Why does SV hate PvPers?

[Emdash]

pvp is something different then stupidly ganking and griefing. When guilds are set/alliances are made, things get interesting for me and the group i am in, we are not interessted in stupid griefing of random lonely people or camping lawless towns because we can. PVP is so much more then the people bitching in this forum about. For the most of you pvp = being able to grief all over the server. I call that just being a lame person, nothing to do with real PvP

Griefing is killing pets in town; it's 0 gain killing to impose loss on another. The mobs in this game are boring, static resources, the challenge comes from other players wanting the same resources. There are many ways to avoid getting killed, being aware, learning to fight, having name recognition. Those are sandbox decisions. Pvp is what drives the world.

Like I said, I didn't come into this game to join a guild w/ a bunch of tryhards (Sorry buds!) screaming on discord and pvp over 'controlling my territory.' I am just a dude who wants to be able to handle my own shit. There are others like me, trust. You should always learn to handle your own shit because every system they implement can and will be 'gamed' by people after awhile and it will be used against you, then you will have to fight the person AND the system.

That's why I was for a local grey flag for open pvp where you could kill and be killed with no consequences, cuz some people are really playing the game. I think if you made people choose whether they could NEVER pvp and be permablue or be grey and always have to deal with pvp, most would choose the grey. And then you have to ask yourself, if you wanna pvp sometimes, why not all the time? Is it because sometimes you are ready? Always be ready. Sometimes you have an advantage? You won't always have an advantage, regardless. Because it's an inconvenience? Well, it's supposed to be, and that's why the economy continues to churn even when dudes had stuff like 2 week head starts.

Edit: just because something causes you grief doesn't make it griefing. I said before, think about other games... you go thru something, put in an hour or so of 'work' (about what you should be losing if you get PK'd), and you make one wrong move and die and have to start over. That's griefy! But you played the game, made a mistake and lost, or you just got really unlucky. All those things happen in MO, too.

 

[Nefnate]

I don't feel like confronting this entire post or the others like it, but I would like to provide some altered perspective.

With /duel added, there was a fight club of PvP for several hours outside of Fabernum.

I think "PvPer" is being misused. I think lots of PvP can happen without any form of MC risk. What you are all doing (empire building, politics, group battles) is definitely a form of PvP, but, not the only one. There are options to play and literally PvP all day without ever becoming a murderer.

They need better war / group fighting mechanics around for sure, but... yeah.

PvP is not just killing things all day in the wilds, or epic group fights with high stakes, it can also be tournaments, fight clubs, duels, and be otherwise structured.

So SV doesn't hate PvPers, they are coming down hard on people who harm new players and who KOS openly without thought, and the unfortunate byproduct is that Empire and Warring guilds are affected too. There is 100% overlap... but, yes, the change reaches too far.

 

[Tashka]

For the most of you pvp = being able to grief all over the server.

I'm not even sure what do you mean by "griefing". Killing a lone miner with a horse full of resources isn't griefing. Killing a traveller on his way to JC to buy some books with 50 gold on him isn't griefing. Killing newbies in GY for their zombie heads isn't griefing. It's all part of a sandbox experience.

Now pushing people with your shield while they're dueling in town because you know they can't do shit about it since there are guards everywhere is probably passes for griefing.

Oh and by the way you seem to be under the impression that REEEAL PVP goes by different rules in this game. Nope lol. You won't even notice how you'll get over 10 murdercounts without "griefing" a single newbie.

 

[Shamziebam]

I don't feel like confronting this entire post or the others like it, but I would like to provide some altered perspective.

With /duel added, there was a fight club of PvP for several hours outside of Fabernum.

I think "PvPer" is being misused. I think lots of PvP can happen without any form of MC risk. What you are all doing (empire building, politics, group battles) is definitely a form of PvP, but, not the only one. There are options to play and literally PvP all day without ever becoming a murderer.

They need better war / group fighting mechanics around for sure, but... yeah.

PvP is not just killing things all day in the wilds, or epic group fights with high stakes, it can also be tournaments, fight clubs, duels, and be otherwise structured.

So SV doesn't hate PvPers, they are coming down hard on people who harm new players and who KOS openly without thought, and the unfortunate byproduct is that Empire and Warring guilds are affected too. There is 100% overlap... but, yes, the change reaches too far.

Yes i completely agree with this, but as far i am reading from the "PvP'ers" i am reading in this forum only know the 1 kind of pvp as in ganking whoever you want whenever they want with absolutely 0 consequences. Loot Bank and when they get killed wait regear from the suplies of their alts and just continue ganking those unsuspecting care-bear noobs.

 

[Emdash]

Yes i completely agree with this, but as far i am reading from the "PvP'ers" i am reading in this forum only know the 1 kind of pvp as in ganking whoever you want whenever they want with absolutely 0 consequences. Loot Bank and when they get killed wait regear from the suplies of their alts and just continue ganking those unsuspecting care-bear noobs.

very uh... hyperbolic

 

[zers]

"I think "PvPer" is being misused". HAHHAHAHA
"my pve rp guild has been hosting a fight club using the /duel command" like u guys are now certified pvpers with ur 0 MC. Like u know how fcking ret*rded this system is

 

[ArcaneConsular]

Should've just opened a PvE server and a PvP server so we don't have to bicker and argue about balancing the two. PvE players get their world and PvP players get theirs. Never going to happen though

 

[666]

Should've just opened a PvE server and a PvP server so we don't have to bicker and argue about balancing the two. PvE players get their world and PvP players get theirs. Never going to happen though

0 chance that there will b pve server.

enrique advertise his game as harsh world, with risk on every step
but step by step we moving to safezone

that's why people complaining and not because people want to kill same naked 10 times in a row

btw many of you, people who are happy with those changes just have not enough experience to understand that anyone time to time could be red

as a example, if some people will come to siege your shit, you think they all will b red and criminal or wardec?
no, they want

you will attack only reds while siege?
no, you want
you will try to protect your sweethome with your flowers and all stuff

you will b red pretty soon
and after that you will come here and ask to make siege way more complicated and boring


Bump this thread when new wave players will start crying about sieging

p.s. telling that killing miners, traders and other people is griefing is completely hilarious new thing
even in mo1 you had no separated skills and people cryed way less, mayb rhobri friends only..

 

[Davros]

Foolish to say that SV hates PvPers. It's a PvP full loot game. It doesn't pass the common sense test in anyway to claim such.

 

[Cyrotek]

I'm not even sure what do you mean by "griefing". Killing a lone miner with a horse full of resources isn't griefing. Killing a traveller on his way to JC to buy some books with 50 gold on him isn't griefing. Killing newbies in GY for their zombie heads isn't griefing. It's all part of a sandbox experience.

Killing someones horse for no relevant gain and then running away to evade any actual PvP and/or consequences is pretty much the definition of griefing. This is what I saw today multiple times and I hope not that this is what "hardcore" PvPers are like. But I get the feeling that people screaming the most about crimes being punished harder are exactly these type of "PvP"ers.

Of course your examples are part of the desired experience and arguably not griefing (albeit killing newbies for zombie heads that are barely worth anything is debateable), but there are certainly a lot of possible ways to grief in this game that are used a LOT.

You can of course run around and say that it is all part of the game which - currently - might be true. But there is more to it than that: The health of the game. Actively driving players away is certainly not a good way to keep the game alive. This killed multiple games in the past.

The game needs to promote actual meaningful PvP experiences by creating hotspots where people commonly fight over ressources, not whatever this griefing bullshit is.

 

[Tzone]

Foolish to say that SV hates PvPers. It's a PvP full loot game. It doesn't pass the common sense test in anyway to claim such.

Sure seems that they hate PvPers. Henrik keeps telling people its not a PvP game even though thats the main content and only worth while content in the game. What has SV done for PvPer?

 

[Cyrotek]

Sure seems that they hate PvPers. Henrik keeps telling people its not a PvP game even though thats the main content and only worth while content in the game. What has SV done for PvPer?

It is possibly meant to be a "virtual world" kind of game, not a giant deathmatch.

 

[Emdash]

It is possibly meant to be a "virtual world" kind of game, not a giant deathmatch.

It's complicated.

Edit: you def should be able to loot people's horses tho, at least drag them back and sell them on broker.

Edit2: in keeping with your virtual world, some people wanna be virtual badasses. Nothing really wrong w/ that, it creates interesting dynamics. Some people wanna be virtual dick heads. I personally believe that the virtual dick head behavior, once it goes past a certain point, should be handled by GM MODERATION and not systems because any system you implement to stop that will affect non dickhead pvp. It's impossible to separate them. There are times when killing someone's horse, while griefy, is warranted. lol. It's a battle of attrition. Horses also body block the shit out of you if they are running around behind someone.

 

[Tashka]

Killing someones horse for no relevant gain and then running away to evade any actual PvP and/or consequences is pretty much the definition of griefing. This is what I saw today multiple times and I hope not that this is what "hardcore" PvPers are like. But I get the feeling that people screaming the most about crimes being punished harder are exactly these type of "PvP"ers.

Of course your examples are part of the desired experience and arguably not griefing (albeit killing newbies for zombie heads that are barely worth anything is debateable), but there are certainly a lot of possible ways to grief in this game that are used a LOT.

You can of course run around and say that it is all part of the game which - currently - might be true. But there is more to it than that: The health of the game. Actively driving players away is certainly not a good way to keep the game alive. This killed multiple games in the past.

The game needs to promote actual meaningful PvP experiences by creating hotspots where people commonly fight over ressources, not whatever this griefing bullshit is.

There will always be ways to grief people in a free sandbox environment. You want to get rid of griefing, you want a sterile environment kinda World of Warcraft. There's some of that too though.

Oh and the last update doesnt affect horse griefing. It actually makes less sense to kill the rider now and not just the horse.

 

[Cyrotek]

You can't get rid of griefing entirely but at least it should be punished harshly or at least not be that easy to do (without consequences).

 

[Sgr]

No doubt even if title of the game would be deatmatch online

there will be whiteknights asking for more consequences for killing people

 

[Emdash]

You can't get rid of griefing entirely but at least it should be punished harshly or at least not be that easy to do (without consequences).

You do understand there is no way, barring human 'judgment' to discern between unwarranted griefing and legit game play? That's why there are juries and such in life. It's advanced. You have no idea how advanced a system would have to be to even come CLOSE to stopping griefing and not affecting other play styles very much, and it is my firm belief that the more advanced a system is, the more it can be gamed. You can't put a numerical, binary value on grief. You just can't. Once you understand that, you almost want FEWER rules because you realize nobody likes griefers and they will get handled and won't be able to hide behind a flag or system - shrug -

 

[Tzone]

You can't get rid of griefing entirely but at least it should be punished harshly or at least not be that easy to do (without consequences).

PvP isnt griefing. I would say dying over and over to a person is actually griefing instead.

 

[Cyrotek]

PvP isnt griefing. I would say dying over and over to a person is actually griefing instead.

Killing player pets isn't technically even PvP if you don't engage that player afterwards. What else is it if not griefing, especially if you don't even gain anything from killing pets except maybe some sociopathic kind of satisfaction?

You do understand there is no way, barring human 'judgment' to discern between unwarranted griefing and legit game play? That's why there are juries and such in life. It's advanced. You have no idea how advanced a system would have to be to even come CLOSE to stopping griefing and not affecting other play styles very much, and it is my firm belief that the more advanced a system is, the more it can be gamed. You can't put a numerical, binary value on grief. You just can't. Once you understand that, you almost want FEWER rules because you realize nobody likes griefers and they will get handled and won't be able to hide behind a flag or system - shrug -

I am not asking for a system that "judges" players. I am asking to make griefing more difficult. If you think about where griefing mostly occurs - nearby cities - one example would be to actually have some guard patrol the area so griefers need to be much more careful. Another possibility would be to give players a temporary stamina regen debuf as soon as they become grey so they can't just run away if things go south.

No doubt even if title of the game would be deatmatch online

there will be whiteknights asking for more consequences for killing people

Why aren't you playing something like Mordhau if all you wanna do is killing people? Ah, let me guess, because there you can't just go for free kills all day.

 

[Emdash]

I am not asking for a system that "judges" players. I am asking to make griefing more difficult. If you think about where griefing mostly occurs - nearby cities - one example would be to actually have some guard patrol the area so griefers need to be much more careful. Another possibility would be to give players a temporary stamina regen debuf as soon as they become grey so they can't just run away if things go south.

The only grief 'fix' I'd support is making pets immune to dmg in towns. Everything else, like I said, is fair play... including @ the appliances imo.