Add Moment of Vulnerability after Parry
- Thread starter PoisonArrows
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I watch it and almost want to cry. especially some of the instant 360s I was doing.
Don't think I could be any sadder at what happened in beta, really.
say what you want about spinning, but I played the game how I wanted to and its gone. You gotta give me that.
Anyway we'll see an influx of players and I anticipate people will cite the combat being way too slow, but I could be wrong.
I just don't follow the logic.
One guy says the combat is good slow because more people can enjoy it, even though it negatively impacts the skill floor and skill ceiling.
Yet in my eyes where games have a somewhat mid skill floor and high skill ceiling, it incentivizes people to actually get better at something whereas with this current combat you learn some gimmicks and if your with a guild / group, just don't push randomly, focus targets, and call out stuff that is needed.
The combat is so dumbed down its boring. But the game wants to tout it around like its a big part of the game without actually making it fun.
One guy says the combat is good slow because more people can enjoy it, even though it negatively impacts the skill floor and skill ceiling.
Yet in my eyes where games have a somewhat mid skill floor and high skill ceiling, it incentivizes people to actually get better at something whereas with this current combat you learn some gimmicks and if your with a guild / group, just don't push randomly, focus targets, and call out stuff that is needed.
The combat is so dumbed down its boring. But the game wants to tout it around like its a big part of the game without actually making it fun.
Low/mid skill floor means that your most dedicated aka hardcore players who are usually driving the game will get board and then quite.
You need high skill ceiling and if you had a mid level skill floor more people would be interested.
If you just make a low skill floor mid skill ceiling the game then you are just shooting your game in the foot and dooming it to mediocrity.
MO2 has some hard walls to get past due high latency to get high skill gameplay but its one of the biggest bad points of the game is the low skill ceiling.
You need high skill ceiling and if you had a mid level skill floor more people would be interested.
If you just make a low skill floor mid skill ceiling the game then you are just shooting your game in the foot and dooming it to mediocrity.
MO2 has some hard walls to get past due high latency to get high skill gameplay but its one of the biggest bad points of the game is the low skill ceiling.
No, I was speaking to emdash. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish with what he was saying. Then posted some weird video
Almost like the game isn't completely tuned towards 1v1 trihards that spend all day playing and is actually geared towards group fights. Hm
The irony being I wasn't a dueler at all in the first game.
Everything i'm saying is true of group fights.
movement speed probably being chief among them.
???????????????
The group fights look slow and clunky, what are you talking about?
And thats a problem. What you are basically is saying that the combat isnt for people who are dedicated enough to practice and train to increase their ability in the game. Group fights isnt that much skill nor special. Its mainly just holding your swing in different directions and focusing on people.
Many people will see no point in playing a low skill ceiling game because their is not room for self improvement and then the game is boring.
This games biggest issue is the lower skill cieling which means a lot less content for the fighter PvE and PvP.
A lot of people really don't understand how important this fact alone is.
There are plenty of games that 'watered down' their combat ideas in exchange for something more usable in a newer and or lesser skilled players hands.
Anyone who played MO1 and PvP'd a good bit can tell you MO2 is the easier of the two games, but it is also much slower and more rigid. It's also just under developed.
As an Oceanic player, I became very salty when I first played MO2 and realized my playstyle from MO1 had been neutered and forced me into turtle gameplay, which I'm not a fan of. If I want to master broken animations, cheese mechanics and play some jedi mind tricks, I'll play Mordhau.
MO2 lacks offensive capabilities in PvP to break defensive players. I get SV want to balance between all connections, but the current implementation of combat mechanics just makes PvP feel slow, sluggish and somehow more clunky than MO1. MO1 actually feels fluid compared to MO2 combat, and that shouldn't be the case.
#bringbackflurrying
Sorry Sneeze, video is a good example of flurry beans.
MO2 lacks offensive capabilities in PvP to break defensive players. I get SV want to balance between all connections, but the current implementation of combat mechanics just makes PvP feel slow, sluggish and somehow more clunky than MO1. MO1 actually feels fluid compared to MO2 combat, and that shouldn't be the case.
#bringbackflurrying
at first glance the new mo2 fight might seem slow and with no way to break the opponent's defenses. But you are very wrong, just play it a little more seriously and you will find out how to do it.
Nice flurries. Some people lost duels to it in MO 2 and cried so hard and thats why we're where we're at.
Same reason why jumping takes 900 stam etc.
its all just for someone to win more duels xd
Any competent PvPer won't fall for anything the game currently offers in combat mechanics, it just results in parry trades until someone eventually fuck ups, or someone starts pulling out the spins and looking up animation tricks.
I'm not wrong, I understand the combat mechanics in MO2 quite well. SV has attempted to level the playing field by slowing down combat focusing on time windows to suit ping normalization - And they executed it poorly. There's a reason a lot of MO1 vets have been complaining for a long time, because the combat mechanics are a bit lack luster.
Yeh, some design decisions for mechanics aren't that great. But hey we are apparently very wrong according to these new blood.
idk im doing very well feinting reposts and attacking with right distances. its another playstyle. And i think groupfights are still funny, where stamina managment and focuses matters. ofc there are some things to adjust.. but comparing it to mo1 is a joke.
I don't really have any good examples of recent duels since i'm not really playing,
but it isn't as if I can't participate in the game/combat system.
The best analogy I would have is if in starcraft 2 they made it so you could only play terran and could only make marines.
removing entire swathes of combat styles is not a good idea and putting poison in the ear of Henrik to do so is sad
And this my friends is why I say magic is OP. Cant be parried. Same with MA.
To actually contribute to the topic. I think a possible solution is make parry damage higher. If you sit there getting hits for 5's over and over its going to add up. And then make big boy weapons that are slow and garbage do extra parry damage.
Parry hits could also lower the person parryings stam so that they cant just be full stam while they sit back and do nothing while the person actually trying to win blows stam.
Also you should be able to stam up while swinging and not sprinting. That way if they stand there parrying you can stand there swinging and eventually will get a hit in / they die to parry damage if they never fight back.
@Teknique I love how you can hit him before he does an animation and he can still get a parry lmao. Fighting as nubs in this game is fun but the second players know what they are doing and arent using a nerf sword that swings at the speed of light, the melee combat 1v1 is just so lame.
At the end of the day theres not a ton SV can do while wanting the melee combat to be parry based. Because this is always what happens, its the same reason I hate Mordhau. Its just a parrying contest, which if one player is good a worsep layer will never land a hit. and 2 good players its just an aids fest of doing jank stuff to try and get a hit in. I greatly prefer hit trade based combat. Then you are always doing some damage, but the better player will land better/more hits and win. Which is a lot more how MNO1 played. Because ping and parrying was jank so a lot of players just ran around and tried to out trade. The second I would fight a player who was good at parrying and had good ping it stopped being fun. Sadly in MO2 this is everyone because parrying is much easier.
To actually contribute to the topic. I think a possible solution is make parry damage higher. If you sit there getting hits for 5's over and over its going to add up. And then make big boy weapons that are slow and garbage do extra parry damage.
Parry hits could also lower the person parryings stam so that they cant just be full stam while they sit back and do nothing while the person actually trying to win blows stam.
Also you should be able to stam up while swinging and not sprinting. That way if they stand there parrying you can stand there swinging and eventually will get a hit in / they die to parry damage if they never fight back.
@Teknique I love how you can hit him before he does an animation and he can still get a parry lmao. Fighting as nubs in this game is fun but the second players know what they are doing and arent using a nerf sword that swings at the speed of light, the melee combat 1v1 is just so lame.
At the end of the day theres not a ton SV can do while wanting the melee combat to be parry based. Because this is always what happens, its the same reason I hate Mordhau. Its just a parrying contest, which if one player is good a worsep layer will never land a hit. and 2 good players its just an aids fest of doing jank stuff to try and get a hit in. I greatly prefer hit trade based combat. Then you are always doing some damage, but the better player will land better/more hits and win. Which is a lot more how MNO1 played. Because ping and parrying was jank so a lot of players just ran around and tried to out trade. The second I would fight a player who was good at parrying and had good ping it stopped being fun. Sadly in MO2 this is everyone because parrying is much easier.
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Interesting, I always felt that when your opponent misses it helps to defeat them and I enjoy that. But if that change made is the reason we can't break parry whore defense and have to rely on cheese animations to land a hit I'd much prefer flurry to come back to game. As waiting for opponent to miss is less reliable then going full flurry mode on them.