What must be in game for Persistent?

[Kebek]

Absolutely correct, thanks for pointing that, I'll fix the original post in which I used release and persistent interchangeably. What we want here is, more technically is " by the moment subscriptions start to be charged", which happens on Early Stage.
I can also totally agree with the addition to the list. As beautiful as it is, the world right now is empty and it will be very demotivating to a new audience that is expecting to see a full game.

So what changes when "release" is here?

 

[Kaemik]

I totally agree with the additions to the mounts. Some sort of protection to the mounts and the possibility to carry more weight (with saddlebags or any other sort of mechanism) seems essential enough to allow exploration, commerce, and a more decent range of mounted PvP. I think it is safe to add them to the list.
My point of three dungeons is thinking on the more PvE-inclined audience (in which I include myself). For them, I believe there are two essential components: The "quests" and the "end game". The broker houses are a brilliant idea that can almost single-handly deal with the concept of the quests. By fulfilling orders from other players, the PVE audience will have enough content and fun while leveling skills and acquiring better gear. But on the same note, something they can aspire to do after they have progressed is also essential. Without an end-game objective, which most easily comes in the form of a challenging dungeon, this audience will probably lose the sense of purpose midway into the effort. To complete the point, I think a single dungeon may not be enough to achieve this objective (and may generate operational issues, such as overcrowding), and naturally, I'm also leveraging the idea that there are already three dungeons in the game: Minotaur, Risar and Sator (not even counting the Toxai dungeon).
What do you think, any thoughts?

I don't really think PVErs that would be engaged by a dungeon are the core audience of the game TBH. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see this game have great PVE. But great PVE is a huge resource investment for any development team, not something I think they should aim for day one of persistent in a game where PvP is the primary focus.

I think getting all the primary combat roles out, working somewhat decently, and then adding territorial control is going to be what appeals to their core audience most. A lot more people will be engaged by the rush to build the first keeps than the rush to clear the first boss. Also given dungeons are non-instanced we're totally going to just zerg them down.

 

[Rankor]

I don't really think PVErs that would be engaged by a dungeon are the core audience of the game TBH. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see this game have great PVE. But great PVE is a huge resource investment for any development team, not something I think they should aim for day one of persistent in a game where PvP is the primary focus.

I think getting all the primary combat roles out, working somewhat decently, and then adding territorial control is going to be what appeals to their core audience most. A lot more people will be engaged by the rush to build the first keeps than the rush to clear the first boss. Also given dungeons are non-instanced we're totally going to just zerg them down.

Henrik's already stated that PVE is a big focus and thinks its key to keeping new players engaged. PvP, me thinks, will always be a primary focus and core system that will continue to be tweaked throghout the life of the game. But without proper PvE from the outset, sub retention (the key to finical success) might not see the numbers needed.

 

[Kaemik]

Henrik's already stated that PVE is a big focus and thinks its key to keeping new players engaged. PvP, me thinks, will always be a primary focus and core system that will continue to be tweaked throghout the life of the game. But without proper PvE from the outset, sub retention (the key to finical success) might not see the numbers needed.

I don't disagree it's important to have. It just seems like "persistent" is going to be incredibly bare bones. If they want to have great PvE day one. Day one needs to be sometime in 2022.

 

[BleckCat]

Good PvE and a working fair crime system is most important. There will always be PvP, but SV need to capture and keep more people.

 

[belad]

mobs with collision is a must have so people don't aggro 50 into one spot and stand on something higher and farm them all. 50 zombies shouldn't be able to go inside each others bodies like that. better guard system aswell would help new players. instead of the tavern safe zones, have guards with different ai inside certain banks and taverns that kill on sight for violence, but stays realistic so bar fights can still happen. guard ai like this can be changed for all guards once territory control is in

 

[Crom]

So what changes when "release" is here?

That is actually a great question. In my perspective, "release" is a much more polished version of "persistent". I think the early access will already have all, or at least the vast majority of the systems we will see on release, and then they will use this final round of feedback before going into full release (where most probably the paid ads and overall marketing initiatives will come in).

 

[belad]

im telling you, Mob collision, criminal system fixed, and improved guards, would make this games core feel like a much more real, like a proper ecosystem and kinder to new players. thus should be a core focus before everything else when thinking about ea. if it doesn't have this base there will be issues in player retention. asides from that what said before should be an absolute minimum for ea.

my opinion on core essential for ea
-mob collision
-improved guards
-fixed criminal system

 

[Crom]

im telling you, Mob collision, criminal system fixed, and improved guards, would make this games core feel like a much more real, like a proper ecosystem and kinder to new players. thus should be a core focus before everything else when thinking about ea. if it doesn't have this base there will be issues in player retention. asides from that what said before should be an absolute minimum for ea.

my opinion on core essential for ea
-mob collision
-improved guards
-fixed criminal system

I think you right on, all three are essential for persistent. The fixed criminal system is already on the list (since there are entire pieces missing), the improvements in overall AI is a major focus on the beta, and mob collision issue I think it is better classified as a bug, right? (give that you are totally right that the current behavior is unacceptable)

 

[Crom]

Good PvE and a working fair crime system is most important. There will always be PvP, but SV need to capture and keep more people.

Totally agree, without either of these pieces, the chances of a successful Day 1 seem slim, at best.

 

[belad]

I think you right on, all three are essential for persistent. The fixed criminal system is already on the list (since there are entire pieces missing), the improvements in overall AI is a major focus on the beta, and mob collision issue I think it is better classified as a bug, right? (give that you are totally right that the current behavior is unacceptable)

yeah like the mobs should definitely not be able to ghost through each other, thats what I meant by collision. leads to farming exploits etc and looks ridicules if 20 zombies are stacked up in each other.

 

[Crom]

Henrik's already stated that PVE is a big focus and thinks its key to keeping new players engaged. PvP, me thinks, will always be a primary focus and core system that will continue to be tweaked throghout the life of the game. But without proper PvE from the outset, sub retention (the key to finical success) might not see the numbers needed.

I think this is a great discussion and one we bound to be involved on for some months (if not years). As I mentioned before, I was there for the original game beta, and one think that I remember is that the conversation back then, the promissed being made, expecting for the technology pieces, were not very different. This is to say that the MO was not originally envisioned a pure PvP game. It ended up being one because PVE content was not implemented and the PvP system as really good. Fast forward to MO2, we are again at the stage where the promisses of a comprehensive and brutal sandbox game are again on the table. If the vision is correctly executed, there will not a "primary" focus of the game, but rather a game that invites choice, imposes consequence, and has a lot to offer regardless of what path you chose to travel. Moreover, if the plan goes as intended, the paths intertwine, creating an even richer experience for everyone.
On a more pragmatic aproach, PvE content means more players and more ways to keep players engaged, which translates into more revenue. It, thus, makes a lot of sense that Henrik mentioned that this is a major focus for SV right now. As the stress test proved, the potential here is immense. On his last live, Henrik mentioned for the first time the possibility of having hundreds of thousands of players, and for that, PVE as content is absolutely essencial (just as PvP, Exploration and Crafting).

 

[Amelia]

I forgot to mention that I would like to see a much more live cities/villages, with NPC interactive citizens walk around , visitable houses, no closed doors, etc.

 

[belad]

I forgot to mention that I would like to see a much more live cities/villages, with NPC interactive citizens walk around , visitable houses, no closed doors, etc.

exactly atmosphere and ecosystem are essential. Guards moving in patrol groups etc would be cool too.

 

[BongRips]

That's a very interesting idea. What would you name your house?

Whore house. I strive to be like the original

 

[Crom]

Whore house. I strive to be like the original

ROLF! Invite me to the opening!

 

[Rankor]

I think this is a great discussion and one we bound to be involved on for some months (if not years). As I mentioned before, I was there for the original game beta, and one think that I remember is that the conversation back then, the promissed being made, expecting for the technology pieces, were not very different. This is to say that the MO was not originally envisioned a pure PvP game. It ended up being one because PVE content was not implemented and the PvP system as really good. Fast forward to MO2, we are again at the stage where the promisses of a comprehensive and brutal sandbox game are again on the table. If the vision is correctly executed, there will not a "primary" focus of the game, but rather a game that invites choice, imposes consequence, and has a lot to offer regardless of what path you chose to travel. Moreover, if the plan goes as intended, the paths intertwine, creating an even richer experience for everyone.
On a more pragmatic aproach, PvE content means more players and more ways to keep players engaged, which translates into more revenue. It, thus, makes a lot of sense that Henrik mentioned that this is a major focus for SV right now. As the stress test proved, the potential here is immense. On his last live, Henrik mentioned for the first time the possibility of having hundreds of thousands of players, and for that, PVE as content is absolutely essencial (just as PvP, Exploration and Crafting).

I was there as well and remember all those conversations.
The reality is that PvE never got close to what SV originally intended in MO1. Part of that, I think, was that the AI tech was too new. That, and the way they created "server nodes" using UE3 when it was not designed for made it not very feasible. Today, however, the tables have turned and I am really excited to see lots of PVE this time around....especially with the landmass being so large.

 

[Crom]

exactly atmosphere and ecosystem are essential. Guards moving in patrol groups etc would be cool too.

That's fair enough, I think you and @Amelia have a point: Atmosphere is essential. I'll add that to the list!

 

[Crom]

I was there as well and remember all those conversations.
The reality is that PvE never got close to what SV originally intended in MO1. Part of that, I think, was that the AI tech was too new. That, and the way they created "server nodes" using UE3 when it was not designed for made it not very feasible. Today, however, the tables have turned and I am really excited to see lots of PVE this time around....especially with the landmass being so large.

Totally agree! Can't wait for lots to do in such a massive world!

 

[ElPerro]

Also, persistence is NOT release; it is the entry into EARLY ACCESS, meaning big changes to systems and content could still take place if needed.

I'll go with your list plus one-

I. Broker Houses
II. Mounted Melee Combat
III. At least one more magic school
IV. At least 3 complete PvE dungeons.
V. The fully implemented Criminal system, reputation system and bounty system (which combined form the "Red & Blue system).
VI. All already listed by not yet implemented Action and Profession skills
VII. More pickables and mobs/mobs spawners throughout the entire landscape

The moment they start charging a $15 sub it will be viewed as a full release.