Putzins Zeal and Godkin's Zeal

[Handsome Young Man]

So you expect me to drag someone else into a pissing match by spilling their name, but you won't even name yourself? Lol. This guy. My source has demonstrated considerably more MO1 knowledge to me than you have. I'll take their word over yours.

you literally brought it up, then admitted your own knowledge is supplemented by others.

 

[Kaemik]

you literally brought it up, then admitted your own knowledge is supplemented by others.

Yeah because you were flaunting years of experiences and then I said it doesn't line up with what some other vets I've talked with have said. But the funny part is I kind of took you at your word you had years of experience. But you really haven't said anything so far that convinces me you ever played more than a few months or on and off for short spurts for those few years.

Pretty easy to make big claims when nobody knows who you are. In-fact it would seem easier to conceal your identity if you were never half as big a deal as you make yourself out to be.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Yeah because you were flaunting years of experiences and then I said it doesn't line up with what some other vets I've talked with have said. But the funny part is I kind of took you at your word you had years of experience. But you really haven't said anything so far that convinces me you ever played more than a few months or on and off for short spurts for those few years.

Pretty easy to make big claims when nobody knows who you are.

This is coming from the guy, who again, openly has stated his information on MO1 was given to him by others rather than by his own experience.

Yet is here on the forums saying how things should be basing it off what he was 'told'.

See, you and I are different because my experiences are my experiences. I know they happened, and I learned from them. You on the other hand had experiences spun to you by word of mouth and therefore that makes you think you are on par now?

Reading a book about a veteran of a war does not make you a veteran of the war.

If your truly going to go down this path of claiming I didn't play MO1 to the extent I say I did then I believe I've actually struck several nerves in you.

How can I convince someone who doesn't have his own experiences in something I have played. Like, how ass-backwards is that?

Just to re-iterate, you brought up you heard by word from 'other vets' how things worked with magic in the game. But according to me what they said and what I said do not line up, therefore my information is wrong even though it is first hand experience while yours is second hand experience.

I've played a mage several times through out the games lifespan, and I've played with people who have mained them. I've helped people obtain their scrolls and seal keys, and watched people use said spells extensively in all sorts of manners. But let us take your example of Spiritism.

What doesn't add up? How I said people used spiritism to build janky ass TC? You do realize with spritism added people could spawn anywhere from the etherworld and call their pets up with materials, and even res people in places that weren't meant to be normally reached (As guess what, a lot of the times people abused stuck and other janky shit like falling through the bottom of the map which would have them spawn ontop of the skybox to fall back down onto where they wanted.)

Then they would build TC towers, and literal TC assets like guard towers, walls, banks, etc. in these unreachable / exploit spots and put the game on a literal gridlock.

But I wouldn't know anything about that right? It's not like I literally watched people do it, and even had to play against people who did it.

 

[Kaemik]

Well given this is a spillover from other conversations in other threads the problem is all you do is whine about how horrible combat in this game is and how much better it was in MO1 and how the only way to achieve that is to basically turn MO2 into counterstrike. I mean last night you made a topic on how the game shouldn't be forgiving of high pings. Sure thing bud. Split the game into an NA, EU, and Oceanic server and then we can talk about how the game should be balanced around 50 ping.

From my own experience, if I go over and play MO1. Combat feels trash man, honestly one of the many reasons I never got that into MO1. When I play here, feels pretty good. And that perspective matters given that if you want to grow a game how the first hour of combat feels are way more important than how it feels after you've played hundreds of hours. Most players will never put in hundreds of hours to a game that doesn't feel fun by the time they finish the tutorial.

Now when I talk to mages about MO1 they talk about how there was incredible complexity to it. How knowing where certain spawns are even when you can't see them, or having the right corpse from the right dungeon and combining it with the right reagents can make me that much stronger. And how people whine about mages because they don't understand them or care to get good at them.

Meanwhile, you and your ilk say that you should be rewarded for having the most "skill" referring exclusively to twitch skill. And that you can tell bad players by how they stuck to "no-skill" builds. Maybe the "no-skill" builds were builds you simply did not fully understand or appreciate. I know from a lot of experience across a lot of games over the years "no-skill" builds are quite frequently not as simple as their detractors claim. Given that it was actually described to me how the mage systems are way more complex than melee builds which really only need to worry about putting the pointy thing in the other guy, I'm inclined to believe by your consistent tone, that you're one of the many people I've encountered across many games over the years that simply likes to discount the value of anything that isn't their own chosen playstyle.

I may not have played MO1 for "years" but I've been working this crafting system for weeks and if things like finding the best minion combos as a necromancer are anything like finding the best potion recipes for an alchemist I can understand why people would complain about OP minions rather than putting in the work to become good themselves. Especially when some of the components require dungeons, melee doesn't have any equivalent. Figuring out cronite and ohg was not all that hard.

You're advocating for the gameplay that appeals to you and wrapping yourself in veteran status to make that appear objective while it's a subjective opinion just like anyone else's... and you can't actually confirm your veteran status.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Well given this is a spillover from other conversations in other threads the problem is all you do is whine about how horrible combat in this game is and how much better it was in MO1 and how the only way to achieve that is to basically turn MO2 into counterstrike. I mean last night you made a topic on how the game shouldn't be forgiving of high pings. Sure thing bud. Split the game into an NA, EU, and Oceanic server and then we can talk about how the game should be balanced around 50 ping.

From my own experience, if I go over and play MO1. Combat feels trash man, honestly one of the many reasons I never got that into MO1. When I play here, feels pretty good. And that perspective matters given that if you want to grow a game how the first hour of combat feels are way more important than how it feels after you've played hundreds of hours. Most players will never put in hundreds of hours to a game that doesn't feel fun by the time they finish the tutorial.

Now when I talk to mages about MO1 they talk about how there was incredible complexity to it. How knowing where certain spawns are even when you can't see them, or having the right corpse from the right dungeon and combining it with the right reagents can make me that much stronger. And how people whine about mages because they don't understand them or care to get good at them.

Meanwhile, you and your ilk say that you should be rewarded for having the most "skill" referring exclusively to twitch skill. And that you can tell bad players by how they stuck to "no-skill" builds. Maybe the "no-skill" builds were builds you simply did not fully understand or appreciate. I know from a lot of experience across a lot of games over the years "no-skill" builds are quite frequently not as simple as their detractors claim. Given that it was actually described to me how the mage systems are way more complex than melee builds which really only need to worry about putting the pointy thing in the other guy, I'm inclined to believe by your consistent tone, that you're one of the many people I've encountered across many games over the years that simply likes to discount the value of anything that isn't their own chosen playstyle.

I may not have played MO1 for "years" but I've been working this crafting system for weeks and if things like finding the best minion combos as a necromancer are anything like finding the best potion recipes for an alchemist I can understand why people would complain about OP minions rather than putting in the work to become good themselves. Especially when some of the components require dungeons, melee doesn't have any equivalent. Figuring out cronite and ohg was not all that hard.

You're advocating for the gameplay that appeals to you and wrapping yourself in veteran status to make that appear objective while it's a subjective opinion just like anyone else's... and you can't actually confirm your veteran status.

pet attack all

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Well given this is a spillover from other conversations in other threads the problem is all you do is whine about how horrible combat in this game is and how much better it was in MO1 and how the only way to achieve that is to basically turn MO2 into counterstrike. I mean last night you made a topic on how the game shouldn't be forgiving of high pings. Sure thing bud. Split the game into an NA, EU, and Oceanic server and then we can talk about how the game should be balanced around 50 ping.

From my own experience, if I go over and play MO1. Combat feels trash man, honestly one of the many reasons I never got that into MO1. When I play here, feels pretty good. And that perspective matters given that if you want to grow a game how the first hour of combat feels are way more important than how it feels after you've played hundreds of hours. Most players will never put in hundreds of hours to a game that doesn't feel fun by the time they finish the tutorial.

Now when I talk to mages about MO1 they talk about how there was incredible complexity to it. How knowing where certain spawns are even when you can't see them, or having the right corpse from the right dungeon and combining it with the right reagents can make me that much stronger. And how people whine about mages because they don't understand them or care to get good at them.

Meanwhile, you and your ilk say that you should be rewarded for having the most "skill" referring exclusively to twitch skill. And that you can tell bad players by how they stuck to "no-skill" builds. Maybe the "no-skill" builds were builds you simply did not fully understand or appreciate. I know from a lot of experience across a lot of games over the years "no-skill" builds are quite frequently not as simple as their detractors claim. Given that it was actually described to me how the mage systems are way more complex than melee builds which really only need to worry about putting the pointy thing in the other guy, I'm inclined to believe by your consistent tone, that you're one of the many people I've encountered across many games over the years that simply likes to discount the value of anything that isn't their own chosen playstyle.

I may not have played MO1 for "years" but I've been working this crafting system for weeks and if things like finding the best minion combos as a necromancer are anything like finding the best potion recipes for an alchemist I can understand why people would complain about OP minions rather than putting in the work to become good themselves. Especially when some of the components require dungeons, melee doesn't have any equivalent. Figuring out cronite and ohg was not all that hard.

You're advocating for the gameplay that appeals to you and wrapping yourself in veteran status to make that appear objective while it's a subjective opinion just like anyone else's... and you can't actually confirm your veteran status.

its just them being better players, right?

 

[Kaemik]

So is everyone playing MO1 right now a minion master? If not, why not? Don't tell me it's because people refuse to play an OP class. I might not have years into this game but I have enough years into competitive games to know that's bullcrap. If something is truly OP everyone will use it eventually. And if they don't there is a good reason they don't. Usually switching to a "no skill" build or tactic in a game teaches you very quickly and very hard that those builds and tactics have downsides. Otherwise you can expect a nerf-bat next patch.

 

[Teknique]

How come I’m not allowed to talk this much shit

 

[Teknique]

So is everyone playing MO1 right now a minion master? If not, why not? Don't tell me it's because people refuse to play an OP class. I might not have years into this game but I have enough years into competitive games to know that's bullcrap. If something is truly OP everyone will use it eventually. And if they don't there is a good reason they don't. Usually switching to a "no skill" build or tactic in a game teaches you very quickly and very hard that those builds and tactics have downsides. Otherwise you can expect a nerf-bat next patch.

I hope you're not suggesting that because its slightly difficult to obtain then it can be balanced in any way. That of course can be a singular factor in the balancing, but to make that the sole criteria? Absolutely not.


I had a different type of minion master that I enjoyed

 

[Handsome Young Man]

So is everyone playing MO1 right now a minion master? If not, why not? Don't tell me it's because people refuse to play an OP class. I might not have years into this game but I have enough years into competitive games to know that's bullcrap. If something is truly OP everyone will use it eventually. And if they don't there is a good reason they don't. Usually switching to a "no skill" build or tactic in a game teaches you very quickly and very hard that those builds and tactics have downsides. Otherwise you can expect a nerf-bat next patch.

This post alone shows how truly ignorant you are to it all.

 

[Kaemik]

I hope you're not suggesting that because its slightly difficult to obtain then it can be balanced in any way. That of course can be a singular factor in the balancing, but to make that the sole criteria? Absolutely not.


I had a different type of minion master that I enjoyed

No not at all. Not the sole criteria. What I'm suggesting is damn near literally everyone will run something OP if it doesn't get fixed eventually. If not everyone is running it then there is a reason. I'm not going to claim to know every factor playing into that reason. Just that if 90%+ of the playerbase isn't running it, there are good reasons they aren't. That's a universal truth I can apply to any competitive game.

Like when literally 90%+ of everyone who was playing foot-fighter ran Thursar-Khurite, THAT was a good indication that it was way too OP.

This post alone shows how truly ignorant you are to it all.

Wasn't your lackey accusing ME of not addressing points? I take it by the fact you didn't, you can't. Have a good night.

 

[Solairerection]

So is everyone playing MO1 right now a minion master? If not, why not? Don't tell me it's because people refuse to play an OP class. I might not have years into this game but I have enough years into competitive games to know that's bullcrap. If something is truly OP everyone will use it eventually. And if they don't there is a good reason they don't. Usually switching to a "no skill" build or tactic in a game teaches you very quickly and very hard that those builds and tactics have downsides. Otherwise you can expect a nerf-bat next patch.

There is a thing called 'sportsmanship', and believe or not that exists in computer-gaming aswell. People in general, regardless of game, wants a fun and fair experience, even in a competitive setting. It's usually only try-hards who see no difference and play with whatever arsenal they have and don't care about balance, or people who can take advantage of it due to lack of mechanical skills in other areas.

Also, atleast for me all the OP stuff is boring as shit to play or felt gimmicky and as one-trick-pony. Dominator-mage for instance was no difference than playing a regular mage with a few extra buttons to attack/withdraw your pet, and since it didn't have any particular skills to it other than keeping a lookout for it's health (something you are already doing as a mage) I might aswell have played a regular mage for, almost, the same experience.

Otherwise you can expect a nerf-bat next patch.

Not true. Sometimes developers are just blind to what is happening and it can take more than a couple of patches to fix things, if ever.

edit: forgot to add regarding developers not fixings things on time or at all: This is a sandbox mmorpg and not a quick-match shooter. "I spent a lot of time on it" has been used as reason to not change something, whether it be breeding, dominated pets or alchemy. Because the player wasted time doing something it's ok to have it bat-shit overpowered because that's how balance work, apparantly.

 

[[AF]Tyrone]

Got to fight a couple of the New Zeal members these past couple days. Have to say they're all pretty bad, had bad team work, and didn't perform very well under pressure. Idk how good OG Zeal is, but the new Zeal is a bottom tier group based on their performance I've seen so far.

If this was the old system the New Zeal would lose their guild house day 1. Imo Henrik should give the Zeal name to the OG Zeal.

And reminder, if you're losing to me you're really bad. I have 400 ping and not a single animation is proper for me.

 

[Lasciel]

Many players didn't utilize overpowered builds such as DK necromancers in Mortal or dominators in earlier patches because they playstyle was simply boring.

Like someone Solair said, there is something called sportsmanship and it's in seeking competition with fun and fair gameplay, not abusing bullshit mechanics.

 

[Kaemik]

There is a thing called 'sportsmanship', and believe or not...

Intentionally running sub-par builds with no point doesn't really fall within it. That's called letting your team down.

But when you start playing "OP" or "No skill" builds you grow as a player. When I first played Start Craft 2 I got tower rushed all the time. I started tower rushing people and using that tactic taught me the counters, and I went back to playing normally but knowing how to deal with a tower rush. Then 4-pool zergling rush was the cheese tactic I had issues dealing with. I played that for awhile and learned it was super easy to counter, went back to playing primarily Terran and easily stomped any 4-Pool rush that came my way.

When I played Overwatch Bastion stomped at low ELO. I started locking Bastion more and started to climb the ELO. I learned there was a reason he really wasn't considered OP in the upper ELOs. I worked Hanzo into my rotation if I was DPS and the enemy pulled Bastion and started countering Bastions quite effectively.

The notion of honor or sportsmanship by nerfing yourself is stupid. There is only teamwork and growth as a player. If a builds OP everyone but complete and utter fools will run it. If they don't, there is a reason be that team composition, cost to run, or understated counters. MO1 may not be a RTS or a MOBA but it does have one of the fastest per-character grind times of any MMO and the ability to pick up new character slots. The fact you don't all play minion masters and instead choose to complain about them tells me something. I don't need experience in any particular game to know that it's something more than "sportsmanship" because I have enough experience in competitive gaming to know that is crap.

Sportsmanship is saying gf when you lose and not blaming it on the build the enemy used. Refusing to run builds you consider "unsporting" is just being a bad player. It's like those low bronze-locked fools that choose a "skilled" pick like Widowmaker as your team's 5th DPS (Never a 6th in any team I'm on) and then whine about the Bastion as the reason they lost.

 

[Solairerection]

Intentionally running sub-par builds with no point doesn't really fall within it. That's called letting your team down.

Nowhere was this mentioned.

But when you start playing "OP" or "No skill" builds you grow as a player. When I first played Start Craft 2 I got tower rushed all the time. I started tower rushing people and using that tactic taught me the counters, and I went back to playing normally but knowing how to deal with a tower rush. Then 4-pool zergling rush was the cheese tactic I had issues dealing with. I played that for awhile and learned it was super easy to counter, went back to playing primarily Terran and easily stomped any 4-Pool rush that came my way.

When I played Overwatch Bastion stomped at low ELO. I started locking Bastion more and started to climb the ELO. I learned there was a reason he really wasn't considered OP in the upper ELOs. I worked Hanzo into my rotation if I was DPS and the enemy pulled Bastion and started countering Bastions quite effectively.

That's a very cool story.

The notion of honor or sportsmanship by nerfing yourself is stupid. There is only teamwork and growth as a player. If a builds OP everyone but complete and utter fools will run it.

"It's usually only try-hards who see no difference and play with whatever arsenal they have and don't care about balance, or people who can take advantage of it due to lack of mechanical skills in other areas. "

Glad we found out what you are.

MO1 may not be a RTS or a MOBA but it does have one of the fastest per-character grind times of any MMO and the ability to pick up new character slots. The fact you don't all play minion masters and instead choose to complain about them tells me something. I don't need experience in any particular game to know that it's something more than "sportsmanship" because I have enough experience in competitive gaming to know that is crap.

As said, sportsmanship exists. Just because you don't understand or agree with the concept doesn't mean others don't. Most guilds did in fact have a couple of characters of fatmages and (other) mounteds aswell as dominators and necromancers with Kurnas, Deathknights, Minotaurs, Nitre-guardians/Queen, you name it, usually in the case of when the enemy brought too many of their own combat-pets or mounteds. It's just most players didn't bother bringing them out as they were boring as shit to play with and against.

Also, I don't get paid to play Mortal Online, so "winning at all cost" is not important to me. And it would seem is not important to many players in MO's community. The main focus has, and will be, the quality of fight.

 

[Kaemik]

Nowhere was this mentioned.

It didn't need to be. If the best team comp is all minion masters then any other comp is intentionally running a sub-par build. If one minion master per team is the best comp then that sounds balanced to me.

You don't need to get paid to want to grow and develop into a better player. It's the reason you should be playing these types of games. If something is "OP" you lock it until you learn to counter it and thus grow as a player, the developers fix it, or you whine endlessly which is the most unsportsmanlike thing you could possibly do.

I've met plenty of players who fall into the last category and while climbing out of the low ranks when I first start a game. Nothing more frustrating than being teamed with a Widowmaker when you need a tank or a healer because Widowmaker is a "skilled" pick. Glad we found out what YOU are.

I'm the type of player that will switch up my build if something seems OP until I learn enough aspects of the game I can settle into whatever complements my personal playstyle and needed team-comp best. Whenever I find my final build I know the counter to all the common cheeses because anything I couldn't counter I played until I learned how. If I didn't want to grow like that, I wouldn't play competitive games with roles and strats.

 

[Lasciel]

It didn't need to be. If the best team comp is all minion masters then any other comp is intentionally running a sub-par build. If one minion master per team is the best comp then that sounds balanced to me.

You don't need to get paid to want to grow and develop into a better player. It's the reason you should be playing these types of games. If something is "OP" you lock it until you learn to counter it and thus grow as a player, the developers fix it, or you whine endlessly which is the most unsportsmanlike thing you could possibly do.

I've met plenty of players who fall into the last category and while climbing out of the low ranks when I first start a game. Nothing more frustrating than being teamed with a Widowmaker when you need a tank or a healer because Widowmaker is a "skilled" pick. Glad we found out what YOU are.

I'm the type of player that will switch up my build if something seems OP until I learn enough aspects of the game I can settle into whatever complements my personal playstyle and needed team-comp best. Whenever I find my final build I know the counter to all the common cheeses because anything I couldn't counter I played until I learned how. If I didn't want to grow like that, I wouldn't play competitive games with roles and strats.

You also don't have any first hand experience with Mortal Online so pretty much everything you say about it lacks worth. Competitive experience in games where the sole game design is focused on competition can't really be compared to something like an MMORPG. Not everyone enjoys the same playstyle, and even if something is overpowered there are some people who would rather not play than utilize it. The issue with the example of DK's in Mortal 1 was the game centered around them. All PvE was done with them, and they were vital if not game-changing to simply have one in a fight, this is how strong they were.

Were you stupid not to have one? Sure. But it was also shitty game design to implement them and they did more bad for the game than they did good, even if people "enjoyed" it, so all the whining about them was warranted. There was no direct counter to them.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

this dude is literally trying to tell people that one player running a broken pet is balanced and if you dont your letting your team down.

sorry dude but no one remotely interested in pvp from a competitive standpoint brought pets, pets were the most unskillful thing in a players arsenal. you're telling me telling a pet to attack and calling it back when it needs heals is skill based? when it had no stamina, pursued forever, phased through terrain and buildings.. even dk's would block your attacks in-between their own and had hp to the point it would take... GET THIS.. 10 people hitting it for a straight 30-40 seconds to kill it.

cant even make this shit up.

face it kae, you just dont know what you're talking about and there are people now backing that up.

 

[Kaemik]

You also don't have any first hand experience with Mortal Online

I'm not claiming vet status but I did play the game. I have enough to know you can build a new character in a few days and that it wasn't too hard to pick up a new character slot later in the game when necromancy was a thing. It wasn't like ArcheAge or something where dramatic build changes would seriously set you back in strength due to the endless grind.