Removing spinning cause 1 month streamers cant read attacks

[Albanjo Dravae]

Its crazy how you guys want spinning (a solution to extremely barebones combat) to stay in this game rather than SV to find a way to make combat feel better overall.

Its cool that it takes skill and all to jump and spin like a ballerina. Its cool you practiced that in duels for hundreds of hours. Doesnt change the fact its absolutely fucking retarded and feels terrible to do. You are in the minority of people who have played this game if you think otherwise.

Having said that, I'm very curious on how they intent to replace it so that fights don't last forever. There are many many ways to achieve that though. If only we had a proper combat alpha....oh wait.

We didn't have to spin in MO1 and that was mainly due to abusing prediction. Id take that any day over what we have now.

While that Is true, It's kind of a gamble SV wont be making something dumb about this.

I think the best way they could approach this Is by making a public test sv for combat to test and feedback, for as long as required, definitely not dropping a placeholder bomb when they think It's nice.

 

[Stouty]

Is there a solution to “broken animations”? As of a year ago seemingly mordhau had plenty. Does not every melee game exist in a state of weird and shitty animations? Turn cap and parry lockout not withstanding?

Mordhau doesn't suffer from spinning issues, rather its primary flaw is dragging (which I've also crusaded against, if you're interested:

)

As for solutions, I'm working on an upcoming melee game with the ambition to fix all these issues

You would have to parry on swing release instead of the windup, goodluck doing that with 200+ ping.

Good luck doing anything on 200 ping. I've not tried it myself in this game but I doubt it's responsive. As for Chivhau on ping, I came 3rd in a NA duel tourney with ~140 ping. MO2 allows for far more mistakes than Chivhau as well, so good players would manage

 

[Teknique]

Mordhau doesn't suffer from spinning issues, rather its primary flaw is dragging (which I've also crusaded against, if you're interested:

)

As for solutions, I'm working on an upcoming melee game with the ambition to fix all these issues




Good luck doing anything on 200 ping. I've not tried it myself in this game but I doubt it's responsive. As for Chivhau on ping, I came 3rd in a NA duel tourney with ~140 ping. MO2 allows for far more mistakes than Chivhau as well, so good players would manage

I find it a bit strange that you think chiv like and mordhau like are so much better but then in your own words say it basically comes down to guessing the parry time.
The fact that you’re working on a game that should be better illustrates that it’s hardly settled science. This only cements in my belief that melee games will always have “janky” animations as that is simply their nature. Remove spinning you get dragging remove dragging you’ll get feint spamming remove feint spamming and I promise you we’ll get something else. The only way really is to for honor it and lock in your opponent but this game isn’t that and shouldn’t strive to be. Not to mention this game has classes. Why am I dealing with a decelerated mouse now as a mage? I know there are solutions to this but these devs won’t think twice about fucking up my gameplay for the benefit of someone else.

Other classes and group fighting below

random aside chiv 1 was clearly the best out of all the chiv and mordhau games. You can even see it in your video that first person looks fuckn amazing. Who cares what it looks like in the third person. Reverse swings look sick.

 

[Dracu]

why can't we just try slowly increasing the dmg you take while parrying until the game runs right??? There's nothing weird about the turning when it's used in real battles, a spin should get you hit on the inside, but you can just be ready to parry or you can't charge a swing that fast. If you had like a 10 dmg poke that you could click swing, it would be the same lol. Move back, poke. No spinning.

But yesss, the whole trace element of MO is the best part. The ping is an issue, but I'd take the L if SOMEBODY could get good combat. I mean, shouldn't they start with good combat THEN make it accessible? I would argue this isn't even accessible, just very rote. Prol 9/10 people who have practiced 'doing what pvpers do in MO2,' could body me 1v1 and I've done a decent amount of fighting.

And like cerq said, at high level it's not really hiding anything so it's just a joke. It's something basically that allows vets to body nubs. Which is cool, but! I'll admit to being a nub at MO2 combat, and I'm not learning it. haha. I'll still fight, but I'm not doing that stuff.

Chip dmg through parrys = bad for 1vX
Combat needs adjustments to help with 1vX not 1v1 1v1 balance is what got us into the current state to begin with.
There is no 1 change that fixes combat, it needs to be multiple adjustments on different fronts.
Like i mentioned earlier, there needs to be ways to reliably negate dmg without parrying for agressive playstyle.
There needs to be a reliable window to deal dmg that is not a counter and not spamming.

 

[LurkinMurkin]

Moderators will ban you for discussing spinning. Join the Unofficial Discord today, where there is no Starvault censorship:
https://discord.gg/EYKuGKGwjd

 

[For Sure]

Every idea spit around is yeah dawg, lets make it more ping based in one server lol

 

[cerqo]

You don't need to be the top player of a game to make quality suggestions to improve said game - however if you insist, I was rank 1 in Mordhau for ~2 years straight, the biggest first person melee game to date (i.e. the most contested and competitive) therefore you should instantly concede to every suggestion I make concerning game design within the first person melee genre.

You go on to say that combat being jank is subjective when in reality we know what melee combat should look like, so it's an objective issue. When confronted with this fact you decided to scream about realism not being fun - when clearly spinning (often with macros it would seem) is already proven to be player-count poison, to both this game, Mount & Blade's pvp (also dead) and Chivalry 1. As the combat becomes more grounded, the genre grows, as seen with Mordhau at one point being a top 10 Steam game.

As for the solution, like I said in the video, Chivalry 1 figured out the key ingredient a decade ago: parry lockouts, making simple feints effective. All the values would of course require re-working but this one change would shift spinning from a necessity to a sweaty trick. Turn caps or glancing blows could also be incorporated to eliminate spins entirely if needed.

This post is filled with some funny delusional shit.

The funniest shit ive seen is someone trying to argue that "you dont have to be good to make good suggestions to core game mechanics", then you go "BUT IF YOU INSIST". One would expect you to follow up with something that is relevant to the game we are talking about here, but no you bring up some random shit dead game with a different combat system that is SERVER BASED HAHAHAH.

I guess the irony is hard to see for some here, you know, where I initially was talking about players that come to this game with some weird delusion that they should instantly be good at it because they were good at some VAGUELY similar game, then they realize they are terrible and try to crusade for absolute utter trash changes to turn the game into a clone of the game they are good at.

And in regards to the point that "you don't need to be good or understand the game to suggest good changes", ok? Sure, I can have 10 minutes in the game and tell that having my pet randomly disappear into the void is bad, but sadly core combat mechanics don't really fall into that category of game changes. Damn, I guess I'm just crazy not wanting SV to listen to kids that can't figure out how to do directional attacks or random feints, or manage to turn their camera 360 degrees. Get rid of handlehits because they can't aim? That one in itself gives a great summary of the type of feedback we are getting here. Haha, i almost forgot the best one, CHARGING ATTACKS HAHAHA that's a super hard concept to wrap your head around.

A collection of pretty shit arguments here TBH. Mordhau was a top 10 steam game at a point? Ok lmao, so was ATLAS, you know kind of like any new game. Hmm lets take a quick look.... yup Mordhau has never had more players than it did on launch and has been on a steady decline with some spikes.

I won't go into the realism argument which I already pointed out (as you have commented on) was shit.

You mention that spinning is "player-count poison", which is pretty fucking laughable to actually think that spinning is the reason this game is dead. Great argument again buddy. I guess you would know this kind of stuff if you actually played the game.

And then to finish off, your solution to spinning is Mordhau feint spamming? Hell yeah, you know what you are completely right, keep at it buddy, hopefully SV listens to you and finally fixes this trash combat and we can finally get a lively game with a MASSIVE population.

 

[Emdash]

Chip dmg through parrys = bad for 1vX
Combat needs adjustments to help with 1vX not 1v1 1v1 balance is what got us into the current state to begin with.
There is no 1 change that fixes combat, it needs to be multiple adjustments on different fronts.
Like i mentioned earlier, there needs to be ways to reliably negate dmg without parrying for agressive playstyle.
There needs to be a reliable window to deal dmg that is not a counter and not spamming.

I know you're a smart dude, you seem reasonable, and I know you have massively more experience in MO pvp than I do from 1--->

However (lines like that always need a however haha,) I disagree. The chip dmg has to be right is all. It's the easiest fix on all fronts. There are still advantages for skill, numbers, etc.

I also disagree, honestly, that 1v1 balance was what they were balancing. I feel like they felt 1vx was anti-zerg when it's not. The one time this game shines, I think I said on a vid, is 1vx. That's the one time it looks real. It's cool that dudes can 1vx, but not everyone will do it as easily. Dmg doesn't mess w/ ping or anything. You get hit, you get hit. The obnoxiously long parries can stay. There is already chip dmg on some weps, so I'd say if chip dmg was the winning formula it would be being used more.

Just need to get people out of the mindstate that tanking a hit is a smart move. SURE, in a fight, it makes sense to block someone. There is a kind of imaginary thing you can do, relative to your character, as you 'swing manipulate' to make it seem like you are moving your torso almost. If there were better torso animations, honestly, MO combat would look real even w/ wild swings. The imaginary thing with block doesn't work as well because it's a total 0. Some stam lost for both sides. Dura lost. I would break weps troll dueling with people cuz they would keep parrying but they weren't able to hit me so well, so the only thing I was doing was smashing my wep on them.

Suppressing the majority of damage because you parried, and I know you know if you parry 'into' something the transition is insanely fast (not fast enough to get a hit on someone who knows how to parry tho lol,) makes the game stale. You should be able to overwhelm people with attacks. That should be a play style if you play it right. I don't think it is now.

Getting hit for 5s n 8s thru parries or whatever it would start at, I dunno. I really think if it was implemented and people saw it in action, they would like the result. Sure you might get zerged down 1vx, but if you can also do Hayasa and just keep leading people and killing them haha.

But yes, it is my belief that MO2 was designed around a philosophy that the vets (esp euro vets) should be able to dunk people 1vx and everything. haha. Sounds biased, but oh well. When, to me, I do appreciate that there is skill involved in the game. However, I don't think it needs to be that scientific or skill based, beyond what it already is minus OP defense.

What did you think about the swing speed update (and revert?)

 

[Stouty]

random aside chiv 1 was clearly the best out of all the chiv and mordhau games. You can even see it in your video that first person looks fuckn amazing. Who cares what it looks like in the third person. Reverse swings look sick.

Chiv 1 backswings were definitely cool but they were used primarily to hit targets behind your character rather than to conceal feints but at the same time they are a hard sell to casual players (something that Cerqo didn't grasp in my other post)

You mention that spinning is "player-count poison", which is pretty fucking laughable to actually think that spinning is the reason this game is dead. Great argument again buddy. I guess you would know this kind of stuff if you actually played the game.

We have MULTIPLE game examples that spinning is deeply unpopular in melee games. This Cerqo guy is a complete lifer, thinks everything is always about MO (also thinks that feint spamming isn't the meta in MO? except it's far, far jankier than Mordhau - what a garbage post. Even the MO devs concede that MO combat is inferior to Chivhau)

The fact that you’re working on a game that should be better illustrates that it’s hardly settled science. This only cements in my belief that melee games will always have “janky” animations as that is simply their nature. Remove spinning you get dragging remove dragging you’ll get feint spamming remove feint spamming and I promise you we’ll get something else.

Whilst it is easy to walk away from the genre with your hands up (as the Mordhau devs did, hence why it tanked in player count) there's enough evidence to show that following certain trails leads to better looking combat, hence why Mordhau looks better than Chiv, which looks better than Warband (and MO)

Why am I dealing with a decelerated mouse now as a mage?

Turn caps would only be for melee swings

 

[Hodo]

I dont see why everyone is crying about turn caps on melee. Sorry but nothing about the spinning garbage is good. And anyone who thinks it is good is compensating for poor skill with piss poor mechanic abuse.

Anyone who has ever been in a real fight knows that power is generated from your core. Your core cant generate power if you dont have a good foundation, that foundation comes from the ground. Spinning with your feet all sorts of out of place means you are off balance, being off balance means you are not in control, out of control means you are not generating power correctly. Thus you are not effective.

Not only this but you are breaking the cardinal rule of fighting, taking your eyes off your opponent. I dont know how many times I have had some new kid try some "cool" spin attack on me and I step inside their spin and watch them hyperextend their elbow sending their sword flying and them in pain, all without me even swinging my weapon.

I hate spinning in games it just stupid. It looks cool in the movies but again is stupid. I prefer fights that are grounded in reality not in arcade cartoon physics.

 

[Dracu]

I know you're a smart dude, you seem reasonable, and I know you have massively more experience in MO pvp than I do from 1--->

However (lines like that always need a however haha,) I disagree. The chip dmg has to be right is all. It's the easiest fix on all fronts. There are still advantages for skill, numbers, etc.

I also disagree, honestly, that 1v1 balance was what they were balancing. I feel like they felt 1vx was anti-zerg when it's not. The one time this game shines, I think I said on a vid, is 1vx. That's the one time it looks real. It's cool that dudes can 1vx, but not everyone will do it as easily. Dmg doesn't mess w/ ping or anything. You get hit, you get hit. The obnoxiously long parries can stay. There is already chip dmg on some weps, so I'd say if chip dmg was the winning formula it would be being used more.

Just need to get people out of the mindstate that tanking a hit is a smart move. SURE, in a fight, it makes sense to block someone. There is a kind of imaginary thing you can do, relative to your character, as you 'swing manipulate' to make it seem like you are moving your torso almost. If there were better torso animations, honestly, MO combat would look real even w/ wild swings. The imaginary thing with block doesn't work as well because it's a total 0. Some stam lost for both sides. Dura lost. I would break weps troll dueling with people cuz they would keep parrying but they weren't able to hit me so well, so the only thing I was doing was smashing my wep on them.

Suppressing the majority of damage because you parried, and I know you know if you parry 'into' something the transition is insanely fast (not fast enough to get a hit on someone who knows how to parry tho lol,) makes the game stale. You should be able to overwhelm people with attacks. That should be a play style if you play it right. I don't think it is now.

Getting hit for 5s n 8s thru parries or whatever it would start at, I dunno. I really think if it was implemented and people saw it in action, they would like the result. Sure you might get zerged down 1vx, but if you can also do Hayasa and just keep leading people and killing them haha.

But yes, it is my belief that MO2 was designed around a philosophy that the vets (esp euro vets) should be able to dunk people 1vx and everything. haha. Sounds biased, but oh well. When, to me, I do appreciate that there is skill involved in the game. However, I don't think it needs to be that scientific or skill based, beyond what it already is minus OP defense.

What did you think about the swing speed update (and revert?)

No worries about the bias, we are all biased in our opinions what we think would help the combat to be good. We all play different playstyles ontop of it. And hence who doesnt like their playstyle to be viable, especially when its one thats currently just not good

It doesnt matter which one feature we all suggest, imo combat needs to be completly revamped. There is no one bandaid that can make this system work. Maybe chip dmg is part of that rework.

I believe a naked US player with a worn shordsword should be able to beat 2 EU oghmium armored fighters with oghmium weapons without taking dmg... it should be hard, but realisticly possible. A combat system that doesnt allow this is imo shit, the current system doesnt allow it realisticly... so its shit, back to the drawing board. Chipdmg wont make this possible thats why iam against it as a single change to the current system. But if there are other systems that let the wornshortsword guy to negate dmg completly you know as a part of a rework... hence why not, might work.

 

[cerqo]

Chiv 1 backswings were definitely cool but they were used primarily to hit targets behind your character rather than to conceal feints but at the same time they are a hard sell to casual players (something that Cerqo didn't grasp in my other post)



We have MULTIPLE game examples that spinning is deeply unpopular in melee games. This Cerqo guy is a complete lifer, thinks everything is always about MO (also thinks that feint spamming isn't the meta in MO? except it's far, far jankier than Mordhau - what a garbage post. Even the MO devs concede that MO combat is inferior to Chivhau)



Whilst it is easy to walk away from the genre with your hands up (as the Mordhau devs did, hence why it tanked in player count) there's enough evidence to show that following certain trails leads to better looking combat, hence why Mordhau looks better than Chiv, which looks better than Warband (and MO)



Turn caps would only be for melee swings

Good one buddy, you sure showed me, great counter arguments. How would you know what the meta is in MO? You have played like 100 hours and can barely figure out how to feint, charge a swing or spin your camera around.

Hahaha, I think you should stop tossing the "lifer" thing around considering video games are literally your life where you probably make minimum wage making videos or whatever you do. I on the other hand play video games as a hobby when I have time to have fun.

Hey, as I already said, keep at it buddy! Hopefully, SV finally changes the game to be more like Mordhau so you aren't a walking lootbag anymore and you can stop crying.

Maybe people would take you seriously if you weren't so comically biased towards some ultra shit dead game combat system (Mordhau), clearly trying to change any "melee" game that even slightly resembles it into a clone of it .

 

[Dracu]

i have an idea Chip dmg BUT you can "parry" two sides
If you adjust your parry, you get chip dmg but are able to parry two directions/ppl at the same time sort of.
It helps with 1vX
It helps with 1v1 as it now makes feints more usefull
Exact timings need to be fine tuned in correlation to ping ofcourse but thats for SV to figure out.
Ofcourse need to make sure the dmg has a bit of a baseline so its not stupid high, better gear should not remove the dmg afterall.
Gets triggered by changing your parry direction before 1-2 seconds?
It one still gets hit after correcting its extra stamina dmg.
nearly Blocked dmg but still get counter.

Just as an idea, no idea if it would be fun though. something that would prolly have to be tested

 

[Stouty]

Good one buddy, you sure showed me, great counter arguments. How would you know what the meta is in MO? You have played like 100 hours and can barely figure out how to feint, charge a swing or spin your camera around.

Hahaha, I think you should stop tossing the "lifer" thing around considering video games are literally your life where you probably make minimum wage making videos or whatever you do. I on the other hand play video games as a hobby when I have time to have fun.

Hey, as I already said, keep at it buddy! Hopefully, SV finally changes the game to be more like Mordhau so you aren't a walking lootbag anymore and you can stop crying.

Maybe people would take you seriously if you weren't so comically biased towards some ultra shit dead game combat system (Mordhau), clearly trying to change any "melee" game that even slightly resembles it into a clone of it .

I never said I was good at MO. Yet I still apparently know more about the meta than you: the primary method to score a hit is feint spam + spinning. The fact you failed to respond to this point completely invalidates your entire whining. Turns out the 1 month streamer does know more than the lifer!

I get paid to play video games - you play games you hate for free and then whine when relevant people give you the time of day.

>dead game combat system (Mordhau)
Despite massive mismanagement, it STILL surpasses MO2. Pot/kettle much?

>comically biased towards [Mordhau]
If you only knew how ridiculous that statement is you wouldn't have said it

 

[Wyndorn]

What if there is no turn cap, but turning drained stam really fast. i.e. add another dimension of skill to it? Just a random thought.

 

[cerqo]

I never said I was good at MO. Yet I still apparently know more about the meta than you: the primary method to score a hit is feint spam + spinning. The fact you failed to respond to this point completely invalidates your entire whining. Turns out the 1 month streamer does know more than the lifer!

I get paid to play video games - you play games you hate for free and then whine when relevant people give you the time of day.

>dead game combat system (Mordhau)
Despite massive mismanagement, it STILL surpasses MO2. Pot/kettle much?

>comically biased towards [Mordhau]
If you only knew how ridiculous that statement is you wouldn't have said it

I am not sure what kind of weird point you are trying to forward here. Clearly, you do not know more about the meta than me and I hope to god you don't actually think you do cause then you would be dumber than I first suspected.

What exactly did I ignore? Maybe point it out next time cause I don't see you talking about feint spam and spinning being the "only way to get hits in" in your last post that I replied to. I honestly can't tell if you are trolling anymore lmao.

There's more to getting regular hits in (which I assume you are talking about cause it's not super hard to get counter attacks in) than most shit new players realize, which is part of the reason SV shouldn't listen to clueless kids cause you to know, they don't really know what they are talking about right?

Yes your job is to get paid minimum wage playing shit games, and you proceed to call people that play video games as a hobby for fun "lifers", kind of funny isn't it considering that games are literally your life? I also don't hate MO2, otherwise, I wouldn't be playing it, I actually enjoy the game even if I don't agree with a lot of the changes SV does. It is also very funny you think you are relevant in any way in this game, please do explain how that is the case other than being some 70-viewer streamer celebrity from some shit game with a vaguely similar combat system?

It seems you have some weird misconception that im some diehard MO2 fanboy. I just play the game from time to time, so what exactly is your point with this "pot/kettle" statement? Both games are equally as dead, and I was pointing out the fact Mordhau is a dead shit game with very vague similarities to MO2. Why exactly should MO2 combat be changed to be similar to Mordhau combat apart from making it so you can compete? I mean the fact you fail to comprehend something as simple as Mordhau being a server based game and MO2 being an MMO, which would make most Mordhau combat mechanics impossible in this game says a lot.

-----------------------------------------

Now to give some input on the other people in this thread that have come with more civil and logical arguments. Theres obviously several ways SV could "remove" spinning. A lot of them would probably make the game feel clunky and unresponsive. There needs to be AT LEAST an equivalent skill mechanic in the game before that is even attempted IMO. The sad thing is, it is very hard to argue for any mechanic to be added that would be of equivalent skill ceiling as spinning and reading spin animations. Regular feints are too low skill ceiling, so what can SV realistically add that will fill the gap.

 

[Tzone]

I dont see why everyone is crying about turn caps on melee. Sorry but nothing about the spinning garbage is good. And anyone who thinks it is good is compensating for poor skill with piss poor mechanic abuse.

Anyone who has ever been in a real fight knows that power is generated from your core. Your core cant generate power if you dont have a good foundation, that foundation comes from the ground. Spinning with your feet all sorts of out of place means you are off balance, being off balance means you are not in control, out of control means you are not generating power correctly. Thus you are not effective.

Not only this but you are breaking the cardinal rule of fighting, taking your eyes off your opponent. I dont know how many times I have had some new kid try some "cool" spin attack on me and I step inside their spin and watch them hyperextend their elbow sending their sword flying and them in pain, all without me even swinging my weapon.

I hate spinning in games it just stupid. It looks cool in the movies but again is stupid. I prefer fights that are grounded in reality not in arcade cartoon physics.

you dont see why because you are very very bad at the game and have almost no understanding of it.

You tend to just talk nonsense like how you lied about mounted mage cast times.

 

[Stouty]

I am not sure what kind of weird point you are trying to forward here. Clearly, you do not know more about the meta than me and I hope to god you don't actually think you do cause then you would be dumber than I first suspected.

What exactly did I ignore? Maybe point it out next time cause I don't see you talking about feint spam and spinning being the "only way to get hits in" in your last post that I replied to. I honestly can't tell if you are trolling anymore lmao.

There's more to getting regular hits in (which I assume you are talking about cause it's not super hard to get counter attacks in) than most shit new players realize, which is part of the reason SV shouldn't listen to clueless kids cause you to know, they don't really know what they are talking about right?

Yes your job is to get paid minimum wage playing shit games, and you proceed to call people that play video games as a hobby for fun "lifers", kind of funny isn't it considering that games are literally your life? I also don't hate MO2, otherwise, I wouldn't be playing it, I actually enjoy the game even if I don't agree with a lot of the changes SV does. It is also very funny you think you are relevant in any way in this game, please do explain how that is the case other than being some 70-viewer streamer celebrity from some shit game with a vaguely similar combat system?

It seems you have some weird misconception that im some diehard MO2 fanboy. I just play the game from time to time, so what exactly is your point with this "pot/kettle" statement? Both games are equally as dead, and I was pointing out the fact Mordhau is a dead shit game with very vague similarities to MO2. Why exactly should MO2 combat be changed to be similar to Mordhau combat apart from making it so you can compete? I mean the fact you fail to comprehend something as simple as Mordhau being a server based game and MO2 being an MMO, which would make most Mordhau combat mechanics impossible in this game says a lot.

-----------------------------------------

Now to give some input on the other people in this thread that have come with more civil and logical arguments. Theres obviously several ways SV could "remove" spinning. A lot of them would probably make the game feel clunky and unresponsive. There needs to be AT LEAST an equivalent skill mechanic in the game before that is even attempted IMO. The sad thing is, it is very hard to argue for any mechanic to be added that would be of equivalent skill ceiling as spinning and reading spin animations. Regular feints are too low skill ceiling, so what can SV realistically add that will fill the gap.

Let's ignore your blatant projection about life circumstances considering you're literally on a MO forum whining because a youtuber gave constructive feedback that threatens your 3k hour spin training (the fact that you are crying about it makes me relevant btw - that's how relevancy works, I know it's something you're unfamiliar with)

Instead, let's really hone in on the fact you think MO2 doesn't revolve around feint spamming. Are you actually delusional?

 

[cerqo]

Let's ignore your blatant projection about life circumstances considering you're literally on a MO forum whining because a youtuber gave constructive feedback that threatens your 3k hour spin training (the fact that you are crying about it makes me relevant btw - that's how relevancy works, I know it's something you're unfamiliar with)

Instead, let's really hone in on the fact you think MO2 doesn't revolve around feint spamming. Are you actually delusional?

I don't think you really understand what projection means. I don't play video games for a living making pennies, so how exactly is that a projection?

You don't need to "train" spinning, you literally just turn your camera around (I know its a hard concept for you to grasp).

Hey its ok buddy, your game died, you decided to try mortal and are a completely irrelevant walking lootbag, so you want to change the game to be able to compete.

It seems you have a VERY hard time coping with being a complete nonfactor in this game?

I dont think YOU understand how relevancy works. Me replying to you doesnt make you relevant. Does me saying a few words to some hobo on the streets when hes ranting about politics make him relevant in politics?

 

[Tzone]

cerqo vs stouty match when?