What's the point of the criminal system when it doesn't work?

[Backyard Employee]

to answer your post, it does work, just not perfectly by any means. Every murder count you give them lowers their reputation with that particular faction. When their rep gets low enough they technically become unwanted in that town, and besically red for that faction. Its just that their flag doesnt show it. But they still cant enter town.
at that point you can kill them and they cant give you murder counts. So besically their flag will still be blue, but they are “red” and you can kill them without consequences. Its like hidden red flag.

its a bit of a convoluted system but still waaaay more forgiving than the old system where after 5 murders you were red to every single town. And each murder tok 8 hours of ingame time to wear off. And there was nothing you could do but wait it out.

kids these days have no idea how easy they have it. And still, here they are, complaining.

Hate to say it, but with the current system you can't go back into towns (currently) ever again if you drop below a certain reputation. That isn't easier, that is harder.

I don't know why in a lot of posts you try to come off as someone who is experienced or knowledgeable about these things but you don't really convey that in your posts.

What's easier?

1.) Playing the game and naturally over time gaining the ability to go back into town.

OR

2.) Having to run packages across the map everytime you want to PvP, and if you don't you're perma-kicked from a town.

I thought this was pretty obvious to most people, but the current reputation system is much harsher and convoluted then the murder-count burn.

They're both shit systems, but at least one eventually let me come back to a town if I wanted to.

The system would be better if the NPC's were just outside of the towns as well, and more opportunities to raise rep besides package deliveries were added.

 

[Darthus]

Sorry, don't understand your response to my post , but "If the people getting killed [in the graveyard with guards around them, repeatedly so they can't play with no obvious consequence to the killer] quit, then the game wasn't going to be for them anyway." ([] added for clarity), is just patently false. People aren't complaining about dying, they're complaining about being killed as a new player in areas where they expect some degree of security.

It's a sandbox game. That is his choice, along with those who participate. @Tzone puts it more eloquently that since he is perma-locked from towns anyway, there is no benefit in sparing people who he comes across because the reputation system currently doesn't allow him to have a choice if he wishes to PvP (Killing new players or not.)

It's his choice to be perma-banned from towns, and thus he is choosing to roleplay a mass murderer. If you kill so heavily in every region as to have negative rep everywhere, then yes, you are playing a Unabomber style hermit who lives only in lawless towns who is KOS to all guards and likely to many players. That person may kill noobs if they see them out in the wild, I wouldn't expect any less.

But there are likely plenty of people who will kill sometimes, when it's worth it, try to keep a balance of rep in certain regions so they can shop in some towns, where it's a cost benefit analysis of "is it worth the rep hit to attack this person?" If they have a bunch of loot or you hate them, probably. If they're a noob with nothing? Probably not. That's what the system is designed to do. The structure supports that, if there are issues, it's in people getting around rep hits or the numbers needing tweaking.

EDIT: You posted when I posted, but if your main complaint is you should be able to "play the game" and not have to run packages to get back rep, then you should be lobbying for more variety in tasks, not trying to scrap the whole system. Someone should NOT be able to just sit there and afk to make up for killing a bunch of people, they should have to take an active action that makes it somewhat of a sacrifice to lose rep.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Darthus we talked about this remember….above?….the crazy prople.

Backyard is PoisonArrows forum cousin, Tzone is their cheer leader. There is no point arguing with them. They have no intention of making any sense. Just walk away man.

 

[Tzone]

Darthus we talked about this remember….above?….the crazy prople.

Backyard is PoisonArrows forum cousin, Tzone is their cheer leader. There is no point arguing with them. They have no intention of making any sense. Just walk away man.

I think this applies to you. People for this system dont make any sense because no one likes it. Maybe if you had real points and decent arguments people could see you side.


Can people honestly say this is a good system? No one seems to like it. The PvPers hate it, the guardzone huggers hate it too. The noobs arent being protected by it either. This system isnt good for the people who want protection for PvP and its not good for the casual PvPers. Very bad for the ARPK guilds.

Im fine with the system, it hurts people in the GZ harder then it hurts me. They cant go grey with out having lots of risk attached. I have no risk because rep is meaningless now.

Even koto doesnt like it. For different reasons besides what the PvPers like.

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[Jackdstripper]

I disaagree Tzone. I think people were ok with it before when they could kill risars for rep. Get rep and good money, and maybe even some spontaneous pvp skirmish. pvper were not complaining.

as soon as they removed the risars farming, everyone started bitching.all of a sudden you can no longer farm mats, make money AND get rep. Now you have to spend time soley to gain rep, which takes time away from farming AND pvp.


I think the new rep system is far better than the old MO1 system, but it does need to be adjusted . Risars farming was a good way to gain rep back, just maybe needed to be toned down a bit. After all, gaining rep shouldnt be a too easy (or profitable) otherwise where is the punishment? It should be a bit of a chore. Now its simply too much of a chore. Also there should be multiple ways to gain rep. Not just one way that forces you to go into towns.

 

[Tzone]

I disaagree Tzone. I think people were ok with it before when they could kill risars for rep. Get rep and good money, and maybe even some spontaneous pvp skirmish. pvper were not complaining.

as soon as they removed the risars farming, everyone started bitching.all of a sudden you can no longer farm mats, make money AND get rep. Now you have to spend time soley to gain rep, which takes time away from farming AND pvp.


I think the new rep system is far better than the old MO1 system, but it does need to be adjusted . Risars farming was a good way to gain rep back, just maybe needed to be toned down a bit. After all, gaining rep shouldnt be a too easy (or profitable) otherwise where is the punishment? It should be a bit of a chore. Now its simply too much of a chore. Also there should be multiple ways to gain rep. Not just one way that forces you to go into towns.

Risar rep grind while gave you stuff forces the people away from towns and gave breather. Also the allure of being able to get your rep back ment that you could spend that rep how you wanted in order to PvP. In the past you could chose between killing noobs or killing people actually worth PvPing. Both cost the same amount of rep. You might kill a couple of noobs to get people out to PvP you but you tended to not want to spend you rep on people who didnt provide content.

Now since people who want to PvP are perma neg rep pretty much there is no moderation in who we kill. We wont go into town on these alts so doesnt matter if we kill a hundred noobs, we can still PvP who ever we want to our hearts content now. Its quite liberating.

If you want people to kill less noobs you need a carrot and stick approach not just a stick. Need to be able to take something away from them if they kill too much. The old system had that, it was able to make you leave town to go away inorder to farm a resource that would then want to spend in a way that gave you the most content for you buck.

Punishing people is either going to make things worse. Everytime Henrik made a criminal systems or guard change the situation got worse. Or if you punish to hard people who are punished will just quit.

 

[Backyard Employee]

Risar rep grind while gave you stuff forces the people away from towns and gave breather. Also the allure of being able to get your rep back ment that you could spend that rep how you wanted in order to PvP. In the past you could chose between killing noobs or killing people actually worth PvPing. Both cost the same amount of rep. You might kill a couple of noobs to get people out to PvP you but you tended to not want to spend you rep on people who didnt provide content.

Now since people who want to PvP are perma neg rep pretty much there is no moderation in who we kill. We wont go into town on these alts so doesnt matter if we kill a hundred noobs, we can still PvP who ever we want to our hearts content now. Its quite liberating.

If you want people to kill less noobs you need a carrot and stick approach not just a stick. Need to be able to take something away from them if they kill too much. The old system had that, it was able to make you leave town to go away inorder to farm a resource that would then want to spend in a way that gave you the most content for you buck.

Punishing people is either going to make things worse. Everytime Henrik made a criminal systems or guard change the situation got worse. Or if you punish to hard people who are punished will just quit.

A lot of people don't realize that farming risars, for example, gave PvP players a gameplay loop that wasn't just PvP. It made them do PvE to support their PvP.

But yeah, fuck PvP and help noobs not get griefed! It's totally not like they die everyday!

 

[Tzone]

A lot of people don't realize that farming risars, for example, gave PvP players a gameplay loop that wasn't just PvP. It made them do PvE to support their PvP.

But yeah, fuck PvP and help noobs not get griefed! It's totally not like they die everyday!

The title of this threat is talking about how the system doesnt work from the view point of some one being killed by PvPers.
Multiple other post from several different perspectives.

The old system was better in all aspect for everyone. Except for me who is perma neg and can use the fear of going neg on other people.



The main issue here is really not even the system but how they update the game by removing the old system before they even are ready to put in the new system. Normally you would think to hey lets keep this working system untill we have the new one ready.

 

[Darthus]

Can people honestly say this is a good system? No one seems to like it.

I like it, despite it not being perfect, as it's better than the mostly "no system" that existed before. It's obvious hyperbole to say nobody likes it.

There is meaningful difference between "the system doesn't work in all cases and needs improvement as new players are still getting ganked in safe areas" and "remove the system and return how it was before where noobs could be killed with very little consequence, 1 month before launch, right before a huge influx of new people"

I was there live when that person said the clip you posted. The issue there is that there was an organized PvP event being created by the devs completely impromptu and the system is not at all set up for that (Henrik asking people to not report murders is unrealistic), but I don't think scrapping the entire system because of a goofy impromptu beta event for the CEO's stream makes sense. The goal is to make a system to approximates logic and reality, which is that people who behave badly have consequences imposed by organized society (the NPC cities in the game).

I think more people would take you all seriously if instead of saying, "System sucks, go back to how it was before", you tried hard to think alongside the devs and try to actually help solve the problem that's trying to be solved (providing somewhat reliable sense of security in defined areas in an immersive non safe-zone way) rather than just suggesting an alternative (no/reduced security) that is not at all viable for the goal the devs are trying to accomplish.

It's a practical suggestion, as until you do, your feedback probably won't be taken seriously.

@Jackdstripper, I appreciate that we likely agree and I'm sure you're exhausted with discussing this with people who seem like they won't listen, but it's not in my nature to simply label people as crazy who I don't agree with. I do believe we might come to a point where it's just like, "Hey, you have different priorities than the devs and your recommendations are thus not viable" but I want to at least exhaust the possibility that there might be common ground somewhere in here.

 

[Darthus]

A lot of people don't realize that farming risars, for example, gave PvP players a gameplay loop that wasn't just PvP. It made them do PvE to support their PvP.

This again is just a request for tasks that relate to killing mobs (As well as gathering/crafting etc). By all accounts you'll have them, so wouldn't it make sense to advocate for that rather than trashing the whole thing?

 

[Gulith]

you only get rep down if you get caught by guards ... if 90% of your time is rep farming, then it is your own fault!
fight those you can fight back instead : for they do not live near guards.

 

[Gulith]

all this might change when we will be able to side with npc factions (trindremic / khurite), and killing your own faction in town will make you lose rep too, so no more infinite blue farming in graveyards.

 

[SilentPony]

you only get rep down if you get caught by guards ... if 90% of your time is rep farming, then it is your own fault!
fight those you can fight back instead : for they do not live near guards.

That is not true, you get rep down if you kill someone far away from town. Then they resurrect at their priest and report you. Graveyards have nothing to do with it.

 

[Lord Hair Remover]

Please keep griefing noobs and new players. They deserve it.

 

[Tzone]

This again is just a request for tasks that relate to killing mobs (As well as gathering/crafting etc). By all accounts you'll have them, so wouldn't it make sense to advocate for that rather than trashing the whole thing?

But the big issue here is that we have a horrible non working system that was half implemented. Already had rep gain on mob killing but they removed it before a replacement was ready. Would be a different story if the replacement was only a patch away.

People who dont interact with the system might think its good but people who are APRKing, GuardZone PvPing, GY PvPing, and are in the world defending them selves are having issues.

 

[Jatix]

I have recently joined a guild and had a few fights, and participated in quite a few kills; I have only lost 1 rep! It appears to me that between combatants of equal standing (guilded, organised, in groups) there is very little murder reporting going on.

Organized pvp is nothing compared to authentic fights. Which is the ones MO2 is trying to prevent, and the ones MO2 really needs to keep players excited and interested.

There needs to be unlawful areas in the world, that you can kill people with no punishment. Think hotspots, like dungeons, that people should be fighting over. Then they can make the punishment as hard as they feel necessary for places like the GY. Would be best of both worlds. Only way to keep the pvp players and the nubs. Nubs who dont want to die can stay in the more protected areas.

But the current system we have is literal trash. Trying to fight over a resource far from town still gives standing loss. And if you are getting standing loss, you might aswell go all the way and be red, because its not worth farming back up ever. And once you go all the way theres no punishment anymore. You can KOS ever random nub and nothing will be different. And if nothing will be different theres no reason not to besides if you would feel bad about it. In a pvp game. Which most people wont feel bad, so nubs get slaughtered.

I'm not going to protest by killing nubs, I'm just not playing and dont plan to play the current thing that calls itself mortal online 2. I'm just hoping they can turn it into a real open pvp game that is worth playing. And that needs a much more functional standing system.

 

[Komodor]

It's important for SV to not commit the same mistakes as during MO1 Steam launch; when suggested starting zone was MK just next to RPK. All players were just priest camped and steam release ended as total disaster. Not only some improvements need to be done but SV also needs to actually understand the situation and how abusive certain mechanics are. In both ways.
First build solid foundation and core unbreakable mechanics, then add things on top of it.

 

[ElPerro]

But there are likely plenty of people who will kill sometimes, when it's worth it, try to keep a balance of rep in certain regions so they can shop in some towns, where it's a cost benefit analysis of "is it worth the rep hit to attack this person?" If they have a bunch of loot or you hate them, probably. If they're a noob with nothing? Probably not. That's what the system is designed to do. The structure supports that, if there are issues, it's in people getting around rep hits or the numbers needing tweaking.

This was how it worked before they nerfed rep gains, you would save up rep for people you really wanted to kill or just in case for pvp since there are always enemy blues in the mix. Farming rep every once in a while was easier than farming gold for a house and having to build it nearby, transfer gear, etc. But since now unless you pve all day you WILL become a perma criminal eventually, there is no point in choosing targets or saving rep, just kill everyone because you never know which noob is transporting 1000g or a keep deed.

 

[Wollkneul]

If characters can continuously kill newbies as a form of protest of their players against the developers, the system obviously is not tough enough.

 

[Tzone]

If characters can continuously kill newbies as a form of protest of their players against the developers, the system obviously is not tough enough.

Doubling down the past 10 times didnt help and actually drove more people to kill more. Go ahead double down, only two things will happen. Either it will fail again and drive more people to be perma neg and kill everyone and anyone. Or those players will quit because PvP is prohibited by the game.

PvP is the main reason people play the game.