Tindrem + Haven

[Slyy]

Patch is awesome and new stuff looks great!
But has anyone heard if Tindrem + Haven is really finished?

I heard Henrik say Haven was the same size as old Myrland in MO1 and that was months ago. I'm sure we were all very surprised to see its just a copy of Fabernum and does not stretch further than Kran lake. It also seems like only the main district of Tindrem is in - was quite disappointed to see 80% has been cut out even with the old Tindrem being far too big.

 

[Attila The Hun]

that is dissapointing..

 

[Rorry]

Patch is awesome and new stuff looks great!
But has anyone heard if Tindrem + Haven is really finished?

I heard Henrik say Haven was the same size as old Myrland in MO1 and that was months ago. I'm sure we were all very surprised to see its just a copy of Fabernum and does not stretch further than Kran lake. It also seems like only the main district of Tindrem is in - was quite disappointed to see 80% has been cut out even with the old Tindrem being far too big.

Haven isn't finished, but I don't know about whether the size or design will change, or if they will just add features. I only specifically heard them talk about adding things.

 

[Rhias]

I was really hyped for the patch and also persistent.
I even stood up in the middle of the night to play the patch.
I think everyone knows that I love the vision behind MO and I wish SV honestly the best luck. I wasn't even sure if I should post this at all.
However, I was really disappointed by last patch.

I'm getting a heart attack if I need to write all this again, so just a copy past from a PM.

"I was actually rather disappointed by the last patch.
Haven just a copy of Fabernum.
I walked around there and found a sprinbok (which a noob character can't catch), and a jung bear that 3 hitted me, was unblockable and was able to sticky back.

After Haven I got teleported to a random town - Vadda. For some reasons the guards were bugged out (not available at all) and I got instantly killed by 5 random dudes. Then the Priest Room was also bugged (it's supposed to be within a cave, but for some reason the cave entrance was still blocked by a wall).
Okay, recreated a new character.
Spawned in MK and walked towards Toxai. In the wilderness there seems to be not a single creature in the area.

Then there are things like the movement speed... The time it took me from the spawn point towards the end of MK felt like ~10 minutes. I even created a character with 120 dex. Without skills it was sooo fucking slow. For some reason my Athletics/Footspeed was bugged out and didn't start leveling by learning by doing.

I had so much hope in MO2 and thought they would do everything better.
Right now I'm not even sure if I'm going to play at persistent.

Oh, and there is the AI... Pathing a nightmare. And why the fuck didn't they make the spawnpoints more dynamic? Yes, AI now moves randomly in hordes. But it still has fixed spawn points, and areas which seem to be completely empty. Couldn't they make it like a large area and just randomly spawn creatures within it? Or even dynamicly. We got deserts trees around and desert texture. Shouldn't be too hard to dynamically detect the biom and spawn the fitting monsters...

And the "tutorial" island.
Why don't make the player spawn close to some "tame" pigs. Let them butcher them and show them the amazing crafting system by letting them craft a simple armor and a simple weapon. Instead people walk naked randomly for an hour across Haven and don't know what to do.

To be honest, if even I as a Vet MO1 player don't feel like playing MO2 after the one hour, how is a new player supposed to stay?

Guess I'm not "hardcore" enough. "

 

[Attila The Hun]

I was really hyped for the patch and also persistent.
I even stood up in the middle of the night to play the patch.
I think everyone knows that I love the vision behind MO and I wish SV honestly the best luck. I wasn't even sure if I should post this at all.
However, I was really disappointed by last patch.

I'm getting a heart attack if I need to write all this again, so just a copy past from a PM.

"I was actually rather disappointed by the last patch.
Haven just a copy of Fabernum.
I walked around there and found a sprinbok (which a noob character can't catch), and a jung bear that 3 hitted me, was unblockable and was able to sticky back.

After Haven I got teleported to a random town - Vadda. For some reasons the guards were bugged out (not available at all) and I got instantly killed by 5 random dudes. Then the Priest Room was also bugged (it's supposed to be within a cave, but for some reason the cave entrance was still blocked by a wall).
Okay, recreated a new character.
Spawned in MK and walked towards Toxai. In the wilderness there seems to be not a single creature in the area.

Then there are things like the movement speed... The time it took me from the spawn point towards the end of MK felt like ~10 minutes. I even created a character with 120 dex. Without skills it was sooo fucking slow. For some reason my Athletics/Footspeed was bugged out and didn't start leveling by learning by doing.

I had so much hope in MO2 and thought they would do everything better.
Right now I'm not even sure if I'm going to play at persistent.

Oh, and there is the AI... Pathing a nightmare. And why the fuck didn't they make the spawnpoints more dynamic? Yes, AI now moves randomly in hordes. But it still has fixed spawn points, and areas which seem to be completely empty. Couldn't they make it like a large area and just randomly spawn creatures within it? Or even dynamicly. We got deserts trees around and desert texture. Shouldn't be too hard to dynamically detect the biom and spawn the fitting monsters...

And the "tutorial" island.
Why don't make the player spawn close to some "tame" pigs. Let them butcher them and show them the amazing crafting system by letting them craft a simple armor and a simple weapon. Instead people walk naked randomly for an hour across Haven and don't know what to do.

To be honest, if even I as a Vet MO1 player don't feel like playing MO2 after the one hour, how is a new player supposed to stay?

Guess I'm not "hardcore" enough. "

I completely agree, Starvault should cancel the stresstest, nowhere near ready.

People who play the stresstest know its in beta, but they don't care, if they see it in this state, many of them will not come back.

 

[Xunila]

@Rhias I can understand and partially agree. The most important bugs (like animals following and attacking until death, the random spawn, skill window displaying constant primary points and not the sum, bonus points in second row not cleaned when changing the skill) will hopefully be fixed today or tomorrow.

But the worst for me is the emptiness of the world! 15k animals sound much but are nothing on the current world size. One can run for ten minutes without seeing any animal before suddenly a wolf comes out of the floor and kills. I just have been in Toxai where I started at release day of MO1. The city looks great but is far too large and too far away from any animal or other useful stuff. I don't believe that those large cities will be used by the players when you have to run for 5-10 minutes between opposite corners. Players will concentrate on smaller cities in the central and west parts of the world.

 

[Rankor]

Watch the Lore livestream with Matts.......Tindy is going to be smaller this time around.

 

[Rhias]

@Rhias I can understand and partially agree. The most important bugs (like animals following and attacking until death, the random spawn, skill window displaying constant primary points and not the sum, bonus points in second row not cleaned when changing the skill) will hopefully be fixed today or tomorrow.

But the worst for me is the emptiness of the world! 15k animals sound much but are nothing on the current world size. One can run for ten minutes without seeing any animal before suddenly a wolf comes out of the floor and kills. I just have been in Toxai where I started at release day of MO1. The city looks great but is far too large and too far away from any animal or other useful stuff. I don't believe that those large cities will be used by the players when you have to run for 5-10 minutes between opposite corners. Players will concentrate on smaller cities in the central and west parts of the world.

I'd rather see a smaller map and lot's of stuff to do than a big map and nothing to do for miles. I get the feeling that MO1 repeats once again. There were so many areas that got no attention at all.
And now, map X times bigger than before?

 

[Rhias]

I completely agree, Starvault should cancel the stresstest, nowhere near ready.

People who play the stresstest know its in beta, but they don't care, if they see it in this state, many of them will not come back.

Too late, MO2 got so much attention recently with those big streamers jumping in.
That's the clicks of my Youtube Channel. And the peak in the end happens within the last 7 days.
People are hyped. Now it's the point to deliver...

 

[Rhias]

But since I'm already in the mood...
Some pro & con list:

Pro:
+ Environment looks beautiful.
+ Combat system also playable for high ping players.
+ "Mid-tear" combat is a lot of fun (vs players that did not yet learn how to abuse animations).
+ Deep crafting (basically copy from MO1)

Cons:
- "High-End" combat is shit (IMHO). The person who is the best at abusing the animation wins. The "good" PVPers basically abuse the right swing / pierce combination of spears without shields, or the right swing & overhead animation of swords by jerking their view somewhere into the nowhere...
- World is empty and feels repetitive. You can walk from Kranesh towards the East and it basically the forest looks all the same for 20 minutes. Same for the Moh-Ki, Bakti or Vadda Forest. Some towns are way to big and feel empty. You can walk in MK for 20 minutes without basically anything to do.
- Lots of roads that lead into nowhere, start randomly, split randomly, and end randomly.
- Areas close to towns seem to get more attention than further away areas. Which means there is basically no incentive to leave the town and explore the wild.
- Haven... Waste of potential. Creatures there to "advanced" and not noob friendly. I would rather see a "tutorial" where you can gather some basic resources from a barrel, craft some basic weapons & armor, bash some "tame" pigs, learn skinning and showing the combat basics like directional blocking and parry's by a "combat instructor".
- newb experience is just bad. Even with a worn shortsword you stam super fast and it's a pain to fight with (probably my starting character got not enought STR to use it decently). Character is super slow. It feels like slow motion. You spawn somewhere and you feel "lost", not knowing what to do. Unable to find important places such as Banks or the Graveyard (no signs, etc.)
- weapons far away from balanced

 

[Attila The Hun]

SV got lazy again. They half-assed it and now the stresstest will be a major fail. After the first two days people will start getting bored after they realize how many bugs and issues there is.

 

[Dimandius]

I have to agree that the game is not ready for the massive influx of attention it is about to receive.

• Haven is a confusing experience in itself (probably very early rendition, with most of the terrain being there, but still not populated with any interesting mobs or NPCs).
• There are many gamebreaking bugs (e.g. I got rocketed into the sky and fell down from like 200 meters, getting 600 fall damage) still present.
• Explanatory texts are lacking all over the place (character creation, skill books, etc.).
• Lack of polish is very evident in graphics clipping, animations, etc.

While it's extremely unlikely that the stress test will be cancelled after so much hype, I am sincerely holding my breath for SV to postpone their plans for a persistent release for at least a month. The game is far from ready and they have a lot more stuff to sort before starting to charge people the monthly sub. Plus, you can only do a release that attracts decent attention once, so you should give it your best shot!

 

[KermyWormy]

The shortcomings do often come across as laziness, but I lean more towards incompetence as it seems most "new" features end up broken in obvious ways...like they have to know they did not deliver what they needed to with this last update. So much is broken....like how do you push an update with the AI in the state it is currently...no leash, unblockable super speed attacks and able to run down even the fastest fleeing players? Come on guys.

But I still give them the benefit of the doubt in that they're trying their best and I hope beyond what I should at this point that they'll figure it out and get it done.

 

[HrafnBorrsson]

- Areas close to towns seem to get more attention than further away areas. Which means there is basically no incentive to leave the town and explore the wild.

I agree with a lot of what you said (at least the stuff I've experienced so far and can comment towards; I just started playing yesterday), but this bit here I think isn't necessarily bad. In the real world that's how hubs of civilization would be. City/Town > surrounding hamlets and villages > farmlands > wild natural land for a ways until you get near another hub and start seeing farmlands popping up.

 

[Darthus]

@Rhias, I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed. It sounds like you were hoping that by the main stress test/before persistent, they'd have reached their vision for an improved MO1.

I just want to note that most new people who've entered the game appear to be blown away by it, even in its current somewhat buggy/unfinished state. Two things to keep in mind:

1. If you want the game to be a success, think from the perspective of someone who's only played WoW, or Valheim or Skyrim and then sees them all combined in an MMO. Nobody else, NOBODY is doing this at all.
2. SV has shown that they have been improving and iterating at a lightning pace. Even since you made your post they've implemented tutors that teach you how to do all the main crafting, butchery, combat mechanics, give you purpose and basic skills to do it.

Honestly, I dunno about Henrik saying Haven was going to be the size of MO1 Myrland, but sorry, that sounds dumb, maybe they realized it was a bad idea. The purpose of Haven is to get you used to the basic loops in the game and get you excited to get out in the real world, not hang out there. I agree it shouldn't look like Fabernum, but it's instanced, so they can update it at any time.

Summary is that 95% of what I saw you upset about are just things that aren't done yet, not things that will never be done. If you think they haven't been developing fast enough, you are familiar with some insanely fast iterating other games. And if ya'll think they should not be exposing this game to new people yet becasue it's not perfect/finished, just look in the help chat and at streamers' initial impressions, it's been almost universal minds blown.

The game right now is not the full MO2 vision. Is it enough to show people to really test the servers and start to get the word out? I think maybe so. Remember, this is not even a game in Early Access, it's a stress test for a beta of a pre Early Access game, I think people are tolerant of some rough around the edges if the vision is there and fun.

 

[RaptorBlackz]

But since I'm already in the mood...
Some pro & con list:

Pro:
+ Environment looks beautiful.
+ Combat system also playable for high ping players.
+ "Mid-tear" combat is a lot of fun (vs players that did not yet learn how to abuse animations).
+ Deep crafting (basically copy from MO1)

Cons:
- "High-End" combat is shit (IMHO). The person who is the best at abusing the animation wins. The "good" PVPers basically abuse the right swing / pierce combination of spears without shields, or the right swing & overhead animation of swords by jerking their view somewhere into the nowhere...
- World is empty and feels repetitive. You can walk from Kranesh towards the East and it basically the forest looks all the same for 20 minutes. Same for the Moh-Ki, Bakti or Vadda Forest. Some towns are way to big and feel empty. You can walk in MK for 20 minutes without basically anything to do.
- Lots of roads that lead into nowhere, start randomly, split randomly, and end randomly.
- Areas close to towns seem to get more attention than further away areas. Which means there is basically no incentive to leave the town and explore the wild.
- Haven... Waste of potential. Creatures there to "advanced" and not noob friendly. I would rather see a "tutorial" where you can gather some basic resources from a barrel, craft some basic weapons & armor, bash some "tame" pigs, learn skinning and showing the combat basics like directional blocking and parry's by a "combat instructor".
- newb experience is just bad. Even with a worn shortsword you stam super fast and it's a pain to fight with (probably my starting character got not enought STR to use it decently). Character is super slow. It feels like slow motion. You spawn somewhere and you feel "lost", not knowing what to do. Unable to find important places such as Banks or the Graveyard (no signs, etc.)
- weapons far away from balanced

+1

Haven should've came out a long time ago so we could've given this EXACT feedback, The same mistake is once again going to happen just like the 'MO1' steam release.

Soo many newcomers are still unfamiliar with the combat, I've seen nothing but frustration from players whom don't know how to charge swings or directional block because it was POORLY explained just like every other time.

Lack of direction as soon as they spawn into haven, Atleast give a big sign that points to the graveyard or something.

 

[Rhias]

I'm not saying they are developing slow. In my opinion they just set the wrong priorities.
MO1 had issues with the newb experience.
In MO2 I can see the same issues again. And from looking what's available it seems like the newb experience is on a low priority.

 

[Favonius Cornelius]

Patch is awesome and new stuff looks great!
But has anyone heard if Tindrem + Haven is really finished?

I heard Henrik say Haven was the same size as old Myrland in MO1 and that was months ago. I'm sure we were all very surprised to see its just a copy of Fabernum and does not stretch further than Kran lake. It also seems like only the main district of Tindrem is in - was quite disappointed to see 80% has been cut out even with the old Tindrem being far too big.

Could not agree more: Tindrem needs way more. Hopefully the seaward side has much more going on like before.

 

[Jhackman]

They probably are trying to get new players to test out the game and hear their complaints to see what eyes other then jaded old vets think need fixing/changing.

 

[Favonius Cornelius]

Then there are things like the movement speed... The time it took me from the spawn point towards the end of MK felt like ~10 minutes. I even created a character with 120 dex. Without skills it was sooo fucking slow. For some reason my Athletics/Footspeed was bugged out and didn't start leveling by learning by doing.

Ya, please SV, let up on movement speed, even if you get more hardcore about it later. Oozing around like this is too painful to want to test in.