Leveling speed in the beta

[Kaemik]

So I'm not even talking about "make it fun" I'm talking about "don't make people do it if they don't find it fun"

A PvPer should NEVER have to macro or do PVE to get better at PvP.

But if the trading system is good and gathering crafting are considered grindy by some and fun by others that's fine. We can all opt out of those systems if we want.

That's the balance.

 

[Kuroi]

So I'm not even talking about "make it fun" I'm talking about "don't make people do it if they don't find it fun"

A PvPer should NEVER have to macro or do PVE to get better at PvP.

But if the trading system is good and gathering crafting are considered grindy by some and fun by others that's fine. We can all opt out of those systems if we want.

That's the balance.

we are all just one thing: players

nobody obligates anyone to macro and play JUST when a character is maxed up, just play...

ofc i'm not saying that you should months to max up your character, but imho it's stupid if that takes a few days.

 

[Archiel]

So I'm not even talking about "make it fun" I'm talking about "don't make people do it if they don't find it fun"

A PvPer should NEVER have to macro or do PVE to get better at PvP.

But if the trading system is good and gathering crafting are considered grindy by some and fun by others that's fine. We can all opt out of those systems if we want.

That's the balance.

Would you have them spawn in with full gear? Some people don't find it fun getting mats or gold to gear themselves but it's part of the progression of the game.
If a PvPer wants to level up without pve they can continually spar with friends, it might not be the fastest way buy it is an option.

 

[Woody]

Would you have them spawn in with full gear? Some people don't find it fun getting mats or gold to gear themselves but it's part of the progression of the game.
If a PvPer wants to level up without pve they can continually spar with friends, it might not be the fastest way buy it is an option.

Without anti-macro systems, may indeed be the fastest way (unless they lower exp gained off other players I guess)

 

[Kaemik]

Would you have them spawn in with full gear? Some people don't find it fun getting mats or gold to gear themselves but it's part of the progression of the game.
If a PvPer wants to level up without pve they can continually spar with friends, it might not be the fastest way buy it is an option.

If you win 50%+ of your fights PvPing generates more gear than it loses you. If you lose more than you win, you can get a decent set for a few gold.

A day to become PvP viable or a week to fully max everything is fine.

Farming bandits a few hours to make gold for hours and hours of PvP is fine.

If I'm grinding for more than a week I will enjoy the game a lot less and keep in mind that isn't "Part of the progression of the game". Right now leveling is fast. People ask asking for it to be CHANGED to be more grindy. I'm saying no, an MMO with a low grind is a rare gem. Many people are likely here BECAUSE of the lack of grind. I know in Crowfall the grindier they made it the more the community lost interest.

 

[Kuroi]

If you win 50%+ of your fights PvPing generates more gear than it loses you. If you lose more than you win, you can get a decent set for a few gold.

A day to become PvP viable or a week to fully max everything is fine.

Farming bandits a few hours to make gold for hours and hours of PvP is fine.

If I'm grinding for more than a week I will enjoy the game a lot less and keep in mind that isn't "Part of the progression of the game". Right now leveling is fast. People ask asking for it to be CHANGED to be more grindy. I'm saying no, an MMO with a low grind is a rare gem. Many people are likely here BECAUSE of the lack of grind. I know in Crowfall the grindier they made it the more the community lost interest.

what does even "pvp viable" mean?

is that like "having all skills at 80" ?

if it's something around that, it's something that players decide, if EVERYONE fights with skills at 30, they are all on the same boat

you want better skills? just train

this is not chivalry or any other game where you login and you're ready to go around and fight people at max skills

albion online is grindy as fk yet people play it, A LOT of people play it

 

[Kaemik]

this is not chivalry or any other game where you login and you're read to go around and fight people at max skills

Actually it is prettymuch. You can fully max your build in a week. And that's how it should stay. Not become some no skill grindfest like ArcheAge or Runescape.

Stop acting like the way you want it is the way the game is supposed to be. YOU'RE the one lobbying to have things changed.

We're being told things will be 100 times faster. That's fine, I'll have 70% of my skills to 100 by the time I wake up on day 2 of release (yay macros). This thread is asking for things to take 10,000 times longer. That's not fine.

 

[Kuroi]

Actually it is prettymuch. You can fully max your build in a week. And that's how it should stay. Not become some no skill grindfest like ArcheAge or Runescape.

Stop acting like the way you want it is the way the game is supposed to be. YOU'RE the one lobbying to have things changed.

We're being told things will be 100 times faster. That's fine, I'll have 70% of my skills to 100 by the time I wake up on day 2 of release (yay macros). This thread is asking for things to take 10,000 times longer. That's not fine.

imho macroing shouldn't be allowed, it's unfair towards people who can't leave their pc on all the time, i never macroed even tho i could have done it

yeah 10k sounds too much indeed

 

[Archiel]

Actually it is prettymuch. You can fully max your build in a week. And that's how it should stay. Not become some no skill grindfest like ArcheAge or Runescape.

Stop acting like the way you want it is the way the game is supposed to be. YOU'RE the one lobbying to have things changed.

We're being told things will be 100 times faster. That's fine, I'll have 70% of my skills to 100 by the time I wake up on day 2 of release (yay macros). This thread is asking for things to take 10,000 times longer. That's not fine.

My interpretation was that it is sped up for stresstest/Beta, will go back similar to MO1 when persistence hit and some players want it to stay how it is for testing phase.
In MO1 with a serious grind you could be combat ready in 1-2 days, a more casual grind would see you combat ready in a week, players that are still learning the game would be done in a month, thats pretty fast

 

[Xunila]

yeah 10k sounds too much indeed

The guy who started this thread with 10k title already changed it to 100 because the 10k are wrong.

 

[Woody]

Actually it is prettymuch. You can fully max your build in a week. And that's how it should stay. Not become some no skill grindfest like ArcheAge or Runescape.

Stop acting like the way you want it is the way the game is supposed to be. YOU'RE the one lobbying to have things changed.

We're being told things will be 100 times faster. That's fine, I'll have 70% of my skills to 100 by the time I wake up on day 2 of release (yay macros). This thread is asking for things to take 10,000 times longer. That's not fine.

This thread isn't asking for it to take that long and in the first instance was pointed out by mistake due to the strange way they've implemented 100x rates.

As it's been mentioned, we still don't know if the experience required per level is going to follow a linear or exponential trend, so we still don't have the full picture yet as to how long it will take to level compared to now.

 

[Kaemik]

imho macroing shouldn't be allowed, it's unfair towards people who can't leave their pc on all the time, i never macroed even tho i could have done it

yeah 10k sounds too much indeed

I think they need to create a system where it isn't possible (or at least not easy like it is now) as if it's possible it will happen whether they like it or not, but until they officially announce we can't, I am doing it for sure. I took the honorable road in Darkfall.

Never again. Did nothing but handicap myself.

 

[BongRips]

If the focus of Runescape was PvP I never would have played it. Same for Wurm actually.

The difference between a fun grind and a bad grind is this:

A fun grind isn't a grind. It is a reward for doing something fun by getting better at it. This is why I didn't mind grinding fine carpentry in Wurm Online. My mentality was "Lets go around and do jobs for people" and then by doing a lot of jobs I got good. Good enough I was a top player in my chosen profession.

A bad grind is when you need to do something you don't want to do in order to get to something you consider more fun. In ArcheAge I always wanted to be out PvPing, but due to the endless grind I was trading, doing dallies etc. 95% of the time to feel competitive. The sad part is I actually enjoyed trading but feeling forced to do it when I wanted to be PvPing ruined it for me.

This is why EVERY grind that stands between a player and being viable at PVP is ALWAYS a bad grind. Because at least for me, if there is an obstacle between me and 100% competitiveness I focus HARD on getting it done until it is done.

This is literally what I posted for MO. I level up my characters by going to GYs and fighting/butchering mobs. It's actually pretty easy going and fun. In your own definition this is a good grind.

Just because people "skip" this by macroing doesn't make the system in place bad.

 

[Kaemik]

Why do people skip a combat grind by macroing?

Because they want to be stronger at PvP faster.

Why do people want to be stronger at PvP faster?

Because PvP is the point of the game and a directly competitive activity and they want to be doing that instead of PVEing.

That's great you enjoy PVEing to get competitive. I personally don't, and I know I'm far from alone in that.

ANY grind between me and the ability to hit harder with a sword, run faster, gain more health etc. I'm going to treat like this:

All grinds that stand between PvPers and PvP stats are bad grinds. They're bearable in games like Mortal Online only because they are over quickly. And the fact they are over quickly are why people like me are here at all.

If grinding for PvP stats was something I find fun I never would have quit ArcheAge.

I'll stop to smell the roses when it comes to skills that don't directly help determine if I win or lose fights.

 

[Woody]

I think they need to create a system where it isn't possible (or at least not easy like it is now) as if it's possible it will happen whether they like it or not, but until they officially announce we can't, I am doing it for sure. I took the honorable road in Darkfall.

Never again. Did nothing but handicap myself.

Taking leveling a melee skill e.g. swords right now (we currently get 9 exp per swing) with the information we have in beta:

Flat/linear (no incremental scale between levels)
Assuming a flat scale based off the current 45000exp cap to get from 1-100 (though the tooltip shows 60000exp )

45000exp * 100 levels = 4500000exp
4500000exp / 9exp = 500000 swings
2sec * 500000 swings = 1000000 seconds (We can roughly swing and hit someone with a macro every 2 seconds)
1000000 seconds / 60 = 16666.66 minutes
16666 minutes / 60 = 277 hours
277 hours / 24 = 11.5 days

Because it would feel bad going from level 1-2 the same amount of time at 99-100, lets check out exponential.

Exponential
Starting at 3000exp at level 1-2 and 45000 at level 99-100 (using the beta example for the cap) and so a total exp pool of roughly 1559518 exp required to max out

1559518exp / 9exp = 173280 swings
2 sec * 173280 swings = 346560 seconds
346560 / 60 = 5776 minutes
5776 / 60 = 96 hours
96 / 24 = 4 days

A Linear Growth model between 3000-45000 ends up around 6 days.


Does this seem fair to level up sword skill from 1-100 macro'd?

 

[Grasthard]

Leveling a pvp capable character in MO1 was not too bad of a grind. Mounted stuff took a little bit longer but I always believed the real grind was the crafting skills. Foot fighters were always the easiest to level imo. Hopefully MO2 isn't a huge grind to level a character pvp wise but we won't know until persistence.

not really. with 3k wood you could max any crafting skill. the grind was making the good mats for them



ps: if you want an exponential system, then you need to remove the skill point cap. the more skills you learn the more it takes to learn new ones. but not both, it would just be a punishment to players.

skilling up is just a small part of the game imo. if you take too much time for it the grind will exhaust people

 

[Woody]

if you want an exponential system, then you need to remove the skill point cap. the more skills you learn the more it takes to learn new ones. but not both, it would just be a punishment to players.

skilling up is just a small part of the game imo. if you take too much time for it the grind will exhaust people

I'm not suggesting it, more so trying to anticipate what it might be. It could be linear or exponential, who knows.

I'm talking exponential exp cap per level, per skill, not across all skills. If you look in game now, you'll see each skill has an experience bar and the tooltip reads, the amount of exp required to reach the next level. We can see the experience caps are varying but some are 45000, 60000, 75000 even 120000. Right now we're not using the EXP system in beta. All they've done is make it feel like we're getting 100x the exp gains by making it so only 1 exp bar = 100 levels. In live this will be 100 exp bars = 100 levels e.g 1x speed. Therefore, the experience required per level will either be linear or exponential.

In all likelihood, like every other game in existence it will be exponential.

The reason for this is you can balance out your low-mid levels while giving challenge at the higher levels to reach max. This also helps to close any power gains that are given linearly across all levels, by making it quick at the low-mid levels to close the gap on those other players, who are progressing into the high levels. See https://www.mortalonline2.com/forums/attachments/1618131176367-png.1648/

 

[Papito]

Curious if any new information about this. Not interested in bloodwalling but same time do not want instant leveling

 

[Ulysses]

It's an MMO, getting your character stronger is part of the journey so some sort of grind is appropriate. This is not COD where you can instantly fight.

 

[Woody]

Curious if any new information about this. Not interested in bloodwalling but same time do not want instant leveling

Attributes, Clade EXP and Skill gain will be 100x slower. They've fixed a number of issues around levelling speeds that were confusing shortly after the stress test. They've also fixed the exp bar to represent the amount of exp required to gain 1 level.

As of now, you can fairly safely gauge the rate of levelling ahead of persistent release, by reducing the current exp amounts you're receiving by 100x for the same action.