I keep hearing Henrik saying "penalities for murderers".

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
1,718
1,328
113
I'm fine with harsher penalties for murdering randoms. The issue is majority of people aren't randoms. You will run into a guy who you literally fought the same day, you both have the intention of fighting again, but if you land the first hit and win the fight, you get the murder count. In this case, the winner is always punished. Its a dogshit system.

Going and killing actual random players in the graveyard, or the few that are actually roaming about Nave, yeah punish me if you want. Then I need to decide if the punishment is worth the kill. We've never had to really do that in MO history, its usually always worth it.

They need to come up with a solution that prevents what I said in the first paragraph from happening. Maybe that can be built into the guild system somehow, or the game knows who you've been fighting recently, I dont know.

I think there is a solution that makes most people satisfied. I know there are some out there who say "get good and learn to fight back". While I may agree with that, I want this game to be as populated as it can be. In MO1 we had very interesting politics, with guilds full of only traders and/or roleplayers whose main focus wasn't the PvP. For me personally, even though I consider PvP in the game to be inevitable, having people who play for different reasons make the community and world feel more alive and interesting. If there is a way we can create a better murder system (there is) that makes it better for them, while not interfering with my desire for meaningful PvP then it should be done. I do know there can easily be loopholes with alt accounts, which is arguably the reason for making a system actually work well so difficult.

Oh I forgot, those trader/rp guilds that I mentioned being in MO1, they all quit because there was zero incentive NOT to murder anything you saw. At one point we have a nearly an even split of red/blue guilds. As time went on, you maybe had 10% blue guilds and everyone else RPK. Which was fine for the PvP crowd, but politics got boring as fuck and the world just felt dead.

And for the record, I've always ran an RPK guild. So I'm not just another dweeb being completely biased toward his own playstyle. I want what I think is best for the game overall.
List of things MO2 does better than MO1

Duels
1v2's
Some QOL

List complete
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
762
944
93
List of things MO2 does better than MO1

Duels
1v2's
Some QOL

List complete
I'm not a duelist, but I'd disagree with that part. Duels in MO2 are so cringe and boring to watch. I'd much rather the fast pace prediction abusing duels of MO1. Parry trading while getting healed from passive regen is a real snoozer.
 

Gladiator

Active member
Apr 26, 2022
97
118
33
I'm not a duelist, but I'd disagree with that part. Duels in MO2 are so cringe and boring to watch. I'd much rather the fast pace prediction abusing duels of MO1. Parry trading while getting healed from passive regen is a real snoozer.
The problem in MO2 is that there is no way to ParryBreak. Therefor, when fighting an oponent of equal skill, the fight can literally take as long as it takes for your sword to break. A good example of sword fighting in games is Chivalry 2. It has first person, like MO2, it has directional attacks, like MO2, it has a parry mechanic, like MO2. What does it do differently? There is a "KICK" button. If the other guy is hoddling up in a turtle shell, you kick and stick him briefly, getting a free hit in.

In MO2 dueling, the advantage lies with the defender. Because, right after a parry, your swing does not need to be charged, meaning that, if somebody does not want to fight you, is too afraid to fight you, or is simply way too defensive by nature, you generally cannot kill him :D . You're right, it's boring as crap
 

Rahz

Member
Jul 19, 2022
92
36
18
There is just no point in doing anything but griefing/ RPK in this game since it's always the fastest/easiest option. Red nametags would be a great start to kick those people out of blue cities. Another problem is the "base building" part and the map-layout in general. You can't leave Meduli/Tindrem/MorinKhur without running by 3 or 4 strongholds of known RPK-guilds. This is because of chokepoints in the map-layout and because somehow the blue cities don't seem to care about bandit camps a few meters out of the gates. Also every ressource/spawn/whatever that is kinda accessible from those cities is camped by PvP-guilds. Wanna farm Calx so you can craft steel and fight back? Naah Calx is camped,(west of MK with literally about 20-30 houses+ 3 strongholds) so you may try it at 6 in the morning.
It could all be easily fixed by color coding guilds and not allowing red guilds to build near blue cities. I mean why should the authorities give known terrorists permission to build a house on their land?
 

finegamingconnoisseur

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
1,089
1,485
113
www.youtube.com
That is the most fair solution !
I would agree with that.

You know... unfortunately, ive seen this before !
It happened on all the old good games... Ultima Online, Darkfall Online, Mortal Online 1... Always the same story : The moment people start complaining too much about PKs and the developers decide to make a small change to please these "criers", the game DIES !
It happened, and I guarantee you : Will happen in MO2.

Im extracting the maximum of fun I can have on this game now because I know what is coming...

They will destroy this game when they start messing around with the murder system.
Mark my words !
I highly doubt that SV would ever allow Trammel in MO2. If they had wanted to cater to the 'wrong' crowd, they've missed every opportunity to date.

Instead, what seems more likely is that they will find a way to ease new players into the game without taking away from its hardcore PvP edge.
 

manure

Active member
May 7, 2022
268
184
43
I highly doubt that SV would ever allow Trammel in MO2..

Well... It wouldnt surprise me if they did.
We already had a small sample...
Dont you remember what they did to Meduli ?? They made the whole area a safer place than Haven !
Guards everywhere OUTSIDE, far away from town... Jesus, there are even guards protecting THE GRAVEYARD !!!! :poop::sick:

Im sorry, but if thats not a step in direction to Trammel, I dont know what is !
 

Yeonan

Member
Nov 28, 2020
73
56
18
If they want to reduce greifing without killing pvp, they can increase the penalties for killing blues but at the same time let people flag themselves as "red".

Being red let's you get glory/prom from killing other reds, but not blues.

Problem solved. People have incentive to be red and less incentive to kill blues.

That might be the best idea in the history of ideas, maybe ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MolagAmur

finegamingconnoisseur

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
1,089
1,485
113
www.youtube.com
Well... It wouldnt surprise me if they did.
We already had a small sample...
Dont you remember what they did to Meduli ?? They made the whole area a safer place than Haven !
Guards everywhere OUTSIDE, far away from town... Jesus, there are even guards protecting THE GRAVEYARD !!!! :poop::sick:

Im sorry, but if thats not a step in direction to Trammel, I dont know what is !
Haven is a whole different level, you can't even attack each other unless through a duel. You can't even push someone on Haven.

I will visit Meduli one of these days and see for myself. I can imagine why there might be guards near the graveyard as it's literally a stone's throw from Meduli itself.
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
762
944
93
If they want to reduce greifing without killing pvp, they can increase the penalties for killing blues but at the same time let people flag themselves as "red".

Being red let's you get glory/prom from killing other reds, but not blues.

Problem solved. People have incentive to be red and less incentive to kill blues.

That might be the best idea in the history of ideas, maybe ever.
Thats not a bad idea. It can be expanded on, but thats a start. And once you flag you can't unflag. Or at least there needs to be a 30 day cooldown or something.

I wouldn't even be opposed to this being something a guild leader decides on for the entire guild as well. On the flip side though, there should be more incentive to be blue. If they had proper guild labels, they could offer incentives. Like what you said with red guilds for example, then trader guilds can benefit being labeled as a trader guild (i'll let a trader input their thought on what that should be), anti-pk guilds can get something, etc.

We also talked about this quite a bit with MO1 and all those incentives being tied to in-game religion. Though, I can't remember if that would be lore-friendly or not.
 

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
1,080
977
113
Being red let's you get glory/prom from killing other reds, but not blues.
This stuff never works. People will just farm red guild mates, allied players or just alts and cheese the whole system.

Flagging yourself would work as a way to disallow other to give you a murder count. However there needs to be a big cooldown after you change your flag. No quick flag swapping just when its convenient for you. You go red and you have to commit to staying red for a few hours of ingame time( no logging off to burn red time).
 
Last edited:

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
1,718
1,328
113
We had a good system where you could just murder people in town if they were red. That shit was tight. but yeah community kilt it like everything else.
 

korteks

Member
Feb 16, 2022
30
17
8
part of the problem, unfortunately, is that the combat mechanics provide no means of turning the tables on an attacker or attackers. And the advantage of being the attacker is ridiculously huge. The best you can hope for is maybe escaping, if you have a fast build.

Someone said "why don't you start attacking first and stop being the victim" and that's a valid response. It's the most logical response. In fact it's incredibly insightful; this game really only has 2 playstyles. Prey or predator. And that's why "play how you like" is pretty horseshit. I'm not interested in riding around looking for players to attack.Nor am I interested in being fodder for the attackers. But those are the choices.

If anything my playstyle is to look for people to help out. It's just more fun for everyone that way. Which is why this game was clearly not designed for someone like me. Which is a shame, because it almost is. But not quite.

I honestly don't know why the sweaty pvp crowd in MO2 is even here. Real PvP happens on a level playing field, which is nigh impossible to arrange organically in an open world. Most of the times I've been killed, I can't imagine it was very fun or exciting for my killers, if they were in fact legit PvP gamers looking for a challenge. I think a lot of them are just closet sociopaths looking for a quick thrill tbh. Which is why I don't even fight back if it's clear that i have no chance. I just stand there and let them have their fun. It's so stupid lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Callenmore and Rahz

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
1,080
977
113
Pretty simple guys. Henrik was a big fan of ganking in UO. He said it himself that he used to be an RPK, and very much enjoyed that kind of playstyle. So now he has made a game that caters to that type of crowd. There is no surprise that all the vets of MO like very much to gank people.

Its got nothing to do with challenging or fair pvp. Its just ganking. Its about making sure the odds are all in your favour and then ruining someones day and taking their stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: korteks

korteks

Member
Feb 16, 2022
30
17
8
hate to agree but that is exactly how the game feels, and it really is a shame, because they're just shooting themselves in the foot.

you can make a living breathing immersive world that doesn't require a significant portion of the playerbase to have a bad time in order to facilitate fun for the 'real' players

when you really think about it, if you aren't playing this game to RPK, then you are basically just RPing as an npc for the sweaties to kill, and they are fully aware of it.

how did fucking Albion figure this shit out, and MO2 still can't get it right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rahz

Esproc

New member
Jan 21, 2022
19
14
3
Meduli
We had a good system where you could just murder people in town if they were red. That shit was tight. but yeah community kilt it like everything else.
This is honestly the best way to fix the system. Blues should not go crim for attacking murderers. Lets the blues police the towns.

If that's too punishing, murderers should stay local grey to the people they murdered for 24 hours. This would make things more interesting for sure.

Lawless zones are also needed.
 

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
1,080
977
113
This is honestly the best way to fix the system.



Thats why it was taken out, too good of an idea. SV doesnt allow for good ideas to be implemented, even by mistake.
Lawless zones already exist. The MC reporting rarely works across nodelines. Any zone thats a few nodelines from a priest is pretty much lawless.
 
Last edited:

lennox

New member
May 7, 2023
1
0
1
In more then one stream recently Henrik has brought this up but I feel like he's just grifting or something. There is no way that it hasn't been brought up before that murderers can masquerade as blue until they want to attack.

A murderer is blue until he attacks someone and that allows him to always have first strike on unsuspecting victims. First strike is a huge advantage in this game. It also prevents his victims from retaliating after being killed by them because they will be blue again by the time the victim respawns.

Most open world pvp games(nearly all of them) have a criminal system. Where the criminal is flagged to alert everyone around them that they are a criminal. I know that you know this so when you say "consequences" I feel like you're just grifting at this point because you know that I know that you know that the solution to criminal consequence is very simple, in-your-face and abundantly clear - A global criminal flag. At least be honest and say that Mortal will take a griefers paradise approach moving forward/future balance changes/patches as to not confuse any immigrants from EVE or Albion or something.
They dont need immersion breaking penalties for murderers. They need actual PvP balance. Or, at least an attempt at it.

There is very little punishment for wearing full plate armor on body and horse. You can just run people down and then infinitely jump and spin like an idiot. This game has so much potential, but the PvP and resource allocation is completely lazy
 

buffalo

New member
Dec 3, 2022
16
1
3
pretty much sums up all of MO1-2 history. Their balance and pvp department is dogshit.
Pvp in mo1 wasn't objectively bad in an overall and I really don't get why this is the take. To then roll this fight system into minor issues of the prior seems untenable.

At a basic overview, game is 4 to 5x times bigger with near same dungeons and same amount of exits to towns and 10x map. I think that seems very very very contradictory to original map which was pretty amicable. Most mo2 vets I've seen that claim to have played mo1 must never have sat down at mo1 and decided to make an effort for more than like a few weeks to grind because people I dealt with knew how to get like a half stack of pansar scale in a matter of a day which was plenty good. Plenty of sufficient armor to deal with mpst meta armor even kill people in cronite (with the combat melee etc balance). That goes also to speak about value of pansar scales. Missing from the meta rn also but it's an aside but I'll give the shoutout regardless. Why not include the meta tier armor that helped kill better players etc.

I'm speaking resource allocation and value here.
 
Last edited: