has to be, gonna go back thru and read Thirdeye's post, tho, gotta give credit for length.
PvE Server
- Thread starter Joe McFly
- Start date
has to be, gonna go back thru and read Thirdeye's post, tho, gotta give credit for length.
I didn't read your whole second post, but I do want to reply to this. As I think I have said on Steam or somewhere (once you say so many things so many times, you forget what you've already said haha, but I'm 100% sure I said it recently,) all judgment that starts from "MO1 was a failed game" will lead to an inherently flawed conclusion. The pop thing is true. It was a money sink. It had a lot of flaws, but no.. MO2 is not MO1 dressed up. Mo1 had A LOT more than MO2 currently does. Mo1 was good enough that even people who disliked MO1 came around for MO2 because conceptually it was so intriguing. It was in no way a failed game and led to a very immersive history, immersive forum content, exactly what you'd want from a sandbox, and I've played other sandboxes... none of them interested me for long. Like LiF was fun to dig a hole for awhile, and then it's like ok log out.
People could write at least short story length summaries of eras of history in MO. I'd say the game did fail in the end, but it was due to TC and the idea that people should be able to auto-gen resources/walls. They thought if all the menial work was handled automatically that more content would be created, but that is faulty thinking. SV, love em or hate em, has a lot of faulty PoVs. I mean, we all do at times, but they seem more tied to them as you said. There was a rap battle, there were prize fights, there were people w/ screen shots of guild's surrender posts in their sigs, there were memes. Basically everything you could want from a sandbox MO1 had. It just was very small pop. NONE of this stuff is happening YET in MO2. Crafting is less deep, there is no breeding, in my humble opinion pvp is worse... but I spent MO1 as one of those PK adverse players. I didn't avoid pvp or anything, but I would never have PK'd someone just for 'fun fights,' cuz every time I was playing I Was doing real shit (and I did it pretty efficiently, almost never lost anything,) and it was stressful to imagine someone poking me while I was doing it. Some guy did that while I Was moving multiple molvas worth of stuff. He didn't kill me, but I was like man! I'm tryin to move all this shit and you're fuckin' around. Etc... but I mean, that time in my life is over, kinda. I hope MO2 would make me feel that serious again, but I'm never gonna be that 'into' it, I doubt. MO1 was a success because it hooked ME in a way a game has not since. It doesn't mean it's the best game I ever played, but it offered something very unique, something that MO2 doesn't have. By those standards MO2 is a fail sequel, having 10x the pop at least and still having dogshit content. That's more of a 'fact' than Mo1 failed.
If you weren't there and playing MO1 for hours per day, you wouldn't understand. That's all I can say. You might say there were few wolves and few sheep. I was neither, and I knew plenty of people like me. You had to put down a house to make a guild back then, and I didn't wanna fuck w/ TC cuz I didn't have the schedule to defend it, but if it was like now, I would have had a guild of similar minded solos who WENT IN. Some pvped, some didn't. None of them are what they would call sheep. Sheep is a mindset of helplessness. If you can kite someone trying to kill you until they give up, you are not a sheep. Sheep also, arguably, have a form of entitlement... all these "You can't kill ME" or "NON CONSENSUAL PVP? NO BUY!", but it's a part of the game. They expect the game and other people to protect them, at least in some way. They can be just as vindictive with mechanics as 'wolves' can. It's kind of a false dichotomy and even if MO1 was mostly all wolves, then the people existing w/o pvp most certainly weren't sheep (think about it.) If you think MO2 is all wolves, I dunno what to say. People are very protected by systems, Mo1 pvp was kill cuz you can, now you gotta measure out whether it's worth it.
(1/2 lol)
Mo1 was unrealized potential and MO2 is a larger more bare 'shell of' MO1. Mo1 with 3k people (assuming no lag or hax or w/e) would have been badass. I think people overestimate the amount of people who rage quit after getting killed. Just because, like I said, those people are sooo freaking unfamiliar with the type of game they have to make a forum post about how awful the game is. I mean if your post is I had fun for 8 hours in haven and got pk'd 4x in a row as soon as I spawned into Nave... it's like... how the fuck did you get PK'd 4 times in a row, did you try going A DIFFERENT ROUTE? What the hell were you doing in haven for 8 hours that was fun? lol. It's just weird. There are def enough people with a mindset to survive in MO, and while yea making a profit is a hurdle they may have a hard time overcoming, they have a better set up to make a flourishing universe... and the clock hasn't even started on that yet. We are in complete stasis. People are stacking mats and that's it.
Mo1 had a rough start, supposedly (I wasn't there,) but there are some problematic theories that are going to lead to failure of MO2. Like the theories of sheep needing to be protected. You think I'm one of those "HARDCORE GAM IF U DONT LIKE IT, QUIT" Nah, man. I geared many people and was always there to encourage people to stay, pick themselves up, etc. You can't change the universe though, only in that universe can things be created. It has to seem real. It's way too bent toward PvE atm. It's like 70-30, even if MO1, at its worst was like 20-80. I don't even know if 50-50 would be right for balance sake because the hardcore aspect makes even 'sheep' like the game more. The people who quit initially yea... but I mean I personally have recruited people to play the game and got them back into it, and people who you could make stay (in MO1) enjoy it. They might quit in the end cuz it's v stressful, but they will say they had fun at times, lots of fun. It's just not everyone wants that sort of 'ride,' but in terms of the type of gamers that are gonna make this game good, IMO, it's gonna take those.
Some of the people in here are some of the biggest carebears in MO1 (even consider me a carebear if you want ahaha,) but almost none of them want less PvP. Most people understand the level of PvP now is too low, it's the new kids who never played a game like this that come in like... eh, moar pve? At some point between the introduction of the criminal action box and haven, SV decided the road to mass appeal is thru more restrictive anti-pvp systems, and it's not. It's not gonna make anyone stick to the game long term. They are still gonna quit. The only diff is they might hook them for awhile longer. MO1 was a bit too bloody OK. Blue blocking people who just spawned in or people who were starting to learn combat in the GY was pretty wack, ok, we can accept that, but changing the whole game to get rid of that? I dunno, man. That's the problem, in a sandbox, even if you change something it resonates... so now haven has been exploited and now people can fire arrows into crowds w/ crims off and if they hit a grey they get a hit, if they hit a blue, nothing happens. That's not good content.
(2/2)
Mo1 had a rough start, supposedly (I wasn't there,) but there are some problematic theories that are going to lead to failure of MO2. Like the theories of sheep needing to be protected. You think I'm one of those "HARDCORE GAM IF U DONT LIKE IT, QUIT" Nah, man. I geared many people and was always there to encourage people to stay, pick themselves up, etc. You can't change the universe though, only in that universe can things be created. It has to seem real. It's way too bent toward PvE atm. It's like 70-30, even if MO1, at its worst was like 20-80. I don't even know if 50-50 would be right for balance sake because the hardcore aspect makes even 'sheep' like the game more. The people who quit initially yea... but I mean I personally have recruited people to play the game and got them back into it, and people who you could make stay (in MO1) enjoy it. They might quit in the end cuz it's v stressful, but they will say they had fun at times, lots of fun. It's just not everyone wants that sort of 'ride,' but in terms of the type of gamers that are gonna make this game good, IMO, it's gonna take those.
Some of the people in here are some of the biggest carebears in MO1 (even consider me a carebear if you want ahaha,) but almost none of them want less PvP. Most people understand the level of PvP now is too low, it's the new kids who never played a game like this that come in like... eh, moar pve? At some point between the introduction of the criminal action box and haven, SV decided the road to mass appeal is thru more restrictive anti-pvp systems, and it's not. It's not gonna make anyone stick to the game long term. They are still gonna quit. The only diff is they might hook them for awhile longer. MO1 was a bit too bloody OK. Blue blocking people who just spawned in or people who were starting to learn combat in the GY was pretty wack, ok, we can accept that, but changing the whole game to get rid of that? I dunno, man. That's the problem, in a sandbox, even if you change something it resonates... so now haven has been exploited and now people can fire arrows into crowds w/ crims off and if they hit a grey they get a hit, if they hit a blue, nothing happens. That's not good content.
(2/2)
This part is 100% true. SV has to much hand holding for players now. MO1 was way less forgiving. I am still not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The check box for enable criminal actions should not exist after your first 24hours of game time. Same for the help channel.
SV please stop coddling the player base and pull the training wheels off. But what do I know I am a bitter vet of MO1 launch and beta.
maybe a PvE server after all? 
https://steamplayercount.com/app/1170950
https://steamplayercount.com/app/1170950I appreciate the reply and I know this initial one won't do it justice as it deserves more but I'm short on time.
I will admit I know very little to nothing of MO1 and it's not fair for me to do a comparison in whether it failed or not as a game. I erred in that respect.
I've also not gotten very far in this game but I do have years in full loot pvp game Albion.
In some ways, I've come to notice the rep system in MO2 is actually more restrictive of PVP than albion. Please don't mind my comparison as it's the only full loot pvp game I have experience to compare too.
Games like these should never be pve servers.
I also think games like these need to offer space for unrestricted pvp.
That's why I'm an advocate for the system albion uses.
From what I can tell from the playerbase, this game almost restricts pvp too much. Which is the entire point of the game. There isn't a deep storyline to follow. It doesn't have a deep PVE system compared to your average MMO. PvP must be the focus.
I think PVP needs to be encouraged more without restriction.
But I also think there needs to be a space for PVE players to get used to the system and feel comfortable in the game until they become PVP players themselves. Or a hybrid.
In Albion I'd often gather in full pvp gear and kill other gatherers for loot.
I will be the first to admit I don't understand what the real vision for this game is and it's not readily advertised. If someone could give me a concise link to what this game is supposed to be envisioned by Henrik I'd appreciate that.
You'll never fully appease the pve players of a game. As much as I think they need a space to feel comfortable, I don't think that's the purpose of this game.
The PVP players are your core players. I think the current system has problems. A report system for murders? What do you do if you have two guilds that go to war that legit hate each other? Then everyone becomes a criminal. There should be completely unrestricted areas of the game for pvp. I'd like those areas to have certain draws to them so that even regular players would go there. But at the least these places could exist for Zerg VS Zerg wars to be fought without shenanigans.
I will definitely keep adding more constructive feedback as I become more familiar with the game. In some ways, the biggest drawback of this game to the greater world is the time sink involved just to learn basic things like making steel. I don't think it should be easier. But this game needs to educate its players better or promote their content creators better. My whole understanding of this game thus far is due to the few content creators that give info for this game.
Like CTX dude posted about Project Gorgon in off-topic, there are many things that can make a game fun for PvE players, including if it's just stuff around cities. There are big cities, bars, everything, can't do shit in them. It's lacking 'the world' feeling. Not saying you should have to be a pvp expert to leave town, but it should be a risk and an adventure. I mean, I wasn't all into full loot games. The full loot games I remember playing were like DIABLO haha. Just stuff that you lose everything on death if you can't recover your loot bag. It never seemed like a huge loss, to me, and it seemed fair enough. As I said also a few times, I played Black Desert for some months out of boredom; it has no looting, but you can lose money if people throw you into mobs and your socketed stuff breaks. Takes a pretty good skill play to do it, though. The reason I mention that is because people were super whiny about pvp on their forums, too. I don't think full loot has much to do with it. Pvp just makes people mental. That and the chance of running into the person who ganked you in town and them being like SUP NUB, or people putting your gear in trade box. It's like lool cool bud. That stuff really bothers people.
There is an imaginative portion of this community, there is a portion that is hard focused on the dominance/pvp (like that PERIOD, not in an imaginative or useful sense just fight fight fight), and there is the usual "I wanna has the the best/most stuff" crowd. All of those things go together very well in a full loot sandbox. MO1 interested me for a short time because I picked out the parts that could be explored/were interesting and explored them fully. There is a whole lot of NOTHING in this game, though. This game I mean MO1-2... and yea people are always doing dubious things so trying to be the richest person is a fools errand. Still, you can be unique.
It's not all about pvp, but pvp is a big driving force. I still think people should be able to gather in town and have drinks at the bars, you know, little 'stupid' flavory things like that would go a huge way to making the game more PvE oriented. As it is now, it's mostly a bunch of people standing around the bank saying get your fking horse out of the way.
MO will always be 'potential.' The potential it has that other games don't is the world (as weirdly designed and buggy as it is) and the first person view, real time combat/movement. They would do well to add in more town activities IMO and loosen pvp restrictions. I think the more convoluted a system gets, the more variables it tries to account for, the more flawed it will be. I support a more simple, more open pvp game. I think pvpers should be open pvp to all like they were in 1, even if they don't have stat loss. The idea should be create a lot of action outside of towns then create fun/relaxation in towns. In the same way it's hard to make a pvp flag system that properly governs pvp, it's also hard to manage pve flavor content to make it interesting and in-game rewarding, but I spent the whole of my MO1 time doing Sophistication cooking (as my primary income,) which was simply a flavor system that gave people rare titles. So, it's POSSIBLE.
No matter how mad all of the dunk u "I came from counterstrike" kids seem, I think everyone could benefit from role-play like content in and around towns. It would make things seem more real and, even, make it feel more real to murder someone which, whee, we all know is a wonderful feeling!
It's just a big shell right now tho. It's even more of a shell than MO1, but there is this hope that... even tho they blew the launch and people have already exploited their way to massive mat gainz (rip,) they can turn this into a living world that is more interesting than MO1 because it has more people. It's always gonna have the indie problems: bugs, exploits, wayward GMs... but it can still be the kinda game you want to log in and play. Right now, it's really not. There's nothing really worth it for me to do atm except trying to skim a few clade levels.
Not finding the down for whatever group of adventurers I was looking for haha. Am gonna see if I can find some on the RP discord - anime tooth - cuz this shit ain't that serious to me. I just wanna chill and get some luls, if we die and lose all our shit oh well. I can make it back in the time before our next adventure. I can make gainz EZ, but I'm already bored of 'looking for the next lore' or whatever. I wanna just have stupid fun, pretend MO is real life for a few hours and deal with the consequences of what happens, laugh about it later.
Come to Bakti. This is exactly how my brother and I live our Mortal life.
"Today let's go south as far as we can until we encounter something we can't kill."
Or try talking to people. Some of the biggest adventures I've had have come from encountering people and just standing around watching them do their thing for a while. This game is very social, kind of like EvE. There are lots of people who are just fucking around by the graveyard too confused and scared to do much else. These people are in my experience very easy to rope into misadventures.
Of course it does. Not being able to recognize it is normal though, so don't worry about not getting it. Humans are generally very self-centered.
the game is literally made for people to kill each other aka PVP. I dont worry you're just wrong
So your stance is that the mechanics of the game are inherently competitive and therefore it is unnecessary to focus on or even give any thought to people who are not the winners, correct?
This sort of thinking is often called 'gatekeeping' and is considered by almost everyone within a standard deviation of mean intelligence to be extremely shortsighted and foolish. Mortal Online is a multi-faceted world, and not many players will ever experience 100% of what it has to offer, which makes sweeping generalizations like yours even more foolish.
Hundreds or thousands of people play this game. Some will be PvP edgelords. Some will be crafters that spend most of their time chatting at the bank. Some will be PvE dungeon runners. Some will be gatherers. Most will be a splash of this and that.
You are saying that only one particular subset of these people have concerns worth considering... is that correct? You feel that only the real PvP-focused players deserve to have their thoughts heard?
This sort of thinking is often called 'gatekeeping' and is considered by almost everyone within a standard deviation of mean intelligence to be extremely shortsighted and foolish. Mortal Online is a multi-faceted world, and not many players will ever experience 100% of what it has to offer, which makes sweeping generalizations like yours even more foolish.
Hundreds or thousands of people play this game. Some will be PvP edgelords. Some will be crafters that spend most of their time chatting at the bank. Some will be PvE dungeon runners. Some will be gatherers. Most will be a splash of this and that.
You are saying that only one particular subset of these people have concerns worth considering... is that correct? You feel that only the real PvP-focused players deserve to have their thoughts heard?
I agree with this. Quite honestly I came for the full loot PVP but i see myself staying and loving the game for the crafting system. Which, for myself I find odd. I can't name a single game I enjoy crafting in. That just speaks to how great the crafting sysyem is. It's an enjoyable loop to get resources, experiment with items you can make, find and read books. Just that loop can keep me busy for hundreds of hours. I doubt I would love it so much if it wasn't for the full loot pvp. It would feel pointless in a way.
All those who have a PvE server want a thumbs up.
Just like playing tug of war solo, you grab one end of that rope and run your ass around town till you are tired. Then you smile look up at the sky and proclaim, "I did it, I have won!"
I share those sentiments as a mostly pve player who enjoys exploration, crafting, and micro-tinkering for fun. But I wouldn't even be here if the game didn't have full loot non-consensual pvp.
In fact, I was mining the other day and almost fell asleep when all of a sudden a pig grunted nearby in an area that didn't have pigs. I woke up instantly and fully alert, it was just a player with a pet pig walking past.
it is said that the economy of MO2 is focused on PvP and therefore it would not be possible to put a PvE server. But I can imagine that you can make changes to the economy in this case. And I also believe that it will not even cost that much work. So for me it is already certain that if Mo2 raises monthly costs, I'm gone. It is a pity for me of course. Because I would have liked to explore the beautiful world, tame animals, mining, fishing, just everything without the danger of losing everything. Unfortunately there is no other game which I could play alternatively. Therefore, I can still hope.
just wanted to say that you and your brother sound like the type of people that i want to play this game with. Feel free to add my characters to your friend list: Matic or Arkeopteryks
To the OP: i recommend thinking about phrases like 'the danger of losing everything' in the context of this game. It takes some adjusting, but eventually you can learn to leave that attachment to items behind. Most of your stuff can be replaced relatively easily. Changing that mindset requires a lot of discipline but at least for me, it has been worth it.
To CrgHck: I apologize for saying you were emotionally stunted, that sounded kind of petty, but thats just me having fun. I do in fact understand your viewpoint. It sounds like, for you, this game and empathy do not make sense together. I get it. And I look forward to meeting you in battle someday!
My real question is, did you ever play the old school Might and Magic games? Because your name sounds familiar...