I just tired of all the tedious time wasting in this game.
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Dracu
Guest
Maybe Qualiy of life Buffs?
Faster gathering
More yields
Faster extraction
Better XP gain
Shrink food/ Growth Food
Slight stat buffs (nothing op)
Sophistication(if that will ever matter)
Maybe some special stuff (can see further at night)
Just some random ideas.
More utility for food, I'm all for. Though a lot of this appears as just buff buff buff which doesn't necessarily make what we already have any better and becomes a balancing issue to boot. I'd argue some of the more simpler survival aspects of games that have you consuming food appropriately, are just as if not more engaging.
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I agree that better options may exist to get the same result, but requiring greater timesinks absolutely makes the game more hardcore. When any action in the game requires more time, it adds value to that action. If you want Desert Horses/Saburra you have to spend the time to travel to the resource, if you want Tephra it's the same. It may seem asinine to have the reserve system cause a greater timesink for every single player, but it certainly adds value to the Cooking profession and production of high tier foods.
Whether or not you agree with the sheer amount of timesinks that SV has added to the game is a different point, and there are many I believe to be unnecessary and harmful to the QoL in game.
This game needs years more development time not months, and the "in mo1 things were much worse", "its just a beta get over yourself," and "things will get better with more population," people need to wake up and learn what nuance is. Mo1 is a dead game so being better than a dead game is setting the bar so low that it might as well not even be there. Now is exactly the time to complain about these problems because anyone playing this game right now is one of those people that are really hard to lose, but when the influx of new blood comes in how many are really gonna stay if all of these problems the current players and "MO vets" are talking about dont get fixed. There are skills in the skill tab that are still not even implemented yet, there are lores for items and mobs not in the game. Hell there are still skills that were in MO1 that aren't in yet. How can you be okay with MO2 launching with less of a game than MO1. Sure the graphical update is cool and all but graphics don't matter when the gameplay is suffering.
It’s something I’ve thought of as well. My main purpose for disliking it is that it doesn’t add any positive gameplay experience—people don’t go “oh yeah I *love* the reserve system”. They either argue it’s hardcore and therefore must stay, or they argue it’s tedious and not entertaining. As was pointed out, a use for cooking (that doesn’t replace alchemy) would have to be thought up. The workarounds are basically infinite there though IMO, and they are out there.
Henrik had this to say in an interview a couple months ago, and I think should keep it in mind when discussing systems like this—and what SV’s intentions are for MO2:
“Q:Mortal Online 2 makes no apologies for being a hardcore game, and we love that about it. That said, we fear there is a risk of making the target audience too niche. How do you intend to balance the hardcore appeal with a high-enough player count to make the world feel alive?
A: Very good question and I think its an important question to cover for all players.
MO1 was indeed extremely hardcore in every possible way. People hated or loved it, but it was also hardcore in many bad ways that simply pushed players away. Over the years, we have gone through all the data and learnt a ton. We strongly believe there is plenty of room for bringing a successful true sandbox MMORPG to the world, especially if these sensitive mechanics are balanced and tweaked. There is a large audience for it and there is also a new growing audience coming from games with similar mechanics.”
Henrik had this to say in an interview a couple months ago, and I think should keep it in mind when discussing systems like this—and what SV’s intentions are for MO2:
“Q:Mortal Online 2 makes no apologies for being a hardcore game, and we love that about it. That said, we fear there is a risk of making the target audience too niche. How do you intend to balance the hardcore appeal with a high-enough player count to make the world feel alive?
A: Very good question and I think its an important question to cover for all players.
MO1 was indeed extremely hardcore in every possible way. People hated or loved it, but it was also hardcore in many bad ways that simply pushed players away. Over the years, we have gone through all the data and learnt a ton. We strongly believe there is plenty of room for bringing a successful true sandbox MMORPG to the world, especially if these sensitive mechanics are balanced and tweaked. There is a large audience for it and there is also a new growing audience coming from games with similar mechanics.”
D
Dracu
Guest
My god this more time = value talk is so freaking annoying. No! Annoying to get doesnt just mean more value it first and formost means less fun. Why the f* would ppl want to play stuff that isnt fun? This is a game right? Or is this second life?
But yeah it feels like henrik wants to make some kind of simulator that has real jobs and stuff but tbh how many players look at mo2 like that? To most dedicated players i know its a war game rather then a life simulator. Yet all stuff implemted seems to concentrate to make things less that and more boring simulation. Everything gets more tedious, take longer but it doesnt make it meaningfull... it just takes the fun out of it.
But yeah it feels like henrik wants to make some kind of simulator that has real jobs and stuff but tbh how many players look at mo2 like that? To most dedicated players i know its a war game rather then a life simulator. Yet all stuff implemted seems to concentrate to make things less that and more boring simulation. Everything gets more tedious, take longer but it doesnt make it meaningfull... it just takes the fun out of it.
I think we have to step back and look at things from a different perspective. Weight gain/weight loss doesn't have to be tied to the reserve system. The only reason people act like it does is because that's all we've known.
In my opinion the largest parts of the issue are that it isn't at all intuitive, and it's something we have to constantly micromanage because it's tied to reserves.
Everything makes you gain or lose weight if it messes with your reserves in one way or another. It's something you constantly have to monitor and keep an eye on. It has major glaring sinkholes for new players to accidentally stumble into, like not realizing they're gaining a huge amount of weight from something as simple as cooking a pig and eating it. Who wouldn't just cook something that's running around every major town and eat it?
In my opinion weight gain and weight loss, from the player side of things, should be intentional rather than accidental.
- Make weight gain and weight loss stats that are shown when you mouse over food.
- Make weight gain and weight loss only happen when eating those foods.
- Make most food lack the 'weight gain' or 'weight loss' stat.
- Make it intuitive and flow better.
- Ingredients like butter, cream, oil, etc. could have 'weight gain' stats.
- Ingredients like water, certain vegetables, certain juices, (maybe even certain minerals?), could have 'weight loss' stats.
- Certain food types should give additional weight gain bonuses.
- Pies
- Beer
- Deep fried food
- Certain food types should give additional weight loss bonuses.
- Decoctions
- Make weight not change as quickly when you are messing with it.
Then food being tied to the reserves system isn't nearly as irritating. It still has a use, and you don't have to monitor your weight class—it only changes intentionally. Food that replenishes a massive amount of health reserves would still have a use. Cooks wouldn't be out of a job, everyone's happier.
This is one of the 3 core reasons I never really played MO1. That said, this version does not feel as difficult, though that may very well be because of the current settings around skills/stats and such.
I'll also add that, like many of you, I have not been playing nearly as much as I had earlier in the beta. That's not a commentary on the game's quality of life though. For me, its because the closer we get to release, the more meaningless the current game play becomes because its all for naught. At this point I would rather have access to the their test server to test specific features and find bugs.
I like it when people quote Stuff Henrik Said, actually said, and love it when they prod him to live up to ti.
I Cooked in MO1. The reserve system seemed to me to mean that I seldom needed to eat, myself, and when I did, I had to stick mostly to water to keep from going overweight. Some players scoffed at Sophistication (and who can blame them), even after it was thoroughly explained. People didn't need three meals "a day", no matter what. If they did need a meal, they could eat the simplest stuff and it was best for them.
To add insult to injury,
I don't think anyone at Star Vault then, and perhaps no-one at Star Vault now, really appreciated Cooking*; I surmise it was viewed as work unfit for warriors due to it not being enough like ROSMT; and I'd like to see the problems fixed, the system made wholesome, the produce of it made truly desirable, and the attitude adjusted.
* And don't get me started on how sadistic SV was toward Butchers. Butchery wasn't a "play"style; it was a work-style. At least my Cook had fun selling SUSPICIOUSLY DELICIOUS MEAT TREATSª™ like RatOnnaStick.
I Cooked in MO1. The reserve system seemed to me to mean that I seldom needed to eat, myself, and when I did, I had to stick mostly to water to keep from going overweight. Some players scoffed at Sophistication (and who can blame them), even after it was thoroughly explained. People didn't need three meals "a day", no matter what. If they did need a meal, they could eat the simplest stuff and it was best for them.
To add insult to injury,
- Star Vault held a GM #vent that got a lot of people to turn in (and lose) masses of the better & harder to get ingredients they had stockpiled during the first parts of the game
- --and then, they wiped the Sophistication that had accumulated from those meals in the early year, and removed many properties from food ingredients, mumbling something about how 'none of that counts because it wasn't working as we intended, yet', paraphrased. That shit happened. Yes, I said shit.
- My Cook had a Sprint speed that was slower than her Walk, which tells you everything you might need to know about what a really good cook needed as far as Skills. Even so, I had to dedicate part of another character's time to Grinding her Flour and pressing her Oils & Juices.
- A demon-haunted Cursed Object ("Relic")-- those things were EVIL-- dropped from the sky that filled up some Reserves without the need to eat (and Inns sort of accomplished the same thing; they were a place to go to sleep hungry).
I don't think anyone at Star Vault then, and perhaps no-one at Star Vault now, really appreciated Cooking*; I surmise it was viewed as work unfit for warriors due to it not being enough like ROSMT; and I'd like to see the problems fixed, the system made wholesome, the produce of it made truly desirable, and the attitude adjusted.
* And don't get me started on how sadistic SV was toward Butchers. Butchery wasn't a "play"style; it was a work-style. At least my Cook had fun selling SUSPICIOUSLY DELICIOUS MEAT TREATSª™ like RatOnnaStick.
So you want to harm everyones play time and game experience just so they have to eat food... Food is not a fun mechanic in MO2. Its a tedious management time sink. Its horrible game design to limit and take away from your players then call it a feature or content. Just like stamina they took away regen from players when they game was designed around a set regen with out the penalty. Now most of the game is negatively effected
MO2 food system is garbage and Non-content. Even before you add in reserves which make it a actual negative to the game. If SV doesn't want to do a real food system that adds to the game then they should have a half implemented one that makes the game less fun.
Food being usefull by Henriks words is not the reason for the reserve system. The reserve systems sole existence is to stop zergs from respawning. That thought that it hurts zergs more then smaller groups is a problem. Then the issue of it negatively effecting the vast majority of the game to solve one issue which is solvable in other manners.
I think the right word for SVs game design choices is sadistic. Lets harm our players experience and then give them a way to cope with it but it will be a time sink.
This isnt hardcore, this is just wasting time. Hardcore would actually be hard not tedious, monotonous task of no challenge. You played the game and now are greybar. You need to sit down and time sink for x minutes and then eat food which is also a time sink that you.
The issue with MO2 is it doesnt know what it wants to be. It wants to be this epic medieval combat fighting over territory mmo, while also being a timesink waste ur time doing nothing and calling it depth game, aka, hardcore sandbox mmo. Its trying to cater to two extremely different groups of players, which doesnt work. The changes to make the pve sandbox players not quit just makes the pvp players want to quit.
You arent wrong, but I wish they could make those time investments not feel like garbage. Noting I do in MO2 feels like an investment, even if it wasn't a beta. And any chance it had of feeling liek an investment is canceled out by that it felt like it wasted too much time to be worth it. It even takes too much time to even have fun to not feel worth logging in.
The chore to fun balance is extremely out of whack in MO2. Most of the time spent in game isnt spent playing it.
If you want the chores for fun to be this slanted to chores then the chores need to be enjoyable. Not press e on a rock and wait. Most people arent multi clienting anymore, just like when we got refining time lessened because its a waste of time that people did AFK on alts while actually playing.
The games main time sink is travel Ghost or living which is not necessarily bad. It adds balance but its already a major time sink so all other time sink stack ontop of it. Now with regen nerfs traveling on foot alive is more tedious and managing. Along with the reserve system giving grey bar which means you need to time sink into sitting, or eat which is a time sink that is a lot time sinked by hunger. All these time sink are AFK/non interactive. Just making stam food is two different processes of AFK but you have to stay at the PC to manage the picking of stam food, while looking over your shoulder usually when you grind it. So you cant even AFK, you just have to sit their and wait while your character does nothing for a couple of hours.
Just like most gathering which is a time sink adds onto the stack of time sinks is gathering wood or rocks. These being a bit less bad then grain as you can hit the same resource for a while longer before needing to move on. But with mobs which bandits are a bit better now its mainly a tedious chore to fight. But since its interactive it is more forgivable. To bad mobs dont really give anything you want, or have cool drops outside of a couple of things that you get and not need anymore.
Do alot of things just to PvP and now they make PvP harsher with the rep changes and people still complain about horse killing. At least this part isnt like MO1 and you are actually allowed to PvP. But PvP is also time gated by needing to go grind rep. Not only a chore for getting gear to PvP but a chore to get rep. A chore to ghost or ride over to risars, then to rest for greybar, then to kill risars and wait for respawns. Some of these time sinks are OK but that all stack to make a experience that causes you to spend far too much time doing chores which most are not entertaining to just play the game.
Also to mention as a side thing that you are also time gated by needing other people inorder to do most content in the game. You need a group for minos, you can do bandits by your self still-ish but they want you to have more people. Risars can be solo'd still for now if you are a fighter. But most bosses are group oriented and most roaming PvP is you coming up on a group of people. Just another side thing to think about in terms of time spent in game to time playing the game.
Here’s the thing man. If they change it, it can only go in 1 direction and that’s becoming 100 times worse
I generally agree with the sentiment but this food topic is confusing me. it’s the most casual thing in the game right now. In the sense that it only takes 1 primary mammalia and you can cook pigs right outside.
contrast that to something like life is feudal where the whole game revolves around grinding for a month straight with the best food possible.
99% of the changes stem from random complaints and just like a head on collision the cause is usually over correction.
see all these combat penalties and int curve changes and weight class changes if you want to know what I’m talking about.
you’re gonna end up making it so we all need to spend all of our time cooking on accident.
100% agree that suicide change was garbo though, and the weight loss and gain is an over all bad mechanic.
I’ve yet to see any creative way for henrik to fix a problem. It’s usually just slap a penalty on it or nerf something and that’s the last thing we need right now. Not saying there haven’t been any qol improvements in general.
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I simply had to come back after seeing this thread randomly just on an off chance of seeing how the forums were doing.
It's quite laughable how people are actually attempting to laugh off and poke fun at a guy not wanting to play. Perhaps this is the same player mentality and sheep like behavior which killed the game prior to this one, no?
Even though this individual focuses on such ideas as reserves and food - he makes a very important point about this game - it is obnoxiously filled with tedious, pointless grinds which end up being done either AFK or involving as little as 10% of your full attention.
Really, think about it.
When you gather things you stand still and there is no interaction. You simply wait for the resources to fill your bag. No mini game, no movement. Just press the gather button and walk away.
Farming creatures? You just bug them out or break their LoS so that they can't hit you.
Oh you wish to go from Fabernum to Meduli? That'll take you hours to do so, with no content in between the two along the way.
The combat? It feels like they're taking a New World approach and casualizing anything they can about it so that anyone can pick it up and feel like they're able to fight - yet there is one server which causes massive latency differences between players. (Combat balanced around ping is ridiculous anyway).
Armor crafting, weapon crafting, any kind of crafting is just spamming repeats of items that aren't worth using.
The AI is bland, boring, and broken. I've seen it used in PvP as well, wasn't that one of the big problems in the first game? I saw videos of groups of players attacking pets in the first Mortal and not kill them - I can only wonder where this'll go (Honestly seems like they're just making the same mistakes.)
I've seen a severe cut and butchering of necessary mechanics and features being put off "after launch" even though many of them are pivotal in a game like this.
The game just has so many problems and it appears Star Vault hadn't actually learned and applied their boasted 10+ years of experience. I see from time to time the CEO attempting to do positive PR on Twitch but it's mostly him playing with face rigs and showing screen shots - he strikes me like a snake oil salesmen. "Oh this game will be amazing! 40k people are waiting to play it."
I know some will read this and disagree, but I find these are the same people who would of purchased the 149 dollar package and felt playing this entire time from "alpha" to "beta" that they've had their money's worth out of it even though all this time it has revealed the game is still clearly in an alpha state and is crazy for even considering a launch date so soon.
But, I digress. I find no matter how much time Star Vault irons out their bugs and brings in new and essential features and mechanics - they lack the ability to properly introduce things, balance them, and above all make them fun.
This game will have an initial boon in population upon steam release but I don't see it lasting very long and closely resembling the Mortal Online 1 steam chart numbers and patterns.
Players will not go for single server MMO's where your character, items, and time is at risk. Only the truly dedicated (and frankly rose tinted glass wearers) and delusional who think as time goes on things will simply "work out" or "get better", I implore you to look into the history of Mortal and Star Vault.
Yours Truly,
Lord Hair Remover
Splitter of Wigs, Remover of Hair, and Eternal Ruler of Gaul'kor
Rest in peace DUKENUKEM - Only those of a wise mind know your untimely demise was simply but a PR stunt to calm the troubled waters.
It's quite laughable how people are actually attempting to laugh off and poke fun at a guy not wanting to play. Perhaps this is the same player mentality and sheep like behavior which killed the game prior to this one, no?
Even though this individual focuses on such ideas as reserves and food - he makes a very important point about this game - it is obnoxiously filled with tedious, pointless grinds which end up being done either AFK or involving as little as 10% of your full attention.
Really, think about it.
When you gather things you stand still and there is no interaction. You simply wait for the resources to fill your bag. No mini game, no movement. Just press the gather button and walk away.
Farming creatures? You just bug them out or break their LoS so that they can't hit you.
Oh you wish to go from Fabernum to Meduli? That'll take you hours to do so, with no content in between the two along the way.
The combat? It feels like they're taking a New World approach and casualizing anything they can about it so that anyone can pick it up and feel like they're able to fight - yet there is one server which causes massive latency differences between players. (Combat balanced around ping is ridiculous anyway).
Armor crafting, weapon crafting, any kind of crafting is just spamming repeats of items that aren't worth using.
The AI is bland, boring, and broken. I've seen it used in PvP as well, wasn't that one of the big problems in the first game? I saw videos of groups of players attacking pets in the first Mortal and not kill them - I can only wonder where this'll go (Honestly seems like they're just making the same mistakes.)
I've seen a severe cut and butchering of necessary mechanics and features being put off "after launch" even though many of them are pivotal in a game like this.
The game just has so many problems and it appears Star Vault hadn't actually learned and applied their boasted 10+ years of experience. I see from time to time the CEO attempting to do positive PR on Twitch but it's mostly him playing with face rigs and showing screen shots - he strikes me like a snake oil salesmen. "Oh this game will be amazing! 40k people are waiting to play it."
I know some will read this and disagree, but I find these are the same people who would of purchased the 149 dollar package and felt playing this entire time from "alpha" to "beta" that they've had their money's worth out of it even though all this time it has revealed the game is still clearly in an alpha state and is crazy for even considering a launch date so soon.
But, I digress. I find no matter how much time Star Vault irons out their bugs and brings in new and essential features and mechanics - they lack the ability to properly introduce things, balance them, and above all make them fun.
This game will have an initial boon in population upon steam release but I don't see it lasting very long and closely resembling the Mortal Online 1 steam chart numbers and patterns.
Players will not go for single server MMO's where your character, items, and time is at risk. Only the truly dedicated (and frankly rose tinted glass wearers) and delusional who think as time goes on things will simply "work out" or "get better", I implore you to look into the history of Mortal and Star Vault.
Yours Truly,
Lord Hair Remover
Splitter of Wigs, Remover of Hair, and Eternal Ruler of Gaul'kor
Rest in peace DUKENUKEM - Only those of a wise mind know your untimely demise was simply but a PR stunt to calm the troubled waters.
The travel time sink for me is the biggest killer of all. The world is way to big for me to want to roam around and have to come back if I got loot I want to stash. But they keep killing any ability to get action in the town you live in so being a town thug is completely dead as a playstyle. So theres just no hope. Its spend 90% of my nightly game session walking and riding, to hope I dont get zerged if I find someone, or go playa different game., The choice is really easy to make.
So the issue with this. Its just more proof that the game direction is bad and its worth just leaving. If the game can only get worse not sure why anyone should play it. Because in its current state its definitely not good enough to warrant buying, subbing , and sinking huge amount of hours into, when theres tons of other games I could go play instead. That take less time, give more fun per time spent, and cost less. And the game isnt doing anything to change any of these issues.
(See Below)
Usually? Always, my son. Always.
(As Above) I am totally disinclined to the idea that you should be able to AFK, in this game or the other one. Eventually that call of Nature comes when everyone wishes that he could, but it really shouldn't be possible or necessary, and my sympathy for those who find it impossible is totally lacking. It's not a point of argument. If something adds value and doesn't take so long that the average player who really wants to do the activity in the first place finds it borind, some wait time should be acceptable.
- Note that if someone doesn't really want to do whatever it is to begin with, and resents the entire process, then his opinion of how long it takes isn't ever going to be that informative to the Devs.
- The Devs should note that by the time someone eager and willing provides the same addition of value for the umpteenth time, the thrill of victory over the raw elements of food or whatever is somewhat diminished, and the time it takes-- even when you're skilled, and used to it-- has a bit of tedium in it.
- The only thing that never gets old is wondering if you're going to be targeted by robbers or caught up in some other slaughter.
I ground a lot of flour in my time, and I can't say it ever took hours. If it takes or ever took anyone hours, then they are finding more grains than I ever found (which sounds good) at one time (which, I say modestly, wasn't possible back in the day) or they stockpiled it longer before grinding (which would never have met the demand seen in my time) or grinding flour has been made to take a lot longer in MO2
If it really feels to you as if you're doing absolutely nothing, you should pay someone else to do it. They'll feel useful and you'll feel free: Win/Win.
I think of it as peddling my patience.
It's a skill that matters, and can be a valuable commodity. It doesn't have the glamour of decapitation or thievery or empire-building among those who share videos or make war on the forums, but "They also serve who only stand and wait."
The problem that i'm seeing is that the game designer does not play every class in the game or even very much of the game at all.
It would be similar to trying to get to a final destination with your eyes closed.
He means well, but he can't really determine who to listen to or not. He just assumes the people who feign the most niceness with him also then have the best of intentions when they often don't.