The great transition from pvp-asshole-arena to community sandbox mmo

[Inai]

I feel like Mortal needs to shed alot of old baggage from its past. This will and should contain losing players. What this game set out to be is a true sandbox mmo with many playstyles, a living and breathing world with many different communities.

Glimpses of that can be found in the game today.

What holds the game back is the hardcore-asshole-pvp crowd that is pestering these type of games. They flock to full-loot-mmos and destroy them from the inside. They have a very narrow-minded pvp-centric vision for the game and anyone entering the game with high hopes will eventually understand that this is "the way things are" and leave again.

They become the majority of the vocal player base and the devs try to make the best of it and just roll with this shitty "community". These people are often very loud and angry, making it a nightmare for the devs to interact with them.

What I'm saying here is that the actual people inside StarVault need to realize that it is up to them if want to listen to these people and promote this type of game or not. It's a difficult task for sure to put your foot down against assholes, especially if they are paying customers.

But really ask yourself what you want this game to become and then act on it.

I leave it up to everyones own perception who exactly falls under this category, but I think you get the gist of it.

We don't need to antagonize anyone but rather stop feeding and regarding them. Walk towards the real game you want to make without looking back to whats trying to hold you back.

 

[Sally]

What they need to do, is have a means of players placing deliberate bounties on people.

There should be a bounty board in town, and players should be able to put money up to place a bounty. To claim the bounty, someone just brings the head of the player to the bounty board.

Someone mentioned this could be exploited. Sure, it could. But it doesn't impact the economy at all. It isn't like doing a quest that rewards you with gold. It is someone else's gold that they've put up.

Second, it is far more likely it won't be exploited, since the logistics of doing such an exploit require knowing a bounty has been placed on yourself beforehand, which they'd be unaware of. So it is far more likely that won't happen, and it will play out as intended.

But if people really are worried this would be exploited, you could just make it so the person who placed the bounty has to confirm everyone who wants to take the contract. That way, if they know it is someone affiliated with the person who has the bounty, they can just deny them the contract.

In turn, this will create a counter force to the types of players who tend to gank at graveyards and beginning areas and beyond.

This bounty board should let players put a description on the bounty, like a location or something along those lines.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

What they need to do, is have a means of players placing deliberate bounties on people.

There should be a bounty board in town, and players should be able to put money up to place a bounty. To claim the bounty, someone just brings the head of the player to the bounty board.

Someone mentioned this could be exploited. Sure, it could. But it doesn't impact the economy at all. It isn't like doing a quest that rewards you with gold. It is someone else's gold that they've put up.

Second, it is far more likely it won't be exploited, since the logistics of doing such an exploit require knowing a bounty has been placed on yourself beforehand, which they'd be unaware of. So it is far more likely that won't happen, and it will play out as intended.

But if people really are worried this would be exploited, you could just make it so the person who placed the bounty has to confirm everyone who wants to take the contract. That way, if they know it is someone affiliated with the person who has the bounty, they can just deny them the contract.

In turn, this will create a counter force to the types of players who tend to gank at graveyards and beginning areas and beyond.

This bounty board should let players put a description on the bounty, like a location or something along those lines.

The way EVE Online does bounty hunting (or at least one of the ways) is that they have kill rights that can be put up for sale like any commodity. The person who wants the kill right pays the amount entered by the seller. This means that the person taking the 'bounty' contract is more likely to do it because they actually want to, not for the money.

This might work in MO2 just like it does in EVE.

 

[Gnidex]

The way EVE Online does bounty hunting (or at least one of the ways) is that they have kill rights that can be put up for sale like any commodity. The person who wants the kill right pays the amount entered by the seller. This means that the person taking the 'bounty' contract is more likely to do it because they actually want to, not for the money.

This might work in MO2 just like it does in EVE.

Selling kill rights would work as it does in Eve. Bounties will just get turned in by alts or friends, as they do in Eve.

 

[KebekLorde]

The game's conent is dicated by community as a whole, there were votes beiing made on what the new content should be since the early begginings.
Even the current roadmap was fully decided by players from vast amount of option including a lot of RP, new mechanics or further expansions to TC etc.
Yet the majority voted for the PvP oriented content beiing updates to combat and new dungeons.

So either the part of the community that isnt PvP focused is either so small it cant make an impact or doesnt follow the game's news and streams to do the bare minimum and vote and what should the devs develop next. Im not saying that we shouldnt have more content that isnt focused around PvP but clearly most people playing want it to be so at least for now.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Even the current roadmap was fully decided by players from vast amount of option including a lot of RP, new mechanics or further expansions to TC etc.
Yet the majority voted for the PvP oriented content beiing updates to combat and new dungeons.

A lot of people have expressed legitimate scepticism about the current roadmap being decided by the players when it was a completely open-door and free-for-all voting system where all you needed was a Gmail account(s).

But it is what it is for now until SV implements something better where only those with an actual game account in good standing can vote in future roadmap feature polls.

 

[CherryKush]

A lot of people have expressed legitimate scepticism about the current roadmap being decided by the players when it was a completely open-door and free-for-all voting system where all you needed was a Gmail account(s).

But it is what it is for now until SV implements something better where only those with an actual game account in good standing can vote in future roadmap feature polls.

I hope its an email to an owned account because for the thieves that are not subbed in game because thievery does not exist yet wont get to vote on thievery lol... But really its a core part of MO so voting on it is kinda silly anyways. Just schedule it to be part of an upcoming patch and make MO, MO again...

 

[Xenom]

Selling kill rights would work as it does in Eve. Bounties will just get turned in by alts or friends, as they do in Eve.

In eve bounties work different for quite a while. Only the value that gets blown up gets reduced from the bounty pool so I doubt there is bounty trading to friends as it would cost the hunted one exactly what gets reduced?

Nothing that would work in MO tho as nothing gets lost on a kill but just moves to someone else.

In general I agree tho that MO2 should be a sandbox game first and not focus on the few vocals that praise it to be a pvp arena only. I also think business wise this would be the only viable option to make it successful long term.

 

[Jackdstripper]

I do believe SV is finally relenting and softening the theme of MO with the major changes to red flags, elite guard towers on roads, lawful/lawless zones. Only after losing thousands of players and watching their player-base condensing back to MO1’s toxic douchebag RPK elitists (which by the way tends to be extremely exploiters heavy) , have they been forced to re-think their no consequences, pro-greefer rulesets.

However, its too late now, this stuff needed to be in at the start. Most non hard-core pvpers have left the game and the community that remain hate the changes. Obviously.
The game now has a reputation of a unfair, unbridled greef/gank fest, and it will be incredibly difficult to change public opinion so late into the game.

Even if people wanted to come back they now have to deal with the hard core pvpers having farmed wealth for years now. Catching up is hardly worth the effort.

A sandbox mmo with only hard core pvpers id not a sandbox, its a ganking arena. Pvers are just as important for a healthy mmo population, and there needs to be place for them as well. Henrik has never understood this and has always leaned towards listening to the hard core RPK crowd. And so thats all his game ever seems to attract.

 

[Emdash]

You dudes who think hardcore pvp is the reason this game is trash are wrong, simple as that. I've said it manytimes. I don't normally come out and say people are wrong because 'rightness' exists on a spectrum, but in this case you are 100% wrong. The game might not work FOR YOU if it had better pvp (including combat tbh heh,) but it would be much more successful. It has nothing to do with being too late. It has to do with the game having an identity crisis.

PvErs exist within the spaces left by pvpers. One can say the pvpers drive the world, but it's both. Again, I played MO1 and the only time I PK'd someone was in Tindrem after I spawned in just to see if it was as easy as it seemed haha. There was enough distance between the guards to make it happen. That's important to have.

There should be SOME safe spaces, but not many. There should not be safe spaces outside of towns. Red players are some of the only content in the game. With them 'working as intended,' you don't need stuff like dynamic spawns. People need to play the game. They somehow think dynamic spawns are ok but getting zerged is not haha.

The world is way bigger now and there is plenty of space for people to PvE. More PvPers actually means PvPers are more likely to fight each other. MO1 was a pretty low pop game, which is why it was such a gank fest. Even then, there was plenty of time I spent out without encountering anyone. IF there were constantly players moving around, when you fought someone, other people would get involved. It would work out. It would be interesting.

They softened the game, but you can still grief people. They are still posting steam reviews about how vets are farming people out of the game. As long as PvE players like crafters have something they can do, the game is fine. If there isn't a 'gank tax' things start to snowball. You're right, people who hold stuff like GK get mega geared, but eventually they get bored and quit. You just gotta look at that as the loop. Those people are different than your average player. They are playing a different game in a different world, but they are vital to the whole of Nave. They sell mats, too, or enable others like ICH to sell mats. They are hard hard no-lifing.

MO added more stuff like trinkz and made you pay thousands for magic, to make it so that you have to no life in general if you even wanna spec a decent character. That was one of their problems. MO1 was just spend a day or two speccing your char and get it in. If MO2 was like that, people would at least be trying it a lot more. The combat is ass, tho haha.

You gotta trust that it'll work itself out. This game, where TC makes places look like inner cities, is a joke in regards to what would actually be 'a good game.' It's exactly what everyone who was anti-pvp wanted. What do you get? A very lifeless, boring game.

Even the dude in the Raylie reports vid (which I just watched) said the game would be hella boring without enemies.

People 5v1ing my mount as nakeds, yea that's griefy. I ain't mad, but that doesn't need to be in the game. Pushing people in the water so they drown, etc, that kinda stuff can be removed. Being able to assassinate people in between guards? I think that is an intregal part of MO life. That's something you can do if you want.

All the grave yard griefers were effectively removed from the game and, strangely, the game suffered.

I would legit go farm meduli GY until some shit started sometimes, or Bakti. It didn't take long. Bakti it would still happen unless they put guards there. It should be like that in every town except maybe tin. In the same way pve content is gated lo, med, hi, so is pvp content. Everything starts from the base level.

 

[azezal]

Be a tamer MA. At the minimum you will lose a dense crepite bow and some cheap dire wolves, or just horses if your taming them. Also when you kite if you have marksmanship skill you can often head shot the RPK's horse that is chasing you with headshots and kill it. I honestly don't care about dying since I make enough gold that even if lost an expensive pet it would not impact me much.

I'm anti social so I play solo and tamer/ma works well for solo. Other builds you can try are tamer/mm and tamer/ritualist

 

[Bladeer01]

i don't play anymore so i may miss some change , but the fact i don't understand is that death isnt a real punishment , as a rpk , you can cause damage and have gain worth a lot more than your loss ... you can gank someone with minimum gear , if you win you gain it's loot and satisfaction , i'm still ok with that , but dam , last time i played , you could kill , farm rep a bit , rinse and repeat , nothing much to loose compared to that satisfaction ...

 

[Emdash]

Be a tamer MA. At the minimum you will lose a dense crepite bow and some cheap dire wolves, or just horses if your taming them. Also when you kite if you have marksmanship skill you can often head shot the RPK's horse that is chasing you with headshots and kill it. I honestly don't care about dying since I make enough gold that even if lost an expensive pet it would not impact me much.

I'm anti social so I play solo and tamer/ma works well for solo. Other builds you can try are tamer/mm and tamer/ritualist

let the record show that I made the post in the pets are too strong thread before I read this. haha. thanks for the +1 tho.

@Blade, mymannn. It's different because you can gear up at your guild spots, but they made it so you go red now, so if you are red you can be attacked in town. Like dudes can just jump on you and you can't fight back until they attack you. That's a pretty crazy punishment. Still doesn't mean you can't grief the hell out of people and gear your red w/ an alt.

But you want the pkers imo to be low to mid level skill melee people for near town pvp and then mounteds in the wild. That makes for good gameplay. It's actually fun to group up and go fight people to clear out the GY. I don't care about loot or dying, either. The satisfaction is pushing dudes out. Making dudes who are griefing run and lock themselves in their house. Not to say I am a white knight or that I wouldn't grief certain people myself, but the dynamic of 'bad guy' / 'good guy' is the backbone of MO. They didn't change that, they just adjusted where it could happen, and by doing that, they really alienated a lot of people who would still be playing now and maybe even get drawn into bigger conflict, thus making the world more interesting.

You go out with your bow and tame a bunch of pets and grief that's kinda eeeh. It's whatever, but it's kinda.... ehhh.