Tindrem prop placement and buildings need looked at

[tntdogs]

Edit: I realise I am very rude and critical in this post and the video. I don't think Tindrem is horrible, but some parts have issues. So take the hard words with a grain of salt. The devs have done a great job with so many things so don't take it the wrong way.

Yo guys, I am very passionate about this game and hope it turns out well.
And after having my base in Tindrem for some time I have noticed so many things that are bad.
But no hate to Starvault please keep improving the game and have a look at this eventually.

I have made a video talking about this, but also posted some photos with a brief description if you don't want to watch the video.
The video has timestamps in the description.
I do say a lot of negative things in the video but it's only because I want this game to do well and actually think Starvault has done a great job so far with the game. And I get there is a lot of pressure and the scope of this game is huge.

At the center of Tindrem you have this little wall here, this is incredibly weird. Because behind this wall there is actually a design of some aqeduct, canal thing that looks good. But for some reason that is unclear to me, there is an ugly wall hiding that better looking thing that eats my gpu.


This picture below is what I am talking about, this part is hidden because there is that wall in the way.
So there actually is something that looks good, but its hidden, by a wall. Great use of my gpu.


This large pedistal thing with a pot on top of it, why is it here? This path is already extremely narrow, why add a bad looking obstacle in the way.
I mean seriously, these things looks extremely out of place. Just remove them, it looks silly. If you want to have this design, then PLEASE make the pedistal smaller and the pot smaller. I have no idea why it has to be that size, Looks very silly to me and its way too oversized.


This bench and 2 pots, why are they here. Looks really silly, just a bench and 2 pots in the open, no symmetry whatsoever.
Also it is right in front of the inn.
Which is a travelled path, so many people will see this and possibly run into this.



Now brace yourself for the best (worst) part, the part that is objectively bad. This is what rushed or bad 3d art looks like.
Blue arrow, you clearly see these things clip into each other.
Red arrow, not aligned at all.
Green arrow, against extremely poor alignment.


The blue arrow clearly shows you see a part of the building that is not visible on the opposite end


This is the opposite side of the last pic, completely different placement, you don't see the same white area that you do in the last pic.
These things look so amateurish and if you wanna call yourself triple A quality, then you really need to address this.
This is a rookie mistake, or the result of short time. Its the conclusion I come to.


And finally the best for last, these pots that have a tree in them.
I mean, this is just bad. You have Tindrem, this place with really cool exotic architecture. Then you have a woodland tree for decoration, in a HUGE pot.
This is bad for several reasons.
1. It is a tree in a pot
2. It is a tree in a pot
3. If the tree has to be in the pot for some reason, don't have that tree in the pot.
4. Remove or change this, please. Pretty please.


I am only slightly toxic because I care about this game, and Tindrem just feels so rushed and there are so many blunders and mistakes in this city.
Its impractical, amateurish and bad. If design should affect playability then it should at least look good (protip, unfortunately it does not always).

But it has many many good things too, which I did not cover because those does not need changing.

 

[Kalistair]

Along with the minor tweaks you mentioned in regards to spacing, Tindrem's main attractions are in dire need of a facelift as well.

When I imagine The Royal Bank of Tindrem TM I definitely did not picture some generic Roman building asset tucked away in the corner of a clustered "plaza," sitting right beside and in line with a similar-looking building. Elevate it, expand it, and give it its own little plaza/courtyard or something, away from the other buildings. Sort of like the arena area. Just something to make it stand out from the rest of the buildings. If I have to go wandering around looking inside every generic building (or finding some small wooden sign) to find The Bank of Tindrem then we're gonna need another Tagmaton Irruption because Tindrem's gonna need to crumble and be rebuilt at least one more time for these architects to figure something out. Just a lot of wasted space, too. Definitely feels like a bunch of random assets were plopped around the city just to try and make it look full. Could be so much more interesting if the main attractions (bank, priest, library, etc.) were maximized and the facade was minimized.

Bank



Cathedral

 

[Jackdstripper]

I would settle for not falling through the world (happened twice) just riding into that place.

 

[Nefnate]

Excellent post and detail. +1

 

[Kameyo]

It's almost has if they took unreal assets and plopped them down without so much as an afterthought. This guys lucky he never got to see the original Tinderm that Henrik built for the awakening expansion.

 

[Deleted member 44]

It's almost has if they took unreal assets and plopped them down without so much as an afterthought. This guys lucky he never got to see the original Tinderm that Henrik built for the awakening expansion.

"wE mAkE aLl OuR aSsEtS."

They don't and it's not even an issue that they don't but not admitting it pisses me off.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

The best and worst thing about MO is how little they care for detail. On the one hand it makes them develop and add new stuff really fast since they're not caring about details. On the other hand it's pretty apparent most of the time they just plop props around and never give anything they make a second look. A lot of textures, props, etc aren't even connecting. Like how in MK the stair cases literally have beams that don't even reach the ground, they just float

 

[Nudisto]

starvault half assing things?.. they would never

 

[Favonius Cornelius]

I think Tindrem has come a long way since it’s first appearance in 2020. Tindrem is the final remaining city of a world spanning empire that once was, and as such everything about it should be grandiose, excessive even. I look forward to strutting around this magnificent city in the years to come.

 

[Anabolic Man]

Yo guys, I am very passionate about this game and hope it turns out well.
And after having my base in Tindrem for some time I have noticed so many things that are bad.
But no hate to Starvault please keep improving the game and have a look at this eventually.

I have made a video talking about this, but also posted some photos with a brief description if you don't want to watch the video.
The video has timestamps in the description.
I do say a lot of negative things in the video but it's only because I want this game to do well and actually think Starvault has done a great job so far with the game. And I get there is a lot of pressure and the scope of this game is huge.

At the center of Tindrem you have this little wall here, this is incredibly weird. Because behind this wall there is actually a design of some aqeduct, canal thing that looks good. But for some reason that is unclear to me, there is an ugly wall hiding that better looking thing that eats my gpu.
View attachment 2928

This picture below is what I am talking about, this part is hidden because there is that wall in the way.
So there actually is something that looks good, but its hidden, by a wall. Great use of my gpu.
View attachment 2929

This large pedistal thing with a pot on top of it, why is it here? This path is already extremely narrow, why add a bad looking obstacle in the way.
I mean seriously, these things looks extremely out of place. Just remove them, it looks silly. If you want to have this design, then PLEASE make the pedistal smaller and the pot smaller. I have no idea why it has to be that size, Looks very silly to me and its way too oversized.
View attachment 2930

This bench and 2 pots, why are they here. Looks really silly, just a bench and 2 pots in the open, no symmetry whatsoever.
Also it is right in front of the inn.
Which is a travelled path, so many people will see this and possibly run into this.
View attachment 2931


Now brace yourself for the best (worst) part, the part that is objectively bad. This is what rushed or bad 3d art looks like.
Blue arrow, you clearly see these things clip into each other.
Red arrow, not aligned at all.
Green arrow, against extremely poor alignment.
View attachment 2932

The blue arrow clearly shows you see a part of the building that is not visible on the opposite end
View attachment 2933

This is the opposite side of the last pic, completely different placement, you don't see the same white area that you do in the last pic.
These things look so amateurish and if you wanna call yourself triple A quality, then you really need to address this.
This is a rookie mistake, or the result of short time. Its the conclusion I come to.
View attachment 2934

And finally the best for last, these pots that have a tree in them.
I mean, this is just bad. You have Tindrem, this place with really cool exotic architecture. Then you have a woodland tree for decoration, in a HUGE pot.
This is bad for several reasons.
1. It is a tree in a pot
2. It is a tree in a pot
3. If the tree has to be in the pot for some reason, don't have that tree in the pot.
4. Remove or change this, please. Pretty please.
View attachment 2936

I am only slightly toxic because I care about this game, and Tindrem just feels so rushed and there are so many blunders and mistakes in this city.
Its impractical, amateurish and bad. If design should affect playability then it should at least look good (protip, unfortunately it does not always).

But it has many many good things too, which I did not cover because those does not need changing.

I totally agree. Tindrem need somemore love. Also there are too many differnt floor testures in some areas !

 

[Anabolic Man]

Along with the minor tweaks you mentioned in regards to spacing, Tindrem's main attractions are in dire need of a facelift as well.

When I imagine The Royal Bank of Tindrem TM I definitely did not picture some generic Roman building asset tucked away in the corner of a clustered "plaza," sitting right beside and in line with a similar-looking building. Elevate it, expand it, and give it its own little plaza/courtyard or something, away from the other buildings. Sort of like the arena area. Just something to make it stand out from the rest of the buildings. If I have to go wandering around looking inside every generic building (or finding some small wooden sign) to find The Bank of Tindrem then we're gonna need another Tagmaton Irruption because Tindrem's gonna need to crumble and be rebuilt at least one more time for these architects to figure something out. Just a lot of wasted space, too. Definitely feels like a bunch of random assets were plopped around the city just to try and make it look full. Could be so much more interesting if the main attractions (bank, priest, library, etc.) were maximized and the facade was minimized.

Bank

View attachment 2938

Cathedral

View attachment 2937

Here is my thread about the visiual recommendations i have !

Some inspiration for roman Towns/Ruins/Houses and maybe some future updates of Tindrem

somehow tindrem is somehow packed with too many objects. All houses are luxurious. I think it needs more monumantal buildings and a lot of space. But that's just my opinion. I like all the other cities very much. The Romans always built a lot of very tall buildings. I think fewer buildings and...

mortalonline2.com

somehow tindrem is somehow packed with too many objects. All houses are luxurious. I think it needs more monumantal buildings and a lot of space. But that's just my opinion. I like all the other cities very much.
The Romans always built a lot of very tall buildings.
I think fewer buildings and monomental buildings would be better.

 

[Anabolic Man]

 

[Anabolic Man]

 

[Anabolic Man]

The roman windows looked like that.
Wood and not marble was used.
Those are small details that bother me about Tindrem.

 

[Backyard Employee]

Old Tindrem was better.

 

[Najwalaylah]

I'm by no means sure thzt's a 'woodland' tree. I am sure that trees in pots go precisely along with the 'exotic' architecture, as they are native to most of it.

You have Tindrem, this place with really cool exotic architecture. Then you have a woodland tree for decoration, in a HUGE pot.
This is bad for several reasons.
1. It is a tree in a pot
2. It is a tree in a pot
3. If the tree has to be in the pot for some reason, don't have that tree in the pot.

Perhaps it's just that in this part of Northern California it's very common to see Tuscan / other Italian style architecture and gardesns, including many, many trees in pots (or in halves of used wine barrels), but I can't understand the ideas behind the objections to 'trees in pots'.

Trees in pots are a staple of Italian & other Mediterranean gardens,both ancient & modern:

ROME, ITALY - JANUARY 27, 2017:
Olive tree in big pot on sidewalk of
della Conciliazione street near Vatican City.​

They go with the mainly Florentine / Greco-Roman thesems of the architecture in Mortal Online 2's Tindrem.

Trees commonly grown in pots in Roman / Italian / Mediterranean gardens include:

Citrus: Lemons, Oranges (Jambura);

Olives (Elaiva), which might be the tree called a 'woodland tree' in that picture above;

Figs

Italian Cypress (Screenshot courtesy of Aegis Imperium)

Conifers (which are, yes, woodland trees when not in a garden).

I don't see the need for controversy over their presence when there are actual spots of poor alignment to fix.

 

[tntdogs]

I'm by no means sure thzt's a 'woodland' tree. I am sure that trees in pots go precisely along with the 'exotic' architecture, as they are native to most of it.
Perhaps it's just that in this part of Northern California it's very common to see Tuscan / other Italian style architecture and gardesns, including many, many trees in pots (or in halves of used wine barrels), but I can't understand the ideas behind the objections to 'trees in pots'.

Trees in pots are a staple of Italian & other Mediterranean gardens,both ancient & modern:

ROME, ITALY - JANUARY 27, 2017:
Olive tree in big pot on sidewalk of
della Conciliazione street near Vatican City.​

They go with the mainly Florentine / Greco-Roman thesems of the architecture in Mortal Online 2's Tindrem.

Trees commonly grown in pots in Roman / Italian / Mediterranean gardens include:

Citrus: Lemons, Oranges (Jambura);

Olives (Elaiva), which might be the tree called a 'woodland tree' in that picture above;

Figs

Italian Cypress (Screenshot courtesy of Aegis Imperium)

Conifers (which are, yes, woodland trees when not in a garden).

I don't see the need for controversy over their presence when there are actual spots of poor alignment to fix.

To be fair you are right, I don't really know what I am talking about regarding any historical reference that is used.
But those pictures you provided look way better than what is in the game.
So the fair criticism should probably be, make the pot smaller if they are gonna use the same (the current one) tree.
Or get a new tree asset that is bigger overall that would look good in that pot, now that I come to think of it. It could actually maybe look real good, but at the moment it just looks silly putting that little vegetation in one huge pot

But yeah, it can probably look awesome but it does not at the moment. Which is also understandable since they probably can't produce a new 3d model just for this one city and this one complaint.

 

[tntdogs]

"wE mAkE aLl OuR aSsEtS."

They don't and it's not even an issue that they don't but not admitting it pisses me off.

From what I have seen on the twitch streams I know Henrik said they actually bought some assets, like those at the inns.
Apples, bread, tables and all that shit are bought assets which I think is completely fine since they look great and fit in well.
But the trees are also bought assets to my understanding, which I think needs to be looked at eventually. You got the tree root problem, and the overall color does not really make it fit in well in some environments, and they all look a bit too similar or just blend in with each other in a bad way I think.

 

[Najwalaylah]

But those pictures you provided look way better than what is in the game.

Yeah, at least a bit. Little tweaks to the assets (or new assets) here and there might help. One of the things UE4 was supposed to introduce to the Mortal Online 2 development process was a certain ease for artists to fix things without necessarily imvolving programmers, so I'm not sure they can't do it.

I know Henrik said they actually bought some assets, like those at the inns.
Apples, bread, tables and all that shit are bought assets which I think is completely fine since they look great and fit in well.

Yes.
And I'm happy when Star Vault don't feel they have to 'reinvent the whell' themselves every time.

 

[Tuhtram]

It seems some of the intention behind Tindrem's design didn't quite translate from MO1 to MO2.

You can see this in the way that MO1 Tindrem's buildings were built, because they were actually more similar to the King's Landing picture here—which seemingly had some Florentine inspirations:

Cathedral

View attachment 2937

Compare to this picture of Tindrem from MO1:

And this art of Florence Italy:

And this Assassin's Creed Free-Roam video of Florence:

This, of course, allows the Arx Primoris to look more fitting as a giant gothic fortress:

This being said, I do think that Tindrem could, if the devs so wished, flow back into the Florentine inspirations if the city were to have more districts added again, with the explanation given that some districts are simply 'Older' than others (the colosseum district's buildings could have some grit and wear added to them to reflect that), and that some collapsed and had to be rebuilt during the events of the irruption—and the Tindremenes were in the height of their pride and looking at their most traditional and 'iconic' architecture.

I do agree about expanding the bank and the library to be more 'grand' as well, they do feel quite small for such a large role. Maybe in another district we'd see an actual huge bank? I could see it in a mercantile district.