Join the PvP/Reputation Protest. Help us to succeed and end the bloodshed.

[Backyard Employee]

Whether I am correct or not really doesn't matter. Like I said i'm a new player and I didn't really realize how the game was until I tried it. It wasn't as bad as you would think from a cursory googling. My point is, over 40K players signed up for this beta and if you take a look at steam charts about 500 concurrent play. Hardcore PvP only games is a very small niche of the gaming community and very few PvP MMOS get a decent player base because of it without also including a lot of non PvP orientated content to appeal to a much larger player base. I assume this reputation system is taking a little from column A the PvPers and giving to column B the PvE crowd to develope a more diverse and wider player base. I don't think thats a huge sacrifice for the PvP community.

So just to address your points:

1. The players currently are much lower then during the beta because it was free, and there were trial keys players could give to friends. This meant more players were playing without paying for the game. Of course it was going to be more populated.
2. The servers simply couldn't handle the amount of players coming, and many are scared off due to the fact it's a single server; rightfully so. Henrik is wanting 8k players but the server would probably shit itself. I'd love to be proved wrong.
3. Sure. It's a niche genre, but I guess the advantage of MO2 right now is it's the ONLY title that really is in it's genre. Anything else is a carbon copy that is privately hosted.

People had a thread a while back about defining hardcore. What is hardcore to you? Losing items on death? Losing structures? Losing things you gathered for hours and hours? Rust falls into that category, but I don't really believe Rust is Hardcore.

Hardcore to me is a game that has danger in it around every corner, and that heavy time sinks can be taken away in a few minutes or even in a matter of seconds if you stumble into the wrong place. The game doesn't guide you much after the tutorial, and you have to figure a lot of stuff out.

A lot of the issues players have with the reputation system is the fact that it's set up to deter players from PvP'ing which is the wrong direction in my opinion. People -think- if you deter players from PvP'ing then griefing will stop, or that new players wont be bullied out of the game. Players will always find a way to push new players or to grief others out of the game, you can do that in -any- game.

It goes deeper then that, the system is just fundamentally busted because if your guild engages another guild you can take rep loss even if you're not the aggressor. You could be the holy of holy guilds, with absolute saints for players; that do no wrong to anyone else and -still- lose rep and suffer the consequences of the rep system due to other players attacking you.

 

[Priamus]

I just want to say that I really like the reputation system. Great job SV!

 

[killah2227]

So just to address your points:

1. The players currently are much lower then during the beta because it was free, and there were trial keys players could give to friends. This meant more players were playing without paying for the game. Of course it was going to be more populated.
2. The servers simply couldn't handle the amount of players coming, and many are scared off due to the fact it's a single server; rightfully so. Henrik is wanting 8k players but the server would probably shit itself. I'd love to be proved wrong.
3. Sure. It's a niche genre, but I guess the advantage of MO2 right now is it's the ONLY title that really is in it's genre. Anything else is a carbon copy that is privately hosted.

People had a thread a while back about defining hardcore. What is hardcore to you? Losing items on death? Losing structures? Losing things you gathered for hours and hours? Rust falls into that category, but I don't really believe Rust is Hardcore.

Hardcore to me is a game that has danger in it around every corner, and that heavy time sinks can be taken away in a few minutes or even in a matter of seconds if you stumble into the wrong place. The game doesn't guide you much after the tutorial, and you have to figure a lot of stuff out.

A lot of the issues players have with the reputation system is the fact that it's set up to deter players from PvP'ing which is the wrong direction in my opinion. People -think- if you deter players from PvP'ing then griefing will stop, or that new players wont be bullied out of the game. Players will always find a way to push new players or to grief others out of the game, you can do that in -any- game.

It goes deeper then that, the system is just fundamentally busted because if your guild engages another guild you can take rep loss even if you're not the aggressor. You could be the holy of holy guilds, with absolute saints for players; that do no wrong to anyone else and -still- lose rep and suffer the consequences of the rep system due to other players attacking you.

We don't know if the players are less than the beta because the game was free or the price of tea in china changed by 10 yuan. I listed those numbers because what MMOs need are retention. Of course the game is going to be played by more people when its free and not subject to a wipe. We really won't find out how many people are going to try to game until it releases.

The point of all this is player retention. How many of X players will stick around Y time. My entire point is while the rep system may or may not suck because it is either A unfinished or B poorly implemented is irrelevant. My point is the developer himself seems to be taking a strong stance on player retention judging by the interview I linked prior.

I am sure you realize bands of players killing everyone they see without provocation or consequence could be an issue for newer players that are not use to UO style of MMOS. And why would the be? UO is over 20 years olds.

What you fail to realize is the reputation system was probably a response to data collected from the players. I don't have the experience to know why since im brand new but reading some steam reviews seems to give a good insight.

 

[Backyard Employee]

We don't know if the players are less than the beta because the game was free or the price of tea in china changed by 10 yuan. I listed those numbers because what MMOs need are retention. Of course the game is going to be played by more people when its free and not subject to a wipe. We really won't find out how many people are going to try to game until it releases.

The point of all this is player retention. How many of X players will stick around Y time. My entire point is while the rep system may or may not suck because it is either A unfinished or B poorly implemented is irrelevant. My point is the developer himself seems to be taking a strong stance on player retention judging by the interview I linked prior.

I am sure you realize bands of players killing everyone they see without provocation or consequence could be an issue for newer players that are not use to UO style of MMOS. And why would the be? UO is over 20 years olds.

What you fail to realize is the reputation system was probably a response to data collected from the players. I don't have the experience to know why since im brand new but reading some steam reviews seems to give a good insight.

I mean, the game costs 40 USD and will have a subscription; that scares people away when it was free to try.

Also the thing is, anyone can quote Henrik including myself but I do it for the exact opposite reason to show most of the time Henrik says things will happen that never do, or gives reasons why that aren't true. He's been saying MO would have boats for years, and years, and years; still no boats.

Early on in the MO2 release we were told combat was going to get way more love with things to break defensive play styles, haven't seen it yet.

Henrik says things that appeals to the person he is speaking with. If a PvE player asks him if they're going to improve PvE, he says they're working on improving PvE. If a PvP player asks him if the combat will improve he'll tell them the combat will improve. Doesn't mean either will happen, that promise of better combat was a year ago.

No, genuinely, I do not see a problem in people acting how they want outside of towns. Bold stance I know. Because in my eyes every problem has a solution, it's just on the player to obtain that solution. It's a sandbox, and sometimes you need to use the sand to play. A lot of times people who are new who die early on complain and say this same thing over and over about how the game is just about getting griefed when in reality people who go back and die over and over are by definition insane.

If you have a problem in-game and what you're trying isn't working, perhaps think about the next steps you take rather then keep being bull headed and fault the game for it. The game is super unfinished and kind of ass for the most part so maybe not all of the solutions needed are present. But repeating what gets you killed is stupid.

It's like when people complain about getting spawn killed. You can't be spawn killed if you don't spawn where it's happening. Sucks, but that's just how it is. Sometimes just waiting people out is the answer to. Just how it works, even vets know this.

The original system in MO1 was once you hit 5 murder counts (or more) you weren't allow at all in blue towns or the guards would otherwise kill you, and the way you would get back into towns was you'd have to wait 8 hours in-game (real life hours) to burn 1 MURDER COUNT. A single MC took 8 HOURS to burn off. So lets say you had 10 murder counts and you wanted back into the town you live in. Have fun being logged in for 2 straight days without killing another person.

While this system isn't NEARLY as archaic as the MO1 variant, it's absurd because of two big reasons.

1. It permanently locks people out who don't adhere to it.
2. There is a lack of options to follow it (i.e. turn ins, quests, etc. Otherways to build rep other then delivering parcels.)

That's my issue with the system. An NPC should be inside every city, and outside of every city; so if people do get locked out they can still redeem themselves to come back in. Being permanently kicked out is just stupid.. and having only one way to build rep is stupid.

 

[Tashka]

Else, I suppose you all will enjoy fighting all the "hardcore PvP players" if you can find them in a world thats so huge an only has 300 players in it.

Yeah i will. You guys come to every game i like, start whining and turn it to ****, then you realise that without hardcore PvP as a core gameplay feature that indie MMO you've just ruined has nothing to do in it, AFK in your safezones for some time and leave. MO1 survived for 10 years, hardcore AND flawed as it was. I'm certain harcore PvP isn't such a small niche as you think.

 

[SilentPony]

We don't know if the players are less than the beta because the game was free or the price of tea in china changed by 10 yuan. I listed those numbers because what MMOs need are retention. Of course the game is going to be played by more people when its free and not subject to a wipe. We really won't find out how many people are going to try to game until it releases.

The point of all this is player retention. How many of X players will stick around Y time. My entire point is while the rep system may or may not suck because it is either A unfinished or B poorly implemented is irrelevant. My point is the developer himself seems to be taking a strong stance on player retention judging by the interview I linked prior.

I am sure you realize bands of players killing everyone they see without provocation or consequence could be an issue for newer players that are not use to UO style of MMOS. And why would the be? UO is over 20 years olds.

What you fail to realize is the reputation system was probably a response to data collected from the players. I don't have the experience to know why since im brand new but reading some steam reviews seems to give a good insight.

I do not believe it possible to build a system that "accustoms" people to full-drop open-world pvp. They either get it and stick with the game, or they don't. It's not like MO2 is the only open-world PvP game with full drop. There are Eve Online, Albion Online and they existed for a while. Problem is when the game tries to cater to PvE-only players that think it unfair that they are getting attacked, robbed and slaughtered. Because the only thing such players will accept is when they cannot be attacked or it becomes so taxing on the attacker that they can gloat for weeks after dying. And I don't want this game to become just another parody of open-world PvP game.

 

[Amelia]

The 300 people that leave the game simply dont like It and not for Just reputation system. Mortal Online still remain a niche game.

 

[Shadowmist]

The standings system is supposed to make killing someone mean something. I mean you hardcore pvpers are asking for MORE pvp when you should be asking for more MEANINGFUL pvp.

Like, why do you RPK? To take someone's loot or just for the hell of it? Killing other players should be a temptation but also be riskym and not just a free for all, and especially since a lot of people play in groups or guilds there and there is strength in numbers, we need a system that discourages a group of 5 from killing anyone who is a group of 4 or fewer.

You SHOULD be able to RPK as much as you want, but it SHOULD also be a very challenging playstyle and a choice not made easily. Not just something you do for the lulz and then farm back to neutral in an hour or two.

 

[PoisonArrows]

I'm not asking for PVE content but for PVP content for people that are interested in it. And also not some boring Arena fights but something in the open world like faction warfare.

I love this comment, Why do people think we the PVPERS need to be Punished if we want to play PVP. When was Mortal Ever a PVE carebare game. Wtf is happening, Who cares about Lore or any of that other shit. Just give us a Working REP SYSTEM and Upgrade Red Cities with a Crusher and other essential BS and Give us some Crafting Benches in houses and let the Homies use the Chest. Just keep killing all the noobs and killing Koto who defends them and eventually the Devs will have to listen to us when Game numbers go down even more then they already are.

 

[PoisonArrows]

The standings system is supposed to make killing someone mean something. I mean you hardcore pvpers are asking for MORE pvp when you should be asking for more MEANINGFUL pvp.

Like, why do you RPK? To take someone's loot or just for the hell of it? Killing other players should be a temptation but also be riskym and not just a free for all, and especially since a lot of people play in groups or guilds there and there is strength in numbers, we need a system that discourages a group of 5 from killing anyone who is a group of 4 or fewer.

You SHOULD be able to RPK as much as you want, but it SHOULD also be a very challenging playstyle and a choice not made easily. Not just something you do for the lulz and then farm back to neutral in an hour or two.

Why? Why should playing a PvP game incur consequences and force us not to be able to play the game at all? Do you have any idea what it's like when you can't even access your bank or craft weapons because Kran has no Crusher and the list of BS just goes on and on. If I wanted to Play MINECRAFT and Build a Cute little town and Smile at 12 year old kids i would. But I thought this was a PvP game i thought they were advertising it as a HardCore FULL LOOT PVP Game. I Didn't know the Game Came with 5 Kills and then you gotta Re-Roll cuz of a Shit Rep System. IF they say this isn't a PVP game anymore I will concede and forget all about this. But as Long as this say this is a HARDCORE PVP FULL LOOT GAME they are going to have to sit at the Table with the Pvp Players and talk to us and fix this shit.

 

[PoisonArrows]

How is this an insult? Lol I played New World and didn’t like it so I, you know, stopped playing it instead of bitching to the devs to make it different…. Like an adult

This is almost 2022 in todays day and age players make games as much as the devs do. If your Player base Hates the changes you make then they will quit. Did you Read that we already lost 300 players and the idiot devs don't listen to us? Toe you must really live in a Shoe because you aren't paying attention, or have the understanding of how the relationship between Devs and Players work in the modern age. This isn't PS2 Sit on the couch 1990s anymore.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Why are you saying that as if it's a good thing?

A carebear is someone who vouches, defends, and approves of mechanics and systems that make the game safer.

So many fucking Carebears in this game dude it's sickening. Why is there not more murderers in this game. It always surprises me. I gotta say i thoroughly enjoy killing every one of the carebears even before I knew i was teaching Henric and the devs a lesson.

 

[PoisonArrows]

The game actually failed due to inconsistent patches, server stability, lack of balance, bugs, and rogue cheaters / exploiters that would crop up in peoples playing.

You're dead wrong on the idea that veterans or players in general play to grief to kill the game. Just because a random thread pops up about someone saying people should do it, doesn't accurately represent everyone else.

I find it's people who assume other players stances are actually ones harmful to the growth, because you make out others to be something they are not.

You want to play as an honest player who doesn't kill? Cool. Let me play as a bandit. It's a sandbox, and with the many choices we can make there are a lot of ways to counter someone like me that doesn't involve a shoe horned rep system.

The Devs were too Oblivious. I knew the game would go down hill once that horrible housing patch made us loose 300 players. MO1 Barely even had 300 players combined and we lost 300 players in 2 seconds cuz of the devs fucking with the Rep system lmao. And the devs are all being quite about it and now they can't fix the damage control. I hope the devs pay for their insolence. They were even deleting Pvp comments on forums a while back and now the mods are allowing them to stay because they know they can't stop us anymore.

 

[PoisonArrows]

The 300 people that leave the game simply dont like It and not for Just reputation system. Mortal Online still remain a niche game.

Try again. 300 people leave when the worst patch of all time happens the Housing Rep patch. The 300 leaving is tied directly to PVP not existing in this game. You can look up on steam the numbers and see no other time have we lost that many people at once.

 

[PoisonArrows]

The standings system is supposed to make killing someone mean something. I mean you hardcore pvpers are asking for MORE pvp when you should be asking for more MEANINGFUL pvp.

Like, why do you RPK? To take someone's loot or just for the hell of it? Killing other players should be a temptation but also be riskym and not just a free for all, and especially since a lot of people play in groups or guilds there and there is strength in numbers, we need a system that discourages a group of 5 from killing anyone who is a group of 4 or fewer.

You SHOULD be able to RPK as much as you want, but it SHOULD also be a very challenging playstyle and a choice not made easily. Not just something you do for the lulz and then farm back to neutral in an hour or two.

I like to RPK because I want to Kill as many people as possible. I'm like a Serial Killer that wants to get as many names crossed off my list before the Police finally catch me. And Kill We Will, No one can stop us. No one can stop the Beast Masters and the Miscreants Kran is Locked down it's our home. Every game needs the bad guys, without someone to be the Bad guys the game wouldn't have PvP. In Short We PVP because we LIKE PVP and We aren't here playing this game for PVE.


Meaningful PVP? Oh man you must be new here. These Devs can't conjure up anything meaningful if they had 10 years to do it. The community is what makes the Events in this game. Because the Devs are too lazy to give us any sort of Events. There's only 1 place worth fighting over and that is GK for the Tephra in that Crater. The Devs Patch and Nerf to hell everything else in the game before release even happens and they don't even give us any other content.

 

[Toerin]

This is almost 2022 in todays day and age players make games as much as the devs do. If your Player base Hates the changes you make then they will quit. Did you Read that we already lost 300 players and the idiot devs don't listen to us? Toe you must really live in a Shoe because you aren't paying attention, or have the understanding of how the relationship between Devs and Players work in the modern age. This isn't PS2 Sit on the couch 1990s anymore.

You think you matter more than you do and that’s very sad. People who make things are the people that make things. You just bitch and wine when people make things that you don’t in hopes that people give you what you want like an entitled little child. Not everything you buy is obligated to be exactly how you want it Karen. The fact that the devs aren’t listening to your demands should tell you two things: 1 they’re sales department understand you are the minority voice of people who play this game and 2 that the devs making the decision to effect rep in this way is deliberate. In short, the game they want to make (and are making) is at odds with what game you want to play. So be an adult, and if you don’t like what the game IS play another game, instead of being a petulant little child, and ruining it for everyone else who is happy with playing it how it is. This shouldn’t be this hard to understand. Play the games you like and if they haven’t been made yet then go and make them.

 

[PoisonArrows]

You think you matter more than you do and that’s very sad. People who make things are the people that make things. You just bitch and wine when people make things that you don’t in hopes that people give you what you want like an entitled little child. Not everything you buy is obligated to be exactly how you want it Karen. The fact that the devs aren’t listening to your demands should tell you two things: 1 they’re sales department understand you are the minority voice of people who play this game and 2 that the devs making the decision to effect rep in this way is deliberate. In short, the game they want to make (and are making) is at odds with what game you want to play. So be an adult, and if you don’t like what the game IS play another game, instead of being a petulant little child, and ruining it for everyone else who is happy with playing it how it is. This shouldn’t be this hard to understand. Play the games you like and if they haven’t been made yet then go and make them.

Did this moron just call me a Karen lmao and tell me to grow up. You are such a Clueless loser frankly it's embarrassing to try to destroy my argument by claiming my opinion doesn't matter when I have 2k Viewers on this thread and everyone who does PvP hates the Rep Changes. Listen here Cucky, the reason this post has 2k Views is BECAUSE people agree with Me. Nobody wants Mortal Online to Turn into PVE carebear Online. Holy shit please stop talking about SV like they have a Sales Team or are part of some Professional Entity. Do you have any idea how pathetic this game truly is? THEY DON'T KNOW HOW to Advertise. When has SV ever Advertised or Marketed anything? NECRO/Elementalism/Sard/Lyks/Molvas and half the shit from MO1 isn't even in MO2. Every person and their grandma is making videos mocking StarVault and talking about How Bad and Terrible this game is. MO1 had like 300 Players tops and MO2 isn't doing any better. THEY STILL HAVE BUGS from MO1 in MO2. ANd the reason is because the devs are fucking mental. This game if you can even call is a game has nothing to do in it except PvP and they can't even get that part right. They took the games in game community tournaments as part of their release Video it's embarrassing and claimed there was Millions of Crafting Options to Mislead people. That isn't good Marketing, good Marketing would be having everything from MO1 with some extra spice thrown in to make MO2 Seem like a Number2 instead of a Shitter game that can't even compete with Number1. Along with a ton of their other lies the community is fed up and tired of this garbage company and instead of becoming a better company they run away and take "Skill and Hardcore" out of their advertising. Because they know they can't perform to the level of a "hardcore Pvp game" so they are running away from it. What does that tell you simpleton? It tells you that the true fans of this game are the PVP fans and that SV is running away from us with no dignity left. If it wasn't for us carrying this game on our backs for 10 years SV would have gone out of business a long time ago.

 

[Toerin]

Did this moron just call me a Karen lmao and tell me to grow up. You are such a Clueless loser frankly it's embarrassing to try to destroy my argument by claiming my opinion doesn't matter when I have 2k Viewers on this thread and everyone who does PvP hates the Rep Changes. Listen here Cucky, the reason this post has 2k Views is BECAUSE people agree with Me. Nobody wants Mortal Online to Turn into PVE carebear Online. Holy shit please stop talking about SV like they have a Sales Team or are part of some Professional Entity. Do you have any idea how pathetic this game truly is? THEY DON'T KNOW HOW to Advertise. When has SV ever Advertised or Marketed anything? NECRO/Elementalism/Sard/Lyks/Molvas and half the shit from MO1 isn't even in MO2. Every person and their grandma is making videos mocking StarVault and talking about How Bad and Terrible this game is. MO1 had like 300 Players tops and MO2 isn't doing any better. THEY STILL HAVE BUGS from MO1 in MO2. ANd the reason is because the devs are fucking mental. This game if you can even call is a game has nothing to do in it except PvP and they can't even get that part right. They took the games in game community tournaments as part of their release Video it's embarrassing and claimed there was Millions of Crafting Options to Mislead people. That isn't good Marketing, good Marketing would be having everything from MO1 with some extra spice thrown in to make MO2 Seem like a Number2 instead of a Shitter game that can't even compete with Number1. Along with a ton of their other lies the community is fed up and tired of this garbage company and instead of becoming a better company they run away and take "Skill and Hardcore" out of their advertising. Because they know they can't perform to the level of a "hardcore Pvp game" so they are running away from it. What does that tell you simpleton? It tells you that the true fans of this game are the PVP fans and that SV is running away from us with no dignity left. If it wasn't for us carrying this game on our backs for 10 years SV would have gone out of business a long time ago.

You are either a pre adolescent or have no clue about economics and how the real world works. Maybe the thing SV learnt from MO1 is that it couldn’t operate with only 300 customers. hmmm isn’t that the number of people you say are going to leave this game? Maybe they figured they need to make a game that appeals to more than 300 people Lolol

 

[Lord Hair Remover]

You are either a pre adolescent or have no clue about economics and how the real world works. Maybe the thing SV learnt from MO1 is that it couldn’t operate with only 300 customers. hmmm isn’t that the number of people you say are going to leave this game? Maybe they figured they need to make a game that appeals to more than 300 people Lolol

You won't last in the game.

 

[Toerin]

You won't last in the game.

I have absolutely know idea what that means. It’s not even in relation to the post you’re quoting. Lol