New standings system

Rulant

Active member
May 30, 2020
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Why not make it to where you are able to become a citizen of a certain nation instead and that way it avoids people coming to a town belonging to a nation YOU live at and fight with other players in and end up losing standing in your own town because of others attacking? Seems like an obvious way to have the system, and just make it to where you can change nation once every 2 weeks if you decide to.
 

Necromantic

Active member
Jun 9, 2020
349
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The system doesn't sound well thought out as far as I can see anyway. Easily abusable.
Needs a better system, like the one I've been talking about in MO1 for years. :p
Global actions, local contextual enforcement rules, if known.
 

ElPerro

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2020
664
771
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The system doesn't sound well thought out as far as I can see anyway. Easily abusable.
Needs a better system, like the one I've been talking about in MO1 for years. :p
Global actions, local contextual enforcement rules, if known.
Nothing global, everything should be regional
 

Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,133
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Can we have it explained why StarVault have chosen to make the priest that the victim res at matters - instead of just the land in which the "crime" was committed? I feel like we need to understand this decision to give informed feedback. @Henrik Nyström
From a "logical" point of view it does make sense.
You get killed somewhere and nobody has seen it. Why should you get a negative standing?
But once the victim revives it will tell it to the priest.
 

lord_yoshi

Member
Oct 3, 2020
86
92
18
I'm just going to type my notes out here while I figure out the standings system. Explanations are from Seb (FarmerJoe). Really Henrik should have typed a detailed explanation so Seb wouldn't have to answer a couple dozen questions about it. I can't play the game currently, so uncertain comments are in square brackets.
Overview:
  • Each player has regional (Nation) reputation scores and a global murder count (MC) score.
  • MCs are just like MO1, five MCs and you're a murderer (AKA "Red" player), you must wait eight hours in-game to reduce the MC score by one (burn one off), timer resets for new reported murders, if you go down to four or less MCs, you're no longer considered a murderer.
  • If you kill a non-criminal/non-murderer player (AKA "Blue" player) and they revive somewhere, they can report the murder to the priest. This will make you lose reputation with that region AND give you a MC. [NPCs will probably also give MCs in the future.]
  • Murderers are no longer instantly attacked by guards and are not revealed as murderers (No red name), but it is undecided if guards will attack them if they are attacked by someone else or if they can defend themselves in guard zones. Guards will still attack anyone that attacks a non-criminal/non-murderer.
  • Stat loss counts (SL) are the same as well, gain two SLs per murder, lose one SL point every four hours, timer resets for new reported murders, if resurrecting while a murderer, lose one random stat point per SL point).
  • If you kill a criminal (AKA "Grey" player) or murderer, they cannot report you for that murder.

  • Joining a region (Not currently in the game) will reduce your reputation to negative with opposing regions ("Put you in the red" according to Seb) and any players in regions at war with your region will be flagged as war enemies and cannot report their murders. (This is pretty much the MO1 Factions system, but more integrated into the game and now there are incentives to join one.)
  • The only revealed ways to increase region reputation are to kill the region's enemies (Players or NPCs) which often results in losing reputation with the other nation or by "Doing stuff", like killing bandits for some regions.
  • Your race plays a huge role in your maximum regional reputation scores and how much reputation you gain or lose for actions.
  • If you are in negative reputation with a region, you cannot revive at that region and the region guards will openly attack you.
  • Region reputation affects what NPCs will sell to you and for how much.
  • You shouldn't be able to have high reputation scores with all regions.

  • Bounty hunting was mentioned.
  • No kind of political rank system planned (Generals, etc.)
The concerns about system flaws don't seem to be so bad, someone isn't going to ghost for an hour or two just to report a single MC in another region, and if they do, you won't see them for several hours. Becoming a murderer doesn't lock you out of all guarded towns now, and the reputation loss amount isn't currently known, so we'll have to wait and see for the actual numbers.
 

Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,133
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  • Stat loss counts (SL) are the same as well, gain two SLs per murder, lose one SL point every four hours, timer resets for new reported murders, if resurrecting while a murderer, lose one random stat point per SL point).

Actually not a big fan of statloss counts. I already know that I will just keep my character logged in while I sleep... Which is kind of retarded.
 

Bernfred

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2020
847
400
63
Actually not a big fan of statloss counts. I already know that I will just keep my character logged in while I sleep... Which is kind of retarded.
people with stable internet connection had an edge
 

Skydancer

Active member
May 28, 2020
107
150
43
I'm just going to type my notes out here while I figure out the standings system. Explanations are from Seb (FarmerJoe). Really Henrik should have typed a detailed explanation so Seb wouldn't have to answer a couple dozen questions about it. I can't play the game currently, so uncertain comments are in square brackets.
Overview:
  • Each player has regional (Nation) reputation scores and a global murder count (MC) score.
  • MCs are just like MO1, five MCs and you're a murderer (AKA "Red" player), you must wait eight hours in-game to reduce the MC score by one (burn one off), timer resets for new reported murders, if you go down to four or less MCs, you're no longer considered a murderer.
  • If you kill a non-criminal/non-murderer player (AKA "Blue" player) and they revive somewhere, they can report the murder to the priest. This will make you lose reputation with that region AND give you a MC. [NPCs will probably also give MCs in the future.]
  • Murderers are no longer instantly attacked by guards and are not revealed as murderers (No red name), but it is undecided if guards will attack them if they are attacked by someone else or if they can defend themselves in guard zones. Guards will still attack anyone that attacks a non-criminal/non-murderer.
  • Stat loss counts (SL) are the same as well, gain two SLs per murder, lose one SL point every four hours, timer resets for new reported murders, if resurrecting while a murderer, lose one random stat point per SL point).
  • If you kill a criminal (AKA "Grey" player) or murderer, they cannot report you for that murder.

  • Joining a region (Not currently in the game) will reduce your reputation to negative with opposing regions ("Put you in the red" according to Seb) and any players in regions at war with your region will be flagged as war enemies and cannot report their murders. (This is pretty much the MO1 Factions system, but more integrated into the game and now there are incentives to join one.)
  • The only revealed ways to increase region reputation are to kill the region's enemies (Players or NPCs) which often results in losing reputation with the other nation or by "Doing stuff", like killing bandits for some regions.
  • Your race plays a huge role in your maximum regional reputation scores and how much reputation you gain or lose for actions.
  • If you are in negative reputation with a region, you cannot revive at that region and the region guards will openly attack you.
  • Region reputation affects what NPCs will sell to you and for how much.
  • You shouldn't be able to have high reputation scores with all regions.

  • Bounty hunting was mentioned.
  • No kind of political rank system planned (Generals, etc.)
The concerns about system flaws don't seem to be so bad, someone isn't going to ghost for an hour or two just to report a single MC in another region, and if they do, you won't see them for several hours. Becoming a murderer doesn't lock you out of all guarded towns now, and the reputation loss amount isn't currently known, so we'll have to wait and see for the actual numbers.

Great write-up. In absence of information players will try and fill the gaps and make judgements based on their assumptions. Systems need to have their key points and intentions summarized in-game or on the site. This will help people assess the type of game MO2 is aiming to become and let them baseline their experiences with the system against its intended function; Makes providing feedback and suggestions much easier and more purposeful for all parties involved.

Standing, of all currently implemented systems needs this the most, being brand new to the mortal franchise.

From the information shared so far I think it sounds like a great starting point, better than the old flagging system and creates a more believable world where the wolves are among us and each player must use their wits rather than knowing 100% of the time who is a murderer and who is not. Opens up more options for the unlawful playstyle too in that they can function in towns/lawful areas as long as they behave themselves and aren't discovered by someone who knows them to be a murderer (faction standing permitting).
 

lord_yoshi

Member
Oct 3, 2020
86
92
18
Actually not a big fan of statloss counts. I already know that I will just keep my character logged in while I sleep... Which is kind of retarded.
Having murder counts and stat loss counts decrease over time when offline would be preferred, even if it's at a reduced rate. Requiring people to stay logged in just to pad the population counts is pretty annoying.

And yeah, stat loss as a game mechanic is a mild inconvenience at worst and really shouldn't exist.
 
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Rhias

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,133
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If you really want to punish murders than make statloss counts only reduce by dying (and loosing stats). But don't make it by burning afk counts.
 

ElPerro

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2020
664
771
93
From a "logical" point of view it does make sense.
You get killed somewhere and nobody has seen it. Why should you get a negative standing?
But once the victim revives it will tell it to the priest.

The concerns about system flaws don't seem to be so bad, someone isn't going to ghost for an hour or two just to report a single MC in another region, and if they do, you won't see them for several hours. Becoming a murderer doesn't lock you out of all guarded towns now, and the reputation loss amount isn't currently known, so we'll have to wait and see for the actual numbers.
You underestimate the amount of salt produced by some ppl, they will be happy to ghost for an hour to get some form of vengeance. And theres also the new teleport home priest option.

This just defeats the whole purpose of having regional reputation system. Why care about not griefing ppl where you live if anyone can report u from anywhere. Just MO1 global flagging all over again. Only reporting to priest in the same region of the murder should give any loss of rep imo
 
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PatWins

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
234
374
63
I'm just going to type my notes out here while I figure out the standings system. Explanations are from Seb (FarmerJoe). Really Henrik should have typed a detailed explanation so Seb wouldn't have to answer a couple dozen questions about it. I can't play the game currently, so uncertain comments are in square brackets.
Overview:
  • Each player has regional (Nation) reputation scores and a global murder count (MC) score.
  • MCs are just like MO1, five MCs and you're a murderer (AKA "Red" player), you must wait eight hours in-game to reduce the MC score by one (burn one off), timer resets for new reported murders, if you go down to four or less MCs, you're no longer considered a murderer.
  • If you kill a non-criminal/non-murderer player (AKA "Blue" player) and they revive somewhere, they can report the murder to the priest. This will make you lose reputation with that region AND give you a MC. [NPCs will probably also give MCs in the future.]
  • Murderers are no longer instantly attacked by guards and are not revealed as murderers (No red name), but it is undecided if guards will attack them if they are attacked by someone else or if they can defend themselves in guard zones. Guards will still attack anyone that attacks a non-criminal/non-murderer.
  • Stat loss counts (SL) are the same as well, gain two SLs per murder, lose one SL point every four hours, timer resets for new reported murders, if resurrecting while a murderer, lose one random stat point per SL point).
  • If you kill a criminal (AKA "Grey" player) or murderer, they cannot report you for that murder.

  • Joining a region (Not currently in the game) will reduce your reputation to negative with opposing regions ("Put you in the red" according to Seb) and any players in regions at war with your region will be flagged as war enemies and cannot report their murders. (This is pretty much the MO1 Factions system, but more integrated into the game and now there are incentives to join one.)
  • The only revealed ways to increase region reputation are to kill the region's enemies (Players or NPCs) which often results in losing reputation with the other nation or by "Doing stuff", like killing bandits for some regions.
  • Your race plays a huge role in your maximum regional reputation scores and how much reputation you gain or lose for actions.
  • If you are in negative reputation with a region, you cannot revive at that region and the region guards will openly attack you.
  • Region reputation affects what NPCs will sell to you and for how much.
  • You shouldn't be able to have high reputation scores with all regions.

  • Bounty hunting was mentioned.
  • No kind of political rank system planned (Generals, etc.)
The concerns about system flaws don't seem to be so bad, someone isn't going to ghost for an hour or two just to report a single MC in another region, and if they do, you won't see them for several hours. Becoming a murderer doesn't lock you out of all guarded towns now, and the reputation loss amount isn't currently known, so we'll have to wait and see for the actual numbers.
Thanks for writing this.
 

Necromantic

Active member
Jun 9, 2020
349
224
43
Nothing global, everything should be regional
For rulings to be local you first need actions be global. You can't just forget about the actions someone did in "another land", especially when it's something that is against your rules or may even be against your people. But there need to be means of reporting it and not just everything automatically known everywhere. You need a global context no matter what, just how every judiciary reacts to it should be up to local rules. Without global context everything is just shallow.

From a "logical" point of view it does make sense.
You get killed somewhere and nobody has seen it. Why should you get a negative standing?
But once the victim revives it will tell it to the priest.
Can I bribe priests so everyone who reports me for a murder count gets a murder count instead?