Rep still doesn't go far enough.

[Wollkneul]

The basic flaw with the argument, that players can just guard the GY is that it doesn't account for the boredom inequality.

A RPK can decide to do whatever he wants. He can go to the GY or do something else with his time. In any case he can always do what he wants and get fun out of that

A group defending the GY can't do that. They would either have to stay there the whole time, or they would be summoned. In any way, there is no guarantee for them to have fun since RPKs couldn't just show up or already have fled the scene.

The defenders activity is intrinsically more boring.

 

[Darthus]

The basic flaw with the argument, that players can just guard the GY is that it doesn't account for the boredom inequality.

A RPK can decide to do whatever he wants. He can go to the GY or do something else with his time. In any case he can always do what he wants and get fun out of that

A group defending the GY can't do that. They would either have to stay there the whole time, or they would be summoned. In any way, there is no guarantee for them to have fun since RPKs couldn't just show up or already have fled the scene.

The defenders activity is intrinsically more boring.

Exactly, it's also similar to saying, "Well, we don't need to worry to put noisemakers/traps near our chicken coop because if foxes show up to eat our chickens, once we figure out they're there, we can run out with guns and shoot at them to scare them away."

1) The foxes will likely have already have done damage by the time you realize it, you're hear the chickens as they're being attacked perhaps (in our case have killed noobs/enough people to the point where they complain so the point they may just quit).
2) As Wollkneul says, you can either constantly be interrupted from what you're actually doing to inefficiently run out and shoo the foxes (who'll come right back after you;re indoors/asleep), or you can stand outside with your guns, ignoring everything else you could be doing in which case, you become the scarecrow.

It's fine to say, "We'll put traps/noisemakers, and those don't work or they find a way around them, then we'll go out and get rid of them ourselves and add more things to deter them." but just saying "Nah, don't use traps/noisemakers cuz you can just shoo them off yourself every time" is just backward.

To add one more to it, there won't even be global chat in the main game, meaning people will have to actively run around and try to gather people, which both takes longer (more damage) and is way harder.

In any case, I'm not sure why I'm engaging with this argument thoroughly. "No guards just let players handle the policing" has been around since I started in the beta over a year ago and it's so far from SV's vision (and unpopular among the majority of people who play the game) that it's not worth discussing. It's the exact type of gameplay structure that creates an empty MO1 with only hardcore PvPers in it.

 

[Vulpin]

The basic flaw with the argument, that players can just guard the GY is that it doesn't account for the boredom inequality.

A RPK can decide to do whatever he wants. He can go to the GY or do something else with his time. In any case he can always do what he wants and get fun out of that

A group defending the GY can't do that. They would either have to stay there the whole time, or they would be summoned. In any way, there is no guarantee for them to have fun since RPKs couldn't just show up or already have fled the scene.

The defenders activity is intrinsically more boring.

I agree, an I personally also fail to understand the logic were people say "if there X number of players PKing in the GY why doesn't everyone in the town nearby just come out an zerg them". Like ya in ideal world that would work but we clearly don't live in an ideal world. If I'm in town processing ore, getting ready to go out hunting or tame animals, or just sitting in town sparing or chatting with people why should I be expected to stop what I'm doing to form a militia with people I don't know or trust to help people I don't know or trust?

 

[Darthus]

I agree, an I personally also fail to understand the logic were people say "if there X number of players PKing in the GY why doesn't everyone in the town nearby just come out an zerg them". Like ya in ideal world that would work but we clearly don't live in an ideal world. If I'm in town processing ore, getting ready to go out hunting or tame animals, or just sitting in town sparing or chat with people why should I be expected to stop what I'm doing to form a militia with people I don't know or trust to help people I don't know or trust?

That's another great point. As a matter of fact, the incident that precipitated this post was that I was killed by "onher" from the guild BattleBandits. He was sittng outside the graveyard with two members of the guild "VII" and they appeared to be sparring (Onher was grey, the other two were not). I gave them a wide berth, but Onher bum-rushed me with the other who VII behind him. I tried to move toward the graveyard but was out of stam since I was in the process of running to Fab tower (and there were no guards anyway), he kills me without me even pulling out my weapons) then gets on VOIP and goes, "Get wrecked" like it was some glorious victory.

As mentioned in my post, I then see all three of them (onher and his two VII friends) attacking every person who is coming down Fab road in between the city and the GY.

In any case, a day or two ago, I hear pleas on help chat that again rpkers are gathering around Fab GY and can someone please come help. Then I see onher on help saying, "Yes, please, there are a couple of VII people killing at the GY, can't we gather together to take them down? Where should we gather?"

I had to get on there to be like, "Don't listen to him, he's part of it." He was likely trying to get people to gather/follow him, then just tell his buddies where to kill them (or know where they'll be). Also note that behaviorally, this practice of killing people at the Fab graveyard has become their daily gameplay. They will not be "chased away". How much time/interest do they have in doing this as opposed to how much time/interest a new player has to lose by being killed before they give up?

I'm only saying all this to support your point Vulpin that all it takes a few situations like that for people to just fully ignore pleas of "help me at the GY". When it comes to something as high stakes as new people being killed out of the game during their first steps, you can't rely on inefficient player driven response systems which are heavily prone to manipulation. In the meantime while you're figuring crap out, you're hemorrhaging players (and I'm one of the biggest proponents of player driven systems when possible, as is Henrik, it's why I'm here).

 

[nazgo]

Hopefully at release we have more organized (blue) guilds in each town. As long as the guards keep things civilized inside the town walls, guilds should handle the protection of GYs and the areas around their home towns. If we dont have enough blue guilds, then GYs gonna be camped, and thats gonna hurt the population badly. But then again, I dont see guards at GY any better option for the game. GYs should not be the only realistic option for new players after they leave haven. There should be more farming spots around the cities, more easy bandits, more skeletons, more animals. Forcing everyone to into that 1 GY right outside guardzone is like asking people to grief those spots. Also clade xp needs to be used as tool to force people into farming dangerous spots. 200 000 skeletons shouldnt even be an option, as if it is, someone is going to take it.

 

[Staal]

Although sandbox games can be great I think it's bad to fall Into the trap of 'but the players will come up with solutions and make their own fun / content'. Imo. Everyone says it but I've still never seen a successful guard for hire system in a pvp game

The basic flaw with the argument, that players can just guard the GY is that it doesn't account for the boredom inequality.

A RPK can decide to do whatever he wants. He can go to the GY or do something else with his time. In any case he can always do what he wants and get fun out of that

Oh boy, it is amazing how the exact same pattern of discussion is being repeated here from Darkfall / MO1. Shame really, the game looks really good wrt graphics, armour / clothing design, lore, the whole clade thing etc. Some of the above posts get it. The PvP focused players get to play their game 100% of the time. Everyone else has to interrupt what they are doing and they can never make it stop. The end result after the initial exploration phase is you only have PvP focused players (with a high pain threshold for grinding) left in the game. And then everyone wonders why this happens...

I regularly roam on a horse between some cities and in the areas around and there is very little traffic. It seems people just don't go out to trade or gather. Horse tamers are probably the most frequent encounter I have.

Then we spend thousands of pages discussing the exact tinkering of the broken base game that will make it work. No offense meant to you Nefnate.

...

The real issue is that there is no payoff longterm for a non-PvP focused player. And the PvP requires significant time investment (both in skill and materiel) to be good. This combination is what causes the player base to literally cannibalise itself and keeps the world empty except for short periods of exploration after launch / updates / expansions etc. Damn shame.

 

[Tashka]

The end result after the initial exploration phase is you only have PvP focused players (with a high pain threshold for grinding) left in the game. And then everyone wonders why this happens...

It happens to any MMO that doesn't have enough money to pour DLCs with tons of new stuff to explore every 6 months. PvP has nothing to do with it.

Anyway, Morin Khur now has guards AAAAALLLL over the long way to the graveyard. SV should just remove Fabernum as a spawn location option from heaven. It's the most toxic place in the whole game, don't know why newbies keep insisting on spawning there.

 

[Emdash]

ONE:

That doesnt fix the placeholder like rep system that doesnt do anything besides remove town priest ressurection as long as you do your tasks though

We need pvp allowed zones that have some good stuff in them.

I'm gonna repeat incase someone is listening. -1 rep to say... -10-15 rep means you can't res just like 5MC would (random numbers, but just peep da ideaz), 16-50, you are local grey outside of the town, meaning ANYONE CAN ATTACK YOU in that area. Then I dunno if you somehow get below that KoS by guards?? IMO there does not need to be a KoS by guards and having people who farm your town coming to town is actually a plus if you want to GET THEM BACK. Not like people don't have blue alts anyway. I think guards should be there to deter criminal actions IN TOWN and also to prevent people running back into town right after doing criminal stuff. Otherwise... not really feeling the whole 'da guards hate u now', I could see like increased NPC prices, inability to use broker/stable/bank at certain points, NPCs just being like... SMH, but KoS by guards? THERE HE IS KILL HIM!! It seems pretty lame. I really wish that was in the players hands, player bounties would be cool, too. Could give some of your rep to someone else for da kill.

TWO:

The basic flaw with the argument, that players can just guard the GY is that it doesn't account for the boredom inequality.

You basically gotta go to the GY in trash gear. There are diminishing returns. If the 'RPK' as you say are also in trash gear, then yes, grouping up with other bros and learning to play would be a smart idea. On the other hand, there are people dicking around by bank all the time, yucking it up. They say criminals can dip in and out, and that's true, but so can people who live in the town. The GY is close. There is no need to GUARD the gy. People will get killed, but in the end when the killers are expunged, everyone will feel like the dragon is defeated and be happy for awhile. To be honest, as long as the GY isn't getting hard camped, that sort of stuff might slow down progression, but it makes the game more fun for almost everyone. The only way it's not fun is when your bank bros come out and get outplayed, then it's just embarrassing haha. But it happens, too. There is like a fun slider... killers having fun, defenders having fun, new players having fun. There is almost no gain in griefing the graveyard, that's one thing you should point out. And I really think, I think Rulant mentioned being able to tag citizen for a city, then maybe they could make it so that you gain rep for say every 15-20 min you are in the GY, so that all of the bank yuckers might go yuck it up with some nubs in the GY for awhile.

Most players are focused on getting good gains. People who PK in GY are not. It's kind of like terrorism. You can't really defend against someone who is gonna strap a bomb on because it's just wild and goes against so many logical processes. In the same way, GY killers are getting very low gains and doing it just for the tears. Unless they are picking off geared people, then that's different, but then the people who PK'd the geared people have gear and are able to be looted for that gear, if they don't just run away to bank it.

Nobody wants to give these new guys FG/FG armor and a flake/emalji wep when that is NOTHING. If everyone has that level of gear, there is gonna be too much gear for GY groups to loot, they'll prol pick weps, so you can just replenish their wep and send them back out to fight. That's really the smartest option for the health of the game and growth of the pvp scene. People will get outplayed but they need to see that they are doing SOME damage, that it's POSSIBLE to kill. Not being in GY armor with a 1g 1h wep. The fact that people who are making weps can't also make some flake weps and give them or put them on broker for cheap is sadlife. Pay it forward. All you dudes bragging about the money you are rolling in, that little bit of gear means 100x (lol SV trolled me I'm gonna be saying 100x forever now) more to the new players than the cost it takes to hit craft 10 times. Most are willing to do that for the people who join their guild, but not for just joe schmoe. But hey guess what, if you gear the nubs BEFORE accepting them into your guild, you get to see who rises to the top and then recruit them. It's a smart investment

As I've said, no offense to anyone who takes it like this, but in general the MO pop is very single-minded. I've used the word DUMB, but I probably shouldn't say that. They are focused on building their guild, getting gains, recruiting, etc, and if it doesn't fall into that, they don't care. It IS kind of their fault that the GY is getting griefed. Obviously some players are gonna just fail at pvp, but then you can be like hey maybe you should try mining or try to go gather some grain to sell, etc. Pvp is not for everyone. Most people come in with names like SWORDSMANELITE, though, so I mean the least you can do is gear them a few times, give people a chance to learn under conditions that are not auto-loss and see how they fare. There is always gonna be some level of 'survival of the fittest.' Some people aren't meant for MO, but you gotta give them a fighting chance.

Edit: also on a DEEP THOUGHT ECONOMICS level, the players who gain more gold per time invested in GY will come back and buy more expensive things off broker, buy horses, go out and go other things, bring back mats to sell... it creates a loop. I remember the first time someone gave us gear in MO1, my friend (who has long since quit) and I were like awesome! Then we were like A LAKE AHA! And drowned. haha, but I mean... get the fuck off your empire building kick. There is enough time to take a little bit out and help new players. - shrug -

Edit2: I'll also never stop believing (song) that some guilds actually want new players to fail until they tag up.

 

[Tzone]

Oh boy, it is amazing how the exact same pattern of discussion is being repeated here from Darkfall / MO1. Shame really, the game looks really good wrt graphics, armour / clothing design, lore, the whole clade thing etc. Some of the above posts get it. The PvP focused players get to play their game 100% of the time. Everyone else has to interrupt what they are doing and they can never make it stop. The end result after the initial exploration phase is you only have PvP focused players (with a high pain threshold for grinding) left in the game. And then everyone wonders why this happens...



Then we spend thousands of pages discussing the exact tinkering of the broken base game that will make it work. No offense meant to you Nefnate.



The real issue is that there is no payoff longterm for a non-PvP focused player. And the PvP requires significant time investment (both in skill and materiel) to be good. This combination is what causes the player base to literally cannibalise itself and keeps the world empty except for short periods of exploration after launch / updates / expansions etc. Damn shame.

You are greedy and just want to take away one of the only open world PvP games we have. Like we cant go anywhere else to get a PvP game, you instead have so many options available to you if you dont want a open world PvP game.

No one is cannibalizing the game just because some people dont have a strong enough mentality to play a game like this which its a very soft core open world PvP game.

 

[Rolufe]

Here is a document me(member of ID) and Aku(Leader of RPK!) wrote down together.

We did a short podcast on bratwires channel but it only really scratched the surface of this.

I showed this to Henrik and he sad they had planed something similar. So far i havnt seen much move in this direction and release is around the corner.

If you dont feel like reading trough the whole thing.
Here is some of the key points.

-The lawful area only to exist around guards. This balances the pvp between ARPK and RPK. No special perks of being RPKer anymore. Some adjustments to the AI would need to be made in case people are shooting from outside into the guards area of law, so they can hunt them down.

-Groups of guards patrolling between and around towns and small outposts(watch towers). Mounted guards would also be useful specially for the Tindremic Empire and Khurite Empire. This fills out the world and makes it feel like you are in a empire. Limits the ability for people to murder everyone at the gate like Fab, Tindrem and MK. Moves PVP away from newbie griefing and more into proper pvp out in the field.. You could still make it past patrols but you need to really watch out, specially if your a solo RPKer/horse griefer.

-Removal of murdercounts since its a tool to lock people out from their bank locations no matter if they are RPK/ARPK/non-RPK

- 1 murder within the range of a guard puts you directly -100 rep with that faction. Only way to do this is by taking criminal actions off and intentionally murder someone.

Feel free to read the rest in the document it also goes more into factions

Meat on the bones

Summary This is an Idé made by Aku and Rolufe. Designed to fix a number of problems within MO2 using limited resources but with a big effect on a few lingering problems such as griefing, lack of faction presence, mechanics pushing players to go red etc. Faction system Faction system uses existin...

docs.google.com

.

The negatives is just what we found while writing this. If you guys find any more please just contact me or Aku. Thoughts and improvements are also welcome.

Edit: Btw as i wrote this i think i should make it its own thread xD

 

[Emdash]

You are greedy and just want to take away one of the only open world PvP games we have. Like we cant go anywhere else to get a PvP game, you instead have so many options available to you if you dont want a open world PvP game.

No one is cannibalizing the game just because some people dont have a strong enough mentality to play a game like this which its a very soft core open world PvP game.

It would take v few changes to make it not softcore. Nobody is gonna say hardcore just cuz, but they could easily open it up a bit and have it be like it used to but without as much JUST GRIEFING. Rep system just needs a lot of tweaking.

People operate on the assumption that PKing is random, where as in most cases it's not. OR if it is random, the PK people are going back to kill the non random targets (for loot, for revenge etc) when they become available.

That they have kinda gut the crafting systems, if they gut the pvp, we're gonna get a first person I dunno what game. Even after all that shit I just posted, I want to write here for everyone to see and you can come back and look at it on J25.

( I wish I knew how to make letters bigger )

YOU THINK THE REP SYSTEM IS GOING TO PROTECT YOU, BUT YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT IT WON'T. YOU WILL PROBABLY EVEN FIND OUT THAT IT WILL NEGATIVELY AFFECT YOU IN THE END, even more so than the wack flag system. I hate to say I told ya so, everyone, but IF people can PK, they will, penalties only affect people who don't have a set up. Pvpers been doing this, it's a science to them. You are the one who is gonna get farmed by someone's red alt and shake your fist at their blue because you can't do anything back.

Pvp is fun, even if you lose. If you are mad about losing gear, wear shit gear. haha. As long as you can hit someone for some dmg, you matter. I was hitting a dude in fullsteel for 16s with my lean veela and a flake sword, not even full charge I don't think. DO THE MATH. Learn to enjoy the game, and if you wanna just live your life w/o pvp, then learn to survive and learn to overcome. I did. In MO1 I don't think I ever 'true murdered' someone. But I did have some fun things to /y while I was skating away haha. "NO STOP LEAVE ME ALONE IM SCARED." As you kick it into 3rd gear and dust them.

Edit: I'll read that doc later blee, but LOCAL GREY, kids. I'm telling you. Add in local greys who would not be affected by that, and maybe I could get down w/ it. If someone was flagging pure non combat, but if you are someone who has pvp'd before, I don't believe you should be able to ever be able to 'be murdered.' It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Emdash]

Double post! Please permit me this once!

I am going to leave after so, ahem ahem.

I think if you wanna flag blue like innocent and not engage in pvp, you should be able to massively damage someone if they get caught killing you. However, you should not be able to push players, you should not be able to loot players, you should only be able to loot mobs and fight mobs. You should not even be able to be HIT by players to prevent blue blocking. In order to kill you, they should have to basically target you and it should be like "WARNING: you are choosing to murder an innocent, are you sure?!" And then say YES and do it. In that case yea... do that, and let people who are new do that, but once you flag grey, you should be open pvp FOR THE REST OF THE CHARS LIFE. Guards prevent pvp in towns or running from pvp into towns (with a cooldown.) People talk about non-consensual pvp, but a lot of time it's non consensual because people are at a disadvantage lol, so of course it's non consensual. True non consensual pvp is when you have FLOWERCHAN on her newly created crafter character running around and enjoying the world, who has never done anything wrong to anyone, and you decide to harvest her tears because you want to. Beyond that, the flag and rep system fails because it is timed and/or number based, where as in life, when you violate someone, you have violated them. There is no statute of limitations, it's hard to imagine a changing flag system that doesn't encourage hiding or exploiting.

One you step into the arena, you should have to stay there. And if you are someone who stays under the protection of that innocent flag, then you need to be able to wear that and stand people calling you out for it.

that's my 2c on how pvp should work in a sandbox. I know I'd be flagging grey, fuck em. I might spec my char first... - shrugs - But if Henrik wants to talk about severe consequences for killing innocents, I believe FLOWERCHAN and even the most hardcore pvper, if they are on their never pvp'd crafter alt, should be declared innocent. It's kinda metagaming to go after people's alts, anyway. So yea flag up or shut up, play pve. It's the only way to truly remove BS.

Edit: and yes killing innocents in war should be the same thing, there are WAR CRIMES you know. Doesn't mean you can't do it, just that there should be some consequence.

 

[Tashka]

A fair compromise: put guards (notmal ones, not elite or lictors) into graveyards but let detested into certain parts of major towns

Here is a document me(member of ID) and Aku(Leader of RPK!) wrote down together.

We did a short podcast on bratwires channel but it only really scratched the surface of this.

I showed this to Henrik and he sad they had planed something similar. So far i havnt seen much move in this direction and release is around the corner.

If you dont feel like reading trough the whole thing.
Here is some of the key points.

-The lawful area only to exist around guards. This balances the pvp between ARPK and RPK. No special perks of being RPKer anymore. Some adjustments to the AI would need to be made in case people are shooting from outside into the guards area of law, so they can hunt them down.

-Groups of guards patrolling between and around towns and small outposts(watch towers). Mounted guards would also be useful specially for the Tindremic Empire and Khurite Empire. This fills out the world and makes it feel like you are in a empire. Limits the ability for people to murder everyone at the gate like Fab, Tindrem and MK. Moves PVP away from newbie griefing and more into proper pvp out in the field.. You could still make it past patrols but you need to really watch out, specially if your a solo RPKer/horse griefer.

-Removal of murdercounts since its a tool to lock people out from their bank locations no matter if they are RPK/ARPK/non-RPK

- 1 murder within the range of a guard puts you directly -100 rep with that faction. Only way to do this is by taking criminal actions off and intentionally murder someone.

Feel free to read the rest in the document it also goes more into factions

Meat on the bones

Summary This is an Idé made by Aku and Rolufe. Designed to fix a number of problems within MO2 using limited resources but with a big effect on a few lingering problems such as griefing, lack of faction presence, mechanics pushing players to go red etc. Faction system Faction system uses existin...

docs.google.com

.

The negatives is just what we found while writing this. If you guys find any more please just contact me or Aku. Thoughts and improvements are also welcome.

Edit: Btw as i wrote this i think i should make it its own thread xD

I'm sorry but this is actually worse than the current system.

 

[Rolufe]

A fair compromise: put guards (notmal ones, not elite or lictors) into graveyards but let detested into certain parts of major towns

I'm sorry but this is actually worse than the current system.

Please elaborate. It might be something we missed or overlooked.

 

[Staal]

It happens to any MMO that doesn't have enough money to pour DLCs with tons of new stuff to explore every 6 months. PvP has nothing to do with it.

Now you are comparing themeparks to what MO is supposed to be, a sandbox. A sandbox should not need DLC because the base systems are emergent. But no one has yet managed to do that because they do not design an end state for non-PvP play, only PvP play. So for all attempted sandboxes PvP has everything to do with it.

 

[Staal]

You are greedy and just want to take away one of the only open world PvP games we have. Like we cant go anywhere else to get a PvP game, you instead have so many options available to you if you dont want a open world PvP game.

No one is cannibalizing the game just because some people dont have a strong enough mentality to play a game like this which its a very soft core open world PvP game.

I would love an actual PvP sandbox. A game that has more to do than grind to PvP. Where PvP has context and is not simply lawless banditry. The primary problem with DF/MO1/MO2 (or I assume will be) is that PvPers from different factions are not fighting each other. That is a game design problem.

Starvault clearly has not understood yet if you want to make a PvP-only game, great, but then they need to make competitive PvP accessible to most players quickly. But they don't. It is a chore to get to the fun part. The harvesting, crafting etc is literally a roadblock between a new player and the fun part of the game.

The cannibalism happens whether you admit it happens or not. Non-PvP players quit because they have no competitive end game to take part in and PvPers cannibalise themselves because people get tired of the grind. This is not the 80s. There are too many other options that drain away all but the most pain-tolerant of players. Which means you have less action! I am not trying to "take away one of the only open world PvP games". I want there to be more. But they are all designed badly.

What you need is for PvP-focused groups to control territory. But within that territory other players can live and unless you attract and protect those players (i.e. those not in your little clique) you won't be competitive. The game design must encourage PvP effective groups to nurture towns of non-PvPers. You would essentially be the "lord" of that area and people pay you tribute / tax whatever. Those non-PvPers must then have their own competitive end game state that has real influence. Finally, PvP should predominantly happen between the PvPers of the various groups trying to control territory. That would be a game. Random banditry is not a game if you are trying to pretend to be a sandbox.

 

[Tashka]

Please elaborate. It might be something we missed or overlooked.

- everyone local grey with no consequences for murder means wilderness is a deathmatch, much like albion black zones
- make one mistake and you're locked out of town for good
- no forced wardecs, we get artificial FvF that has no place in sandbox games like this one. I never had problems with guilds in Tindrem, my enemies are right here in Morin Khur.
- still doesn't solve the problem of the system being easily gamed by having an alt account

 

[ArcaneConsular]

- everyone local grey with no consequences for murder means wilderness is a deathmatch, much like albion black zones
- make one mistake and you're locked out of town for good
- no forced wardecs, we get artificial FvF that has no place in sandbox games like this one. I never had problems with guilds in Tindrem, my enemies are right here in Morin Khur.
- still doesn't solve the problem of the system being easily gamed by having an alt account

Im not a giant fan of AO but I do think a lot of pvp games should learn from it. Black zones would be nice, no penalty for killing players out in wild, uncivilized areas, far from towns. Even something like hell gates would be a ton of fun.

 

[Tashka]

Im not a giant fan of AO but I do think a lot of pvp games should learn from it. Black zones would be nice, no penalty for killing players out in wild, uncivilized areas, far from towns. Even something like hell gates would be a ton of fun.

I very much prefer Ultima Online system where you can actually have friendly conversation with someone in the wild and it's not immediately fight or flight whenever you see another player. I'm planning to ignore the whole reputation BS on release and i would much prefer stat loss but with a way to sneak into towns. Cheating with blue alts or being locked out of towns doesn't sit well with me.

I mean, i personally don't want MO2 to be a peeeveeepeee game in the worst sense of the word. I want fantasy world simulator with PvP players, PKs, roleplayers, casuals and all that all in a single world. Like, i've never seen a single roleplayer in albion. It sucks.

 

[Rolufe]

- everyone local grey with no consequences for murder means wilderness is a deathmatch, much like albion black zones

Yes this way you are not gonna get banned from the city you live in cuz you killed a your enemies or random RPKers.

- make one mistake and you're locked out of town for good

You cant make a mistake with criminal actions off. This is the intention that you cant go "red" without intending to do so. Keeping players from being pushed into the RPK play style.

- no forced wardecs, we get artificial FvF that has no place in sandbox games like this one. I never had problems with guilds in Tindrem, my enemies are right here in Morin Khur.

Fighting in town? Dont think any law enforcement would allow that. Very bad for business.

Faction v Faction is already announced for MO2 just wasnt cleared up how it would work.

- still doesn't solve the problem of the system being easily gamed by having an alt account

You can still do it and no way to change that either way,but this would limit the reasons for it.