminal system, reputation system and bounty system (which combined form the "Red & Blue system).
VI. All already listed by not yet implemented Action and Profession skills
VII. More pickables and mobs/mobs spawners throughout the entire landscape

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

I think they need to work much more on the new player experience, I know for a fact that MO2 is now much more visible to the mainstream crowd and in their consciousness now that several high-profile Youtubers have showcased the game to their massive audiences.

What we as old vets may feel as being more than sufficient for the new player experience, may simply not be enough, not even close. SV may need carefully guided and intuitive tutorials that don't involve a lot of reading.

Some of us might say, if these newcomers can't 'get it' even with the tutorial as it is, they're probably not cut out for the game anyway. But just remember, these are the same newcomers who are going to leave reviews on Steam (the platform on which MO2 is built around).

More than ever, we can't afford another 2015 Steam launch of MO1.

 

[BongRips]

If we're adding houses we should have the ability to name them like a pet. Just a thought.

 

[Truthshower]

would rather see water combat before mounted combat. it gimps an entire playstyle in water.

also, just care more about bugs being fixed. like falling into the bottom of the world in the water.

 

[Minyiky]

As a small addition I would say all remaining clade gifts must be in as they will affect which race you pick when making a character

 

[Kaemik]

I. Broker Houses
II. Mounted Melee Combat
III. At least one more magic school
IV. At least 3 complete PvE dungeons.
V. The fully implemented Criminal system, reputation system and bounty system (which combined form the "Red & Blue system).
VI. All already listed by not yet implemented Action and Profession skills

I'd most agree with this. Only one I kind of question is dungeons. PvE is important but I think general mobs will keep the core audience going a bit without any kind of super awesome dungeons.

Mounted Melle and a functional flagging system are priority 1 and 2 as far as I am concerned. I would move a functional flagging system far lower if not for the fact we know we are going to get one. The current flagging system is worse than no flagging system and breaking the game right now. It CAN'T stay this way on persistent. We could probably get by while with nothing at all while they prepare something worth implementing though.

To expand upon the mounted melee point, I think mount variety, saddlebags, and mount armor all should be in and tested before persistent.

Every mounted role currently feels gimped and plays way differently than they should play in persistent because you can kill any mount in 2-4 shots with a good bow. If we go bull horses, desert horses, and horse armor, it would allow much more realistic testing. Molvas would be awesome too but the game won't break if we can't test them before release.

I'd also like them to pick at least one mob like razorbacks or bears that will be rideable eventually and make it rideable for release. They said they have already done so on test servers. If say, razorbacks end up being a decent mount, that is going to have a pretty huge effect on the meta I'd love to test.

 

[StreamerLord]

Mount bags and armor for sure. It's almost standard practice for gaming companies to charge a bunch of money to test their games. It's like paying full price to see a movie and being shown the previews.

 

[Crom]

Also, persistence is NOT release; it is the entry into EARLY ACCESS, meaning big changes to systems and content could still take place if needed.

I'll go with your list plus one-

I. Broker Houses
II. Mounted Melee Combat
III. At least one more magic school
IV. At least 3 complete PvE dungeons.
V. The fully implemented Criminal system, reputation system and bounty system (which combined form the "Red & Blue system).
VI. All already listed by not yet implemented Action and Profession skills
VII. More pickables and mobs/mobs spawners throughout the entire landscape

Absolutely correct, thanks for pointing that, I'll fix the original post in which I used release and persistent interchangeably. What we want here is, more technically is " by the moment subscriptions start to be charged", which happens on Early Stage.
I can also totally agree with the addition to the list. As beautiful as it is, the world right now is empty and it will be very demotivating to a new audience that is expecting to see a full game.

 

[Crom]

I think they need to work much more on the new player experience, I know for a fact that MO2 is now much more visible to the mainstream crowd and in their consciousness now that several high-profile Youtubers have showcased the game to their massive audiences.

What we as old vets may feel as being more than sufficient for the new player experience, may simply not be enough, not even close. SV may need carefully guided and intuitive tutorials that don't involve a lot of reading.

Some of us might say, if these newcomers can't 'get it' even with the tutorial as it is, they're probably not cut out for the game anyway. But just remember, these are the same newcomers who are going to leave reviews on Steam (the platform on which MO2 is built around).

More than ever, we can't afford another 2015 Steam launch of MO1.

Totally agree, and Henrik has said so himself: Polishing the new player experience is critical. For MMOs in general, the first week is paramount for retention, so they need to have this in place to secure a broader audience ( while trying not to infuriate a veteran player base that thinks it is too sissy )

 

[Amelia]

More pickables so cooking and alchemy could be much interesting. Fishing because I like It ! Thieving ....maybe too early I would say at the housing release.

 

[Crom]

If we're adding houses we should have the ability to name them like a pet. Just a thought.

That's a very interesting idea. What would you name your house?

 

[Crom]

would rather see water combat before mounted combat. it gimps an entire playstyle in water.

also, just care more about bugs being fixed. like falling into the bottom of the world in the water.

Ok, I think I need some clarification here. For context, I'm old enough to have beta-tested MO, then I played for about one year before realizing it would never deliver on the promises I was most interested in. When you say "Water Combat", you are not referring to boats and such, but rather to melee/ranged combat while standing on water (like rivers), is that correct? If so, do you mind arguing why this is so important? There seem to be so few spots with water right now that I can't see why this is so relevant, but I'm sure I'm missing something...

 

[Crom]

As a small addition I would say all remaining clade gifts must be in as they will affect which race you pick when making a character

Makes perfect sense, I'll add the clade gifts in the same bullet point of the skills.

 

[Truthshower]

Ok, I think I need some clarification here. For context, I'm old enough to have beta-tested MO, then I played for about one year before realizing it would never deliver on the promises I was most interested in. When you say "Water Combat", you are not referring to boats and such, but rather to melee/ranged combat while standing on water (like rivers), is that correct? If so, do you mind arguing why this is so important? There seem to be so few spots with water right now that I can't see why this is so relevant, but I'm sure I'm missing something...

because you can't fight back against mages in the water

 

[Crom]

I'd most agree with this. Only one I kind of question is dungeons. PvE is important but I think general mobs will keep the core audience going a bit without any kind of super awesome dungeons.

Mounted Melle and a functional flagging system are priority 1 and 2 as far as I am concerned. I would move a functional flagging system far lower if not for the fact we know we are going to get one. The current flagging system is worse than no flagging system and breaking the game right now. It CAN'T stay this way on persistent. We could probably get by while with nothing at all while they prepare something worth implementing though.

To expand upon the mounted melee point, I think mount variety, saddlebags, and mount armor all should be in and tested before persistent.

Every mounted role currently feels gimped and plays way differently than they should play in persistent because you can kill any mount in 2-4 shots with a good bow. If we go bull horses, desert horses, and horse armor, it would allow much more realistic testing. Molvas would be awesome too but the game won't break if we can't test them before release.

I'd also like them to pick at least one mob like razorbacks or bears that will be rideable eventually and make it rideable for release. They said they have already done so on test servers. If say, razorbacks end up being a decent mount, that is going to have a pretty huge effect on the meta I'd love to test.

I totally agree with the additions to the mounts. Some sort of protection to the mounts and the possibility to carry more weight (with saddlebags or any other sort of mechanism) seems essential enough to allow exploration, commerce, and a more decent range of mounted PvP. I think it is safe to add them to the list.
My point of three dungeons is thinking on the more PvE-inclined audience (in which I include myself). For them, I believe there are two essential components: The "quests" and the "end game". The broker houses are a brilliant idea that can almost single-handly deal with the concept of the quests. By fulfilling orders from other players, the PVE audience will have enough content and fun while leveling skills and acquiring better gear. But on the same note, something they can aspire to do after they have progressed is also essential. Without an end-game objective, which most easily comes in the form of a challenging dungeon, this audience will probably lose the sense of purpose midway into the effort. To complete the point, I think a single dungeon may not be enough to achieve this objective (and may generate operational issues, such as overcrowding), and naturally, I'm also leveraging the idea that there are already three dungeons in the game: Minotaur, Risar and Sator (not even counting the Toxai dungeon).
What do you think, any thoughts?

 

[Crom]

Mount bags and armor for sure. It's almost standard practice for gaming companies to charge a bunch of money to test their games. It's like paying full price to see a movie and being shown the previews.

Makes perfect sense, added to the list.

 

[Crom]

because you can't fight back against mages in the water

Got it! So I guess what we are really talking about here is a more balanced/fair PvP system. I guess there is a parallel here with the fact that there is only ranged mounted combat (giving melee-only players no option but being sitting duck against mounted archers). Does this make sense?

 

[Crom]

More pickables so cooking and alchemy could be much interesting. Fishing because I like It ! Thieving ....maybe too early I would say at the housing release.

Totally agree. We have added more pickables to the list, and you are absolutely right that, without them, cooking and alchemy are severely limited. I was love fishing , but I think I can see the game starting without it. Would you agree? Finally, I think it makes sense to leave thieving for later on and that it would be a great fit with the housing system!