Final thoughts on Mage before the Testing phase is over and it all counts

[billbonty]

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Bill wears this stuff then complains about archery which on foot is the most gimped playstyle. Like Im farming bandits solo as a mage and its ok, A bit slow. Im PvPing on mage

Yeah like what other people said thursar is a weak race. Diffidently not meta. Human is the weaker in PvP of the 4 races with oghs being busted with abilities and veela being the fastest which makes it the best for a lot of people.

As a mage I am faster then any thursar and can defeat all their damage with parries. The thursar will stam out compared to my 95 dex veela mage. If I get the jump on the thursar then I win. If I dont then I kite untill I can gain distance. They either give up or I get enough distance to cast a spell as I regain stamina.

Thursars are so bad I dont even want to heal them, they just soak up so much damage that healing them takes so much mana that can be saved for Tlashes or healing other players. Thursars cant dive mages so idk why a mage would whine about them, they will just get tlashed by 3 different mages and if he lives he wont have the speed to peel out of the back line.

Ecumanical is so strong and more schools are to come.

The fact that you used that picture as your poster child for “oh look what he’s wearing” is honestly ridiculous. My placoid lore wasn’t even 100 and I was using that armor because it looked nice and was literally a meme. If I’m actually concerned about my health I’m using Kallardian padded horned scale silk 100% and getting 35-39 out of every defensive stat. It helps a ton in combat.

Melee also isn’t really the problem. I will take a shield into battle every time for parries and blocks. What’s frustrating for balance and the only real issue I have is that archers don’t get interrupted like we do when taking damage. Making them get interrupted from damage 20-50% of the time would be a huge change for balance and would likely break the MA gank meta. This change would also mean purify potions would be more necessary in the future and the thursar clade gift to purify gets more widely used.

Do I think mages need a buff directly? Maybe not. They are currently balanced around magic schools not ingame which is a problem, but long term balance is the goal here.

I do not have issues as a mage, but I also can’t solo anything I can’t kill before it hits me unless I stay mounted the whole time or bug it out like Risars. Moment I have to try blocking, I’m stuck there until I die or mount up and ride away.

My guild isn’t having any issues fighting and I’m not just “complaining” about being weak or something else being strong like most posts are nowadays. I just want there to be a little more balance and one change at a time is the way to go.

 

[Apsalar]

A mage without 100 blocking shouldn't allow mellee vs a hammer to happen. I mean, what do you waste points on?

I guess you mean hybrid without 100 blocking? For that Yes. But for Pure sheevra 31 years dex MAGE not hybrid mage:



Please tell me what is a waste of point in this mage? You could easily remove taming and creature control but then you need to farm money to get a Mount instead of Just going to spawn. And we still speak about mage, not hybrid. And when they will add other magic schools then mage is even more screwed. And if you say to remove the ether Lore for the sake of blocking then its not a full mage. Its a gimped hybrid that def could use a sword or dagger.

There are few extremely good mages in MO2 but do not judge whole class by few extreme examples, its unhealthy for the game. If you can farm risar on mage, well done. 95% of the player base cant do that. Even on foot fighters.

 

[Tashka]

I guess you mean hybrid without 100 blocking? For that Yes. But for Pure sheevra 31 years dex MAGE not hybrid mage:
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Please tell me what is a waste of point in this mage? You could easily remove taming and creature control but then you need to farm money to get a Mount instead of Just going to spawn. And we still speak about mage, not hybrid. And when they will add other magic schools then mage is even more screwed. And if you say to remove the ether Lore for the sake of blocking then its not a full mage. Its a gimped hybrid that def could use a sword or dagger.

There are few extremely good mages in MO2 but do not judge whole class by few extreme examples, its unhealthy for the game. If you can farm risar on mage, well done. 95% of the player base cant do that. Even on foot fighters.

So what i see here is 2 magic schools, MM, 51 taming when you only really need 40, 31 creature control when you only really need 16, endurance+survival. I mean, you have to make SOME sacrifices and if you want it all but willing to sacrifice blocking, well, getting hit for 20 damage through parries is what you get. You could sacrifice 30 points from controlled riding and 30 from MM and it will still be enough to survive a single MA or maybe even 2 if they are bad, take 15 points from creaure control and another 11 from taming, cut down on swimming a bit (lower both to 50), and maybe wear a bit more lightweight armor so a few points from armor training. That is if you REALLY need the swimming, otherwise you can keep all of the above and still have 100 blocking.

 

[Emdash]

A mage without 100 blocking shouldn't allow mellee vs a hammer to happen. I mean, what do you waste points on?

if mages are taking 100 blocking, I'm gonna pull out the previously used "I think this ends our discussion" as for how stupid parry is

Edit: still spamming: increase damage across the board, including thru parry. Everything except mage 'true dmg' and it'll balance out once you find the right numbers.

 

[Kaemik]

A mage without 100 blocking shouldn't allow mellee vs a hammer to happen. I mean, what do you waste points on?

I'd agree with this. Any mage build I make that isn't alvarin or mount bound has 100 blocking these days. Though of course a mage in melee with 100 blocking is just slowly dying if they aren't a dagger mage (Which is really just a soft hybrid TBH). So the point is to buy you time if your backline gets dived or buy time for your pet to kill them on a beastmaster. There is literally no way to fight back and still block otherwise.

 

[Kaemik]

Please tell me what is a waste of point in this mage? You could easily remove taming and creature control but then you need to farm money to get a Mount instead of Just going to spawn.

My main build can control horses 4 at a time. Just buy your pets if you aren't a dominator or full tamer. It's more efficient.

 

[Tzone]

Show me a mage with 100 blocking.
Risar hammer Molarium/Horned scales/ Steel head. Hits on Shield with 20 blunt resistance.
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Without shield, just dagger.

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I think this ends our discussion?

Why a mage would not have blocking? You have so many points to spend I have extra points. Probably why these people think mage is bad because they dont know how to build a character. I dont even need blocking because you can just out run every one. Blocking is just for those few stout veelas diving and keeping still while your team peels so you dont run away from your group.

I even have defensive stance.

 

[Emdash]

Why a mage would not have blocking? You have so many points to spend I have extra points. Probably why these people think mage is bad because they dont know how to build a character. I dont even need blocking because you can just out run every one. Blocking is just for those few stout veelas diving and keeping still while your team peels so you dont run away from your group.

I even have defensive stance.

dstance is logical cuz arrows tho (works on arrows, right?), and you're prolly gonna get hit SOMETIME.

Mage blocking offends my soul.

But as I've said about balance. Everything being equal, it's balanced because people are gonna do what works best... no matter how fucky it seems.

That and if mage has extra points to spend, perhaps that should be addressed as well!

 

[Tzone]

dstance is logical cuz arrows tho (works on arrows, right?), and you're prolly gonna get hit SOMETIME.

Mage blocking offends my soul.

But as I've said about balance. Everything being equal, it's balanced because people are gonna do what works best... no matter how fucky it seems.

That and if mage has extra points to spend, perhaps that should be addressed as well!

The only people to have hit me with a arrow are russians as they have high ping and poor internet which makes people appear to stand still longer because the client of the player they are shooting at takes time to send the info that they moved to the server. And then the server takes time to send the packet to the client who is shooting. There for if you stand still other players see you staying still longer then you actually still.

But all that just to say a higher ping player has a easier time to shoot me. When they do all I have to do is cast heal like 2 to 3 times. Like I had it happen to me while naked and all I did was pop a bandage and then jump cast a heal. Or just healed behind a tree.

Mages blocking is fine the issue is that mages can not be blocked.

 

[Emdash]

Mages blocking is fine the issue is that mages can not be blocked.

I wonder. I mean agree on latter, but if we're not adding in spell blocks (which would make the game even more stupid w/ low dps imo), there has to be a way to balance out unblockable true dmg. Mage spike was always a thing, and range spike is a thing in any team pvp game, add in MO where you can have infinity people... then yea, but being able to tear up people in melee and being able to tear up mages when you reach them seems to be a smarter solution. it's skill based, too, cuz the perfection of your swing arc affects your dmg. With everyone's health moving more rapidly, mage would do better to go back to their role of doing what other classes can't... heal, purify, corrupt. My 2c. Not that it's not legit to finish someone off w/ a spell as they run away tho.

 

[Belegar]

With everyone's health moving more rapidly, mage would do better to go back to their role of doing what other classes can't... heal, purify, corrupt. My 2c. Not that it's not legit to finish someone off w/ a spell as they run away tho.

Another player that thinks mages should just be healers, not actually a mage.

That and if mage has extra points to spend, perhaps that should be addressed as well!

Please dont take this into consideration, Tzone is just super good mage that has no problems and solo rolls bandits and rizars.

 

[AssassinOTL]

Mages don't have nearly as many free points as Fighters, it takes literally 100 Points to get your weapon to out DPS most if not all other classes, and the other stuff is peripheral minute things for feint, blocking that you can do with large high strength weapons. and pump up stam even more, i think that needs to be addressed, where as mages take a minimum of Vitalism, Mana regen Mental training, Mental focus, Concentration, Mental offense, Magic schools, and 100-300 points per magic school and now 100 in Mounted Magery that's 800 at max action points without Mounted Magery so 900\1100

so whoever says that mages have extra points i'll hit you with the legendary Free Horses quote "do you often talk about things you know nothing about?" -FreeHorses 2022

 

[Tashka]

Mages don't have nearly as many free points as Fighters, it takes literally 100 Points to get your weapon to out DPS most if not all other classes, and the other stuff is peripheral minute things for feint, blocking that you can do with large high strength weapons. and pump up stam even more, i think that needs to be addressed, where as mages take a minimum of Vitalism, Mana regen Mental training, Mental focus, Concentration, Mental offense, Magic schools, and 100-300 points per magic school and now 100 in Mounted Magery that's 800 at max action points without Mounted Magery so 900\1100

so whoever says that mages have extra points i'll hit you with the legendary Free Horses quote "do you always talk about things you have no clue about?" -FreeHorses 2022

What? mental focus secondary, mana regen secondary, concentration secondary, magic schools itself secondary. Basically you need mental training, mental offense, vitalism, and whatever magic schools you need. For a mellee to be competitive you need a mellee skill, armor training, heavy armor training, blocking, anatomy, archery to have any chance vs mounteds, and you better have either agressive or defensive stance or better yet both. People didn't realize how strong potion utilization yet, but it will become mandatory too at some point i think.

 

[AssassinOTL]

What? mental focus secondary, mana regen secondary, concentration secondary, magic schools itself secondary. Basically you need mental training, mental offense, vitalism, and whatever magic schools you need. For a mellee to be competitive you need a mellee skill, armor training, heavy armor training, blocking, anatomy, archery to have any chance vs mounteds, and you better have either agressive or defensive stance or better yet both. People didn't realize how strong potion utilization yet, but it will become mandatory too at some point i think.

we gave a slow one here, did you check your numbers? i didnt count the secondaries. check again and add your numbers up. i think i did Omit Dom in my list but it adds up dom > MM

and i saw a naked fighter beat a prominent member a few days ago naked in a 1v1 tournament with his Worn shortie. ya just need 100 points maybe 200 to pull something like that off

why do you think there were tears so the poor noobs have a 250 dura starter sword

i think they should look into a free cast spell for starting mages, they are useless on resing, so they can keep up with Melee that rez with no cost and still are effective

 

[Tashka]

we gave a slow one here, did you check your numbers? i didnt count the secondaries. check again and add your numbers up. i think i did Omit Dom in my list but it adds up dom > MM

and i saw a naked fighter beat a prominent member a few days ago naked in a 1v1 tournament with his Worn shortie. ya just need 100 points maybe 200 to pull something like that off

why do you think there were tears so the poor noobs have a 250 dura starter sword

The dude was amazing and most people can't do that. And anyway with a better sword he'd probably beat they guy without any points in swords, doesn't mean it's or armor training or whatever is not necessary.

I rerolled into dagger mage recently and had more luxury points left than i had being a mellee dagger. Yes just one magic school but both stances, blocking, mounted magery at 100 (had to lower cr/mounted archery to 80 before). Not needing armor training/heavy armor training/archery/anatomy is huge. I don't get it how a full mage can lack skill points.

 

[AssassinOTL]

The dude was amazing and most people can't do that. And anyway with a better sword he'd probably beat they guy without any points in swords, doesn't mean it's or armor training or whatever is not necessary.

I rerolled into dagger mage recently and had more luxury points left than i had being a mellee dagger. Yes just one magic school but both stances, blocking, mounted magery at 100 (had to lower cr/mounted archery to 80 before). Not needing armor training/heavy armor training/archery/anatomy is huge. I don't get it how a full mage can lack skill points.

Yeah i can see that but as stated above that's more of a hybrid build and not a full mage build and i forgot controlled riding, seems like MM is tied to it so that's another 100 points now

mage peripherals are usually swimming so that's all your points for the most part

 

[Emdash]

Another player that thinks mages should just be healers, not actually a mage.


Please dont take this into consideration, Tzone is just super good mage that has no problems and solo rolls bandits and rizars.

No, I don't. I think they should have to use their whole toolkit. In games when you are capable of healing and roll offense, people will bitch you out for playing offense. That's just the way it is. You have to do some 'bending' for the good of the team. There will be times and instances when you use your offensive prowess, but it doesn't change the fact that YOU ARE THE ONLY CLASS THAT CAN HEAL OTHERS, THE ONLY CLASS THAT CAN NULLIFY HEALS, and THE ONLY CLASS WHO CAN REMOVE DEBUFFS.

You're thinking of it wrong. I mean I don't wanna just be a fighter, maybe I Could like run up behind my homie and bandage him while he is fighting? Throw a pot at him like in other games. Use HERB. No, that's not the way MO works. People aren't counting on more offense spec hybrids for heals, they are counting on people w/ mana pools and ability to save their ass w/ a greater more than one time before they are Out of Mana. haha.

If you think of your team as a DPS producing unit, the dps is being produced... and you throw out a TL or w/e, if you can mitigate more damage than that, pull off a corrupt, w/e, you are being objectively more useful. Maybe there could be an offensive school of magic, like split up ecu a bit? Make like ecu and elemental or w/e. The thing is, you do easily targeted true damage and there is a place for that, but you also are the only healers the game has.

You should check out some vids of OP Mo1 mages and the amount of crazy shit they are doing to keep everyone alive. The truth is that there just isn't that much time for anything else when the going gets tough, when there is some separation, or a break in the action, then yea you can poke w/ spells.

I mean how many times, as a mage in MO2, have you had to choose between which person lives, or which person might have more chance of survival, more value to your team, and you have to make that decision split second in a group of people who might target switch to you at any moment. That's why magery is hard. Everyone is so caught up on how easy it is to target spells (supposedly, loool I always failed hard at it in mo1, but I think they changed how it worked), but the actual mage play is decision making and management. I have a feeling you prol know, but go back and check out some of those old MO1 fights where people who were legit good magi were in action and watch how much work they are doing, then ask yourself why it's not like that anymore.

I'm not trying to pigeonhole your playstyle, but I'm saying I wonder if most mages even have to use their whole tool kit. As for soloing risars and bandits, not sure if you are being facetious or not, but any mob you can kite you can kill, if it's moving at close to human speed it's ded no matter what build you are using because the ai is the same as it has always been and you can make it turn slow corners. Shouldn't even be getting touched much.

 

[Tashka]

Yeah i can see that but as stated above that's more of a hybrid build and not a full mage build and i forgot controlled riding, seems like MM is tied to it so that's another 100 points now

mage peripherals are usually swimming so that's all your points for the most part

A hybrid actually needs more skillpoints, no? You need both mellee and magery skills after all. A minimum of dagger and agressive stance are required. Full mages don't need those, so can pick a second school and something else.

I'm more concerned about the time and resources needed to train mage skills compared to anything a footie needs.

 

[Emdash]

pretty legit MO1 magey

See it's not all healz, and having a really good team around you helps, too...

 

[Jatix]

The issue with magic in this game, is the way its designed makes it impossible to balance. Because its super op in some areas while being complete garbage in others.

Its easy to cry mage op when you get slammed by an unblockable hit that completely ignores armor and does over 50 damage. If you area outnumbered, this is pretty much certain death. Getting zerged usually ends with death in this game. but when it ignores armor and cant be blocked and doesnt use stamina, it just feels way more aids.

But in other departments mage sucks. The mana and mana regen suck so its bad at doing actual dps and just becomes a heal bot. and getting hit cancels spell cast because otherwise mages could potentially just blast people and kill them with no counter play. But because this exists once someone is close mages cant really do anything, especially in small scale if they dont have team mates to save them.

And because their dps is generally low and their main strength is the damage ignores armor and cant be blocked, they suck at pve. Because most random mobs dont have good armor and dont block.

Which ends with the current unbalancable system.