Updated Intelligence "Curve"

Eldrath

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2020
1,047
991
113
the Jungle. Meditating on things to come.
Am I the only person who wasn't even a little bit surprised by this?

Surprised is the wrong word. When Seb opened his mouth and said they would look into it I was fairly certain it would be shit. If you are a hammer that can only do linear equations, you will treat everything like nail.

It does follow the general trend to smooth out and normalize everything. Having a curve with plateaus and jumps (ideally different ones for various spells) would require someone of intellect to design and a non-hammer programmer.

The fruit of that labor would be more variety in builds and more fun for those of us who like to figure shit out.
 

Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
1,755
1,217
113
@Grack

I got your post in my email but I don't see it here. Did you delete it or something? It was a very long post so I will summarize my response by simply addressing our conclusion and the overall theme of your post rather than every single point made.

"You can not be best at everything at all times. I am happy to discuss numbers and theory if you like because honestly when you sit back and look at it from every type of play style and the give and take of each race and clade it is actually quite balanced and very impressive compared to mo1"

The hybrids we had last week were by no means the best at everything. They were weaker than full-fighter in melee and weaker than mages at magic. That's why last week you saw a lot of full-fighters, full-mages, and hybrids all running around being played. And half the hybrids are because the two alliances in the most major server war keep fighting in water where only magic works (almost certainly not how it's intended to be longterm) and it was causing a temporary spike in mages as hybrids. If you wanted to be melee only hybrids could confirm kills when the enemy runs to water which is how MOST fights end in GK. A very temporary problem that requires no solution beyond making melee and archery work in water.

So we had three balanced playstles. Look at the chart I started this topic with. Does that buff fat mages? Barely. Does it buff dex mages? A little. Does it nerf hybrids? Ooooooh yeah. Big time. So when you take three fairly balanced playstyles, all fairly useful, all fairly balanced, and then you take a massive steaming dump on one of them, that's how you kill a build.

The only thing we needed (and still kind of do) was a buff to dex mages. Particularly in the 100 INT range. The only thing we got was a nerf to hybrids.
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
762
944
93
Thats what I have been saying. The change didn't really do much of anything to mages. It only nerfed hybrids.

When everyone was talking about wanting a change in Int scaling so that more Int mattered...we didn't mean make lower Int useless and kill hybrid builds. A few people keep trying to compare Int to stats like Dex and Con by saying you can't have 50 in those and expect much...but I seriously think its different with Int and Str as those are the two main damage attributes. You can do viable damage at lower strengths (in MO1 i ran 64 strength on hybrid and it was just fine). Was it as good as the 115 Str Khurites? Absolutely not. But it was viable...I could make do with it. I sacrificed Strength to have more magic. You need 70 Int to even think about it being worth casting.

For the people that keep repeating themselves saying that 50 Int shouldn't be as effective as 100 Int....yes we know and all agree with that. But the current change is far too drastic and at the end of the day kills a very popular playstyle.

Honestly they could just give Alvarin more attribute points and it wouldn't be as bad. They are the main clade that got hit with this nerf. Id still prefer to see the floor raised on Int though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vergil

Morwen

Member
Mar 18, 2021
78
53
18
So we had three balanced playstles. Look at the chart I started this topic with. Does that buff fat mages? Barely. Does it buff dex mages? A little. Does it nerf hybrids? Ooooooh yeah. Big time. So when you take three fairly balanced playstyles, all fairly useful, all fairly balanced, and then you take a massive steaming dump on one of them, that's how you kill a build.

The only thing we needed (and still kind of do) was a buff to dex mages. Particularly in the 100 INT range. The only thing we got was a nerf to hybrids.

Dude this argument is so pointless at the current state of the game that I really really hope SV dev team doesnt spend a minute more trying to please a minority of sweater MO1 vets tryhards.

Magic is still lacking magic schools, jewelry, domination, fat mages have to be seen in their context and their footspeed reduced, with breeding, horses and lykiatiors and MC on the game, half of footfight skills (which affect hybrids) are not even working properly or are pointless to spend primary points in, also the same with some magic skills like concentration which doesnt even work as intended, armor sets and weapons still missing (which hybrids could benefit from), etc

When all that is on the game then we can sit down and discuss al the different playstyles a mage has.

Right now there is no point to compare them and prepatch hybrid had no room on MO2 build balance.

I really couldnt care less if veela 50 int lovers are crying and tindreme hybrid are not the same, I dont really give a shit, it's different game, different footfighter builds, different hybrids builds.

You wanted a build which could outrun everybody, nuke, jump around, 30 less hp? who cares, you can heal yourself or outrun him or do a endless parry match, less stamina? who cares I still outrun you lmao, 10% damage bonus? who cares 10% is bullshit anyway when using bis weapons, so.. ye, you have to get over it and go on.
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
762
944
93
I really couldnt care less if veela 50 int lovers are crying and tindreme hybrid are not the same, I dont really give a shit, it's different game, different footfighter builds, different hybrids builds.
This is exactly why replying to people like you is pointless. You have a group of people giving their feedback on a recent balance change...and you're here just to argue. If you don't give a shit why are you even in this conversation?

We don't "have to get over it and move on". Thats not how this works...

Also to say "hybrid had no room on MO2 balance". There was ZERO talk about hybrids needing nerfed before this patch. Now that they are (Veela at least)...youre just excited bc you obviously have been outplayed by them one time too many...
 

Morwen

Member
Mar 18, 2021
78
53
18
This is exactly why replying to people like you is pointless. You have a group of people giving their feedback on a recent balance change...and you're here just to argue. If you don't give a shit why are you even in this conversation?

We don't "have to get over it and move on". Thats not how this works...

Also to say "hybrid had no room on MO2 balance". There was ZERO talk about hybrids needing nerfed before this patch. Now that they are (Veela at least)...youre just excited bc you obviously have been outplayed by them one time too many...

"ZERO talks" about 50 int being the same as 100 int? wtf, were you sleeping all this time?
 

Morwen

Member
Mar 18, 2021
78
53
18
It may amaze you but you can balance things without nerfing things to the ground. Even though that is the prefered method by starvault so I can understand the confusion.

I started playing MO before even butchery patch, where you loot the mats directly from the mobs, probably I have played more MO1 than you, I guarantee you I know SV very well and their patches and I also tell you we are now on a beta with half of skills not working, with even non existent builds like necros, dominators, MC, and probably int curve has more sense then.

I still dont care about a specific veela 50 int build because if SV has to care about all the hunderd of posibilities they will go crazy on the balance, linear curves are always better, that curve with "plateaus" and "jumps" that the other dude propose would be a nightmare for QA team lmao
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
762
944
93
"ZERO talks" about 50 int being the same as 100 int? wtf, were you sleeping all this time?
I wrote the thread...so no I wasn't "sleeping". For the 9873892 time...we wanted change but not the change we got. It was an extreme and lazy adjustment to the scaling.

You're a lost cause. You just can't seem to wrap your head around it...

linear curves are always better, that curve with "plateaus" and "jumps" that the other dude propose would be a nightmare for QA team lmao
Yeah it actually takes brainpower and testing. Imagine...
 

Morwen

Member
Mar 18, 2021
78
53
18
You obviously have 0 reading comprehension skills which further reduces the need to argue with you.



There's the actual quote, maybe read it 3 times before responding

One things come with the other, lmao, and you talk about reading comprenhension.

Hey, its always the same 4 dudes quoting me, stop it, I am trying to discuss with Kaemik and I quoted him, get your circlejerk on your own discord or wherever, I will have to end adding you all to ignore list, that MolagAmur is even quoting me on MO discord now lmao.
 

Kelzyr

Active member
Sep 22, 2020
270
194
43
One things come with the other, lmao, and you talk about reading comprenhension.

There we go, the real issue in the room!!! We found it guys. He thinks int scaling and hybrid nerfing goes hand in hand. The rest of us don't.

Mystery solved.
 

Eldrath

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2020
1,047
991
113
the Jungle. Meditating on things to come.
If the intended goal was to differentiate between intelligence 50 and 100 they could have added a simple progression from 50 to 100 to the existing curve. Obviously there is no concrete feedback from SV as to what their intented goal was. So this is all speculation and assumptions. It´s also why it is incredibly hard to give feedback, because SV just does weird changes that no one who is immersed in the games meta fully understands. Even the ones arguing for this change can´t provide arguments other than "INT 50 should not be as good as INT 100". Which is A. silly (100 gives you 100 mana, 50 gives you 50 mana) and B. would have been solved with adding linear progression to 50 to 100.

Herius should (who has been very silent during MO2s development) have come out and said: "We think doing damage with magic and healing should require a much higher intelligence investment. Furthermore we want less magic damage and healing in total, thus empowering heavy armour users, potions and decreasing the niche for archers"

That would have been something concrete to go on and give feedback. Doing balance in this cryptic and irrational way leads to the backlash shown here.

Sadly this is exactly what was happened all the time in MO1, which shows that SV has indeed not learned from their mistakes at all. Which also explains why these changes annoy long time players the most. We´ve been here and done that for 10 years.

Now, it would be easy to not argue and not hotly oppose this practise and just wait and walk away if the game turns bad. Which is what a lot of players are actually doing. Personally I´d rather argue till a point of no feasible return and hope that SV does learn. Even if that requires reshuffling and rebuilding their team.
 

Runaljod

Member
Jan 3, 2021
42
34
18
Final clade gifts could go a long way to make a strong dex mage, though of course dex itself needs work. (more stamina from dex pls)
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
762
944
93
Agreed. Reasoning and knowing their thought process on changes that are this big would be really good. Its one thing I loved about reading ESO patch notes. They went into detail on why the changes happened and what they intended to achieve with the changes.

Herius hasn't said a single word. And it's pretty shitty. Yes the game is in beta, but isn't this one of the most important times to connect with the community and discuss things.

This is off-topic but do you guys remember the short period Alvarin had the extra mana clade gift? It gave you like 60 mana iirc. They scrapped it before a meta could even be made...just like most Alvarin clades.
 

Runaljod

Member
Jan 3, 2021
42
34
18
This is off-topic but do you guys remember the short period Alvarin had the extra mana clade gift? It gave you like 60 mana iirc. They scrapped it before a meta could even be made...just like most Alvarin clades.

Oh I remember. I'm hoping it makes a come back or something similar. They replaced it with combat jump..
 

Searven

New member
Apr 14, 2021
1
0
1
Yo if 50 int hybrids are viable again, i wanna be viable with my 50 strentgh hybrid as well. Make it possible, thanks.
 

StreamerLord

Active member
Dec 2, 2020
106
77
28
The current int scaling is a lazy half measure just like calling the fireball spell outburst because a ball of fire traveling through the air would be to much work. Classic low effort SV.