What does Hardcore mean?

[Fargus]

Just as the title suggests, I just wanted to kind of see what people wanted out of this game marketed as a Hardcore Full loot Pvp game and really what the idea of hardcore even means to those who play. I was reading a thread about new task and a suggestion was made about putting in secret npcs for extra spicy rewards and my immediate thought was that secret would last about 3 hours at max, when the greater nat was put in it felt like even though the world is so massive it was found before I was even done patching the update and from the moment it was found the info spread like wild fire and the secret location was very common knowledge.

In this day and age of the interent information is so readily and widely available secrets dont last long. And in this game especially a very large crutch is third party systems. When I saw that SV put in localization of guild chat in game, I didn't really see that affecting anything since everyone and their uses discord for guild communications. Extracting calculator, live updated map for spawns and resource nodes, bow crafting, npc locations, all of this information and much more is so readily available that it seems the game is solved.

A quick Google search puts the definition of Hardcore games as those that require players to invest a lot of time to learn and as a result, have the highest engagement among game genres. The problem is this game doesn't really take a whole lot of time to learn since all of the information is already out their, the last thing to "learn" are mechanical skills which are very important in this game but the idea of getting better at mechanics isn't something unique to "hardcore" games.

What makes a game hardcore? Difficulty? Time investment required? Perseverance? Risk? All of these id argue are different aspects but I wouldn't say are unique to the idea of "hardcore". What do you want out of a "hardcore" game and why do you think that MO2 fills that niche?

 

[Tzone]

The true meaning of hardcore is the most dedicated/committed.

Casuals players are the opposite of hardcore players as casual means occasional. Someone who is dedicated does not play occasionally.
Hardcore games require dedication. If you want to be good at a hardcore game then you need to dedicate time to practice to build skills. I personally think that hardcore means its hard, which means you need to play well and not just play more as in spend more time. Just spending time in something doesn't mean you put effort into something.

In this game the dedication is in non engaging time sinks mostly but after that it was a pretty OK melee combat system. Most of this game is effortless as tedium is the time sink and not practice. Which is holding it back.

Not really a hardcore game and most players dont think its a actual sandbox either.

 

[Piet]

It's def not easy to learn and most of the information is not out there. The best pvp strats take a long time to learn, the best crafting recipes are almost all hidden and kept secret. The only info out there is basics. But hardcore I think is a very in depth system that's hard to learn without time investment and critical thinking mixed with freedom to do as you please with very rough impact from death and such that may come from some of those decisions made with that freedom.

 

[Dracu]

I n my book, hardcore means no handholding or atleast as little handholding as required. So everything you do is up to how well you do it without the game doing to much assisting. This ofc doesnt need to apply to every mechanic for me to qualify it as hardcore. All the game has to do is Reward good play with little to no handholding while punishing bad play. Punishing is ofc flexible in terms of the punishment. As long as it is not neutral. For example dieing and loosing your items is a punishment thats not neutral while reviving with everything you had is.

Edit:
I would even consider bdo exp loss at late game pretty hardcore since you loose hours and hours of progression.

 

[Najwalaylah]

It's a buzzword.

Maybe this game should stop using that word 'as if it explained itself' and its developers should describe the specific things about the game that could be defined that way, instead of simply using 'hardcore' as shorthand.

Keywords used should probably be not just the 'most popular ones for your kind of game' that you can find.

 

[Tzone]

It's a buzzword.

Maybe this game should stop using that word 'as if it explained itself' and its developers should describe the specific things about the game that could be defined that way, instead of simply using 'hardcore' as shorthand.

Keywords used should probably be not just the 'most popular ones for your kind of game' that you can find.

Its a term with a definition that denotes particular qualities of a person, hobby, or activity.

I know people want to twist deffinitions to suite them but it doesnt change that its not a buzz word.

 

[Backyard Employee]

It's a buzzword.

Maybe this game should stop using that word 'as if it explained itself' and its developers should describe the specific things about the game that could be defined that way, instead of simply using 'hardcore' as shorthand.

Keywords used should probably be not just the 'most popular ones for your kind of game' that you can find.

I for once agree with what you say, as I find using the word hardcore still leaves 99.99% of players in the dark about what it means.

People say Dark Souls is hardcore, people say Rust is hardcore, people say Ultima Online is hardcore - even though they're all different genres, different playstyles, different games entirely.

Yes, Mortal Online is "hardcore" but only because it has things to it that get blanketed under this statement.

Here is what makes Mortal Online "hardcore".

1.) Unguided play experience (beyond the tutorial).
2.) Skill system rather then a level system.
3.) You can be attacked / killed anywhere, anytime.
4.) Your items can be taken anywhere, anytime. (Either through death -or- thievery, if they add it.)
5.) Players dictate the law of the land outside of towns.
6.) Sandbox elements such as free-placement housing.
7.) Acquiring things such as gold, resources, friends, 'power' has to be worked for - it isn't handed to you.
8.) The combat is (though in a very poor execution) "skill based" as you have to control when to strike, when to block, when to move, etc.

That's a few reasons why the game gets called "hardcore".

But if you ask ME. The game isn't hardcore. It's tedious, unfun grinding, and monotonous repetition of actions to achieve anything. That in my eyes doesn't make it hardcore or "deep", it makes the game a chore to play and the most ironic part is we have to pay to ""experience"" it.

 

[Tzone]

I for once agree with what you say, as I find using the word hardcore still leaves 99.99% of players in the dark about what it means.

People say Dark Souls is hardcore, people say Rust is hardcore, people say Ultima Online is hardcore - even though they're all different genres, different playstyles, different games entirely.

Yes, Mortal Online is "hardcore" but only because it has things to it that get blanketed under this statement.

Here is what makes Mortal Online "hardcore".

1.) Unguided play experience (beyond the tutorial).
2.) Skill system rather then a level system.
3.) You can be attacked / killed anywhere, anytime.
4.) Your items can be taken anywhere, anytime. (Either through death -or- thievery, if they add it.)
5.) Players dictate the law of the land outside of towns.
6.) Sandbox elements such as free-placement housing.
7.) Acquiring things such as gold, resources, friends, 'power' has to be worked for - it isn't handed to you.
8.) The combat is (though in a very poor execution) "skill based" as you have to control when to strike, when to block, when to move, etc.

That's a few reasons why the game gets called "hardcore".

But if you ask ME. The game isn't hardcore. It's tedious, unfun grinding, and monotonous repetition of actions to achieve anything. That in my eyes doesn't make it hardcore or "deep", it makes the game a chore to play and the most ironic part is we have to pay to ""experience"" it.

Mortal is not hardcore, it can be tho with some changes. Its more of a role playing game with ok combat and meh systems that have pseudo depth.
Full loot is a hardcore aspect but I dont think that can carry the rest of the game to have a hardcore title. The skill system is just read a book and AFK macro your skills. Not being hand holdy I would say is just the baseline.

 

[Backyard Employee]

Mortal is not hardcore, it can be tho with some changes. Its more of a role playing game with ok combat and meh systems that have pseudo depth.
Full loot is a hardcore aspect but I dont think that can carry the rest of the game to have a hardcore title. The skill system is just read a book and AFK macro your skills. Not being hand holdy I would say is just the baseline.

I actually said the game wasn't hardcore in my opinion, that it is by many others definition of the word when used to describe a game such as Mortal.

 

[Fargus]

I for once agree with what you say, as I find using the word hardcore still leaves 99.99% of players in the dark about what it means.

People say Dark Souls is hardcore, people say Rust is hardcore, people say Ultima Online is hardcore - even though they're all different genres, different playstyles, different games entirely.

Yes, Mortal Online is "hardcore" but only because it has things to it that get blanketed under this statement.

Here is what makes Mortal Online "hardcore".

1.) Unguided play experience (beyond the tutorial).
2.) Skill system rather then a level system.
3.) You can be attacked / killed anywhere, anytime.
4.) Your items can be taken anywhere, anytime. (Either through death -or- thievery, if they add it.)
5.) Players dictate the law of the land outside of towns.
6.) Sandbox elements such as free-placement housing.
7.) Acquiring things such as gold, resources, friends, 'power' has to be worked for - it isn't handed to you.
8.) The combat is (though in a very poor execution) "skill based" as you have to control when to strike, when to block, when to move, etc.

That's a few reasons why the game gets called "hardcore".

But if you ask ME. The game isn't hardcore. It's tedious, unfun grinding, and monotonous repetition of actions to achieve anything. That in my eyes doesn't make it hardcore or "deep", it makes the game a chore to play and the most ironic part is we have to pay to ""experience"" it.

Sadly the criteria makes it seems like you could be explaining a random minecraft server just as easily as this convoluted game that we all seem to enjoy spending our time money and sanity on.

 

[Nishkin]

I think the answer to your question is simple
Hard in it's core , hardcore for me Mortal Online is hard in it's core. I guess for different people this has different meaning but I will try to summarize how it looks for me.

It was hard for me to learn how to fight with Bows and Weapons, a lot of hit and miss.
It was very hard for me to orientate and travel at the beginning, even now after 200+ hours spent in Nave I got lost in parts of the Jungle or even get killed by Sators.
Full loot, lost my inventory and beloved horse so many times that I stopped naming the horses I have, I feel very bad when they are named and they die
It's not easy to progress find materials especially if you are not in a guild, but even if you are in a guild it's hard to roam alone the land.
My first dungeon visit and boss fight I saw how 20 people perish in the Spider cave, Spider Queen really destroyed us without a single doubt.
Crafting and Alchemy are also Hard for me at least, lot's of unknows, now there is a calculator for crafting, but take Alchemy you really need to put some effort to find viable information and start with it.

The community is also very hard core, there are people with so much knowledge and vision coming from 1st game that it is very impressive for me, really loving the hard core community.
Even the devs with the releases twice per a month and Henrik streaming no matter what, yesterday he was having very bad cold ongoing and still made a stream and answered prob. 5-6 of my questions.

I can go on, but I don't think it' s needed, maybe I'm not the biggest or greatest gamer but for me the game is really how they define it Hardcore in many ways.

 

[Raknor]

The true meaning of hardcore is the most dedicated/committed.

Agree with this part, it means it is a game that requires commitment and that the systems are not designed towards "casual players".

Casuals players are the opposite of hardcore players as casual means occasional. Someone who is dedicated does not play occasionally.
Hardcore games require dedication. If you want to be good at a hardcore game then you need to dedicate time to practice to build skills. I personally think that hardcore means its hard, which means you need to play well and not just play more as in spend more time. Just spending time in something doesn't mean you put effort into something.

In this game the dedication is in non engaging time sinks mostly but after that it was a pretty OK melee combat system. Most of this game is effortless as tedium is the time sink and not practice. Which is holding it back.

Not really a hardcore game and most players dont think its a actual sandbox either.

I don't agree with this part - that the system is hardcore needs to reflect player skill (and not character skill for example) is not part of the definition for me. It can be either or both.

 

[MazinkaiserDX]

First, something I mentioned in a post I made asking about this game, it's really not marketed as "hardore full loot pvp", it's marketed as a sandbox MMORPG which includes full loot pvp. It's not the same. But yeah, that does imply "hardcore mechanics".

Now, if I had to summarize as much as I can what hardcore means, I'd say... "your actions have consequences that matter", for better or worse.

 

[Eldrath]

In this context I would define "hardcore" as "your actions/decision have consequenses that can be irreversible". Similar to true rogue likes.

 

[Jackdstripper]

In Mortal, game beats you….to a bloody, crazy, incoherent, raging pulp it does…

thats hard core

 

[ArcaneConsular]

Hardcore is basically the opposite of casual gaming. Casual gaming are games that you can hop in and out of for 30 minutes and still have fun. Hardcore are the opposite, games that require a lot more effort and time to play

 

[Jatix]

I used to think hardcore had to do with full loot open pvp. But these days hardcore seems to mean waste a ton of time. Because MO2's goal sofar has been to take as much time as possible. And if you dont enjoy spending as much time as possible, it doesnt want you to play. So its more hardcore by taking 2 hours to get zerged instead of 1.

 

[Evelyn]

Skipping over everyone's replies to give my opinion first...

To me, a hardcore game is one that is very punishing, so much so that the "casual" player (one who just occasionally plays, not someone who plays it constantly and repetitively trying to defeat goals or raise a bar endlessly) will generally not get very far. This can be because of the game itself, or because of playing a game in a specific way.

Let's use Pokemon for example. It's a very casual game and has only become increasingly so over the years. But it can be played in a hardcore manner through a made-up community ruleset called Nuzlocke (various rules, permadeath, and more). Other games have facets that are hardcore (example; Sans in the Genocide Route of Undertale) but themselves are still made to appeal to most audiences. Mortal Online 2 is somewhat close to this, but it still less so.

Games that are truly "hardcore" are somewhat rare. A good example of this is that I immediately think of is Zelda 2: Adventure of Link. The combat in the game is rather fluid and fairly intuitive but the game itself tells you very little. Mistakes are punished heavily and rewards are always behind risks. When you die and Game Over, you are sent back to the starting area (but you keep your progress) making the game reasonably able to be completed with enough determination to get past the next obstacle whether it's the monster or the environment. But those obstacles will never get any easier. Where to go is only explained in vague hints or not at all.

Mortal Online 2 has hardcore elements at first glance, but you quickly realize it is not really all that punishing. Passable gear can be made with the most basic resources that require minimal effort no matter what combat style you prefer. Professions are not that difficult to figure out. Yes you lose all of your carried items when you die, but that matters little when you can simply pick flowers to either buy vendor gear or buy gear/materials from the broker.

Basic gear is not actually worth much of anything and once you realize that, it becomes apparent that there is no real risk for the rewards besides maybe your ego and time. To me it places this game in a "kinda hardcore but not really" position, which in early examples is where I'd put say "Undertale Genocide Route" as while it can set you back time and ego you can't ever really "lose" this game. There's always rewards within easy reach that take no risk. Which is a good thing as it helps to retain players.

 

[Kameyo]

Hardcore in this game means I can push through your bubble and affect how you want to play the game.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

For me, this is what hardcore means.

A world where nowhere is safe. Your survival isn't assured and sometimes all that stands between you and certain death is your timely use of your shield and a large boulder that just happens to be beneath your feet. All the while the odds are heavily stacked against you, simply because you happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time: