Do you want the game to wipe?
- Thread starter Gladiator
- Start date
Yeah, I think for this reason the PvP mechanics as a whole could use a rework. Drop the rep system. Beef up red towns with brokers, books, etc. full amenities... Allow reds to spawn at any priest (if they want to spawn in town and have guards called on them, so be it). Rework the bogus flag system so you can't just hide behind your blue flag to blue-block & gank while remaining blue. Basically make players choose between being a blue player that gets to play in a guard-protected town, or a red player who lives in a guardless town. This way, blues (who are no longer serial RPKers) get to routinely PvP against reds(who are serial RPKers), and reds get to PvP against literally everyone.
The reasons the current flag/MC/rep system is so garbage is that it is arbitrary and doesn't delineate anything. It gives no delineation between anyone, and the only purpose is seemingly so that people can abuse it & remain blue, or have to deal with shitty tedious penalties if they don't abuse it to remain blue.
Another option to delineate & democratize PvP so that it is approachable would be to introduce factions outside of the GvG system. Basically take the concept of GvG & wardecs and detach it from guilds so that anyone can participate (while still allowing GvG & wardecs on top of this, ofc). A much cooler option would be to make it more of a city-state based system, but that's kind of reaching as far as capabilities at SV, imo. Basically, they need something that creates a framework for why and how PvP is occurring. Currently, the game does nothing to create an understandable venue for the vast majority of people to fit in in terms of PvP aside from being prey for people who want to go for a criminal playstyle. If you want to play criminal, that's fine, you should be allowed to without taking serious hits to accessibility, but you should have to deal with being marked out as such.
Big issue MO2 has is PvP is horribly delineated. It feels completely arbitrary. This is the system:
Joe has run a lot of deliveries and has tons of rep to burn through. Jim has not, and before realizing how MO2's convoluted PvP mechanics work has dropped a bit of rep killing the blue bodyguards of someone that attacked him. Consequently, Jim has turned criminal actions off so he doesn't accidentally lose bank access. Joe walks up to Jim, talks to Jim for 30 seconds, waits until Jim turns around, ganks Jim, has a quick wank in front of Jim's loot-bag while his crim. status expires, and suffers absolutely zero consequence before banking Jim's shit in front of him in a blue town... So long as Joe watches MC timers & runs deliveries, it's like it never even happened. This is just one example of why this system is absolute dog-turd. There are many more scenarios, some of which are even more arbitrary than this. People who like to exploit these broken mechanics with flags/rep like to defend this system, but from personal experience I can 100% guarantee you that it is cancer to the new player experience and casts all PvP in MO2 in a terrible light. When I finally looked up how it worked I almost quit the game because it's that fucking bad. This system 100% needs a major overhaul. 99% of the PvP experience is someone acting like Jim, and it's just fucking boring & more or less makes the game feel like it's only designed to appeal to serial killer RPers at the expense of all other PvP.
It's a groundbreakingly stupid PvP system that's never been attempted before. The result is there is no PvP to be had for the vast majority of people who don't get off on being shitters in a persistent online video-game. Don't get me wrong, these people aren't the problem-- they should be free to gank people, the game obviously needs PC villains, but that doesn't mean the ball should perpetually be in their court as it is now and the world should be setup so criminals get the jump in pvp every time as it is now. The problem is not that people want to PK, the problem is the groundwork the game sets for how the PKing takes place.
I've played many MMOs, many feautring PvP, and some even featuring full-loot. I've never seen a game with a PvP dynamic this ill-conceived. To some extent, even those who do nothing and allow everyone to PvP everyone at all times still delineate PvP better than this system, because, however brutal, at least everyone knows what to expect from everyone else in such a system... Basically they tried to make the game less brutal by implementing some rules to PvP, which is fine on paper, but their undercooked mechanics only succeeded in making PvP feel incredibly unjust/arbitrary and easily exploitable.
People say this is a 'PvP game', but the PvP experience at the moment is one of the worst aspects MO2 has to offer. I literally have not once had a meaningful PvP experience that was not a duel. It's always completely one-sided because of the terrible mechanics implemented here. I think the system I described at the beginning of this post here, as well as having some zones (maybe dungeons and jungles, other far flung regions) that everyone is grey (except reds who always play as though they are grey) by default, would be a step in the right direction for the game and create a venue for PvP that doesn't feel like the game is deliberately trying to create an environment where being blue is completely meaningless and all PvP is just a serial-killer simulator gank.
Bottom line, people don't want to play a full-loot PvP game that has a tedious, arbitrary & ill-conceived PvP ruleset. I don't know how this is hard to understand. No full-loot PvP MMO has done PvP as poorly as MO2. In fact, I think PvP mechanics in MO2 feels like an afterthought that they never bothered to complete, which is fucking astounding considering the game features full-loot. You have to toggle a radio-button to even participate, and you have clowns running around blue with 3 blue friends who stand around them while they gank you so that if you successfully defend yourself you can take murdercounts...? If such a thing is even possible, which it is, the system is 100% not acceptable for a full loot PvP MMO. Wake up SV. This needs to be on your plate.
Last edited:
Once again, there is no "hyperinflation" in MO2. A stack of steel is worth the same today as in March.
You may come up with an example of some ultra rare item that you have seen a high price on, but this has no relevance on how the average player experiences the game when dealing with the market.
Too much gold, ye.
Trinkets are OPbusted. You posted it, but to clarify what you said, or highlight it, their value is determined by who can bid the highest. That means, more or less, they have no top value. They are not even inside of the market. Attribute points, skill points, I mean there isn't really a way to judge how much they are worth, that they are soul bound really fucks it up. If they weren't soul bound, people would be like DEY USELESS, nah but they'd go down in price a lot haha. Dudes got money from things they prol didn't have to work too hard for (in a lot of cases) and trinkets are more valuable than a keep because they CANNOT BE LOST. A spell book allows you to cast spells, a worn short lets you fight people (poorly?) but a trinket is like some OP device they stick in your body that never comes out. You just eat a stick of butter and it's cool. 3x!!
Thing about how the whole game... like the gear tho. Horses, all the same, mats... not too many, not the same but not huge differences in prots like from heavy armor of decent bone to steel. So, we got this whole world of meeeeh stuff, then we got trinkz which drop and can give you legit like 100-150 skill points and maybe like 10+ attribute points. Plus maybe some resist, mana reduction etc. And dudes are NEVER GONNA GET RID OF THOSE TRINKETS. Cuz they are never gonna find better ones, cuz they got nerfed. Unless the new skadi ones are better, which they may be.
I am not even talking about trading keeps like physical trade. I am talking those guilds folded or ceased to exist.
The economy isnt wrecked.
Gold is so easy to make legitimately it isnt even funny. I mean excluding flux farming. You can make a thousand gold a week just farming bandits, risars or sators with minimal effort. You can make five times that farming minos. You can make a thousand gold a week getting argus sponge. You can make a thousand gold a week picking flowers if you wanted.
It isnt like gold is hard to make.
Gold is so easy to make legitimately it isnt even funny. I mean excluding flux farming. You can make a thousand gold a week just farming bandits, risars or sators with minimal effort. You can make five times that farming minos. You can make a thousand gold a week getting argus sponge. You can make a thousand gold a week picking flowers if you wanted.
It isnt like gold is hard to make.
Right but if your guild folds/ceases to exist your keep isn't up for grabs. Those keeps that have changed hands were willingly traded by their old owner to a new owner.
10 weeks is 2 and a half months. How many of the people buying things for 10k gold do you think farmed sators for 2 and a half months? I'd wager less than 10%.
You can get that money faster through legit means. There are exploiters. And there are traders who didn't do anything wrong but are able to make insane amounts of money because of how much exploiters have inflated the market. The 2nd is fully legitimate. But I'm sure you must see how it's still an issue right?
Last edited:
I know me personally I have made about 25k gold and have spent about 20k of it on useless things because I could. It doesnt take much. I personally have had a 1k gold farming day and I did it in about 8 hours. It isnt like gold is that hard to make. Now that is not to say that there were or are exploits and people have done them. That is very much a fact.
But I am saying that gold is not that hard to make. I have said it since day one, gold is not the main currency, MO has always been a barter system.
NO WIPE. I grind my ass off (cant no life but I play everyday). The fact that people who dont do the same and want to wipe is annoying- The pop is small enough to better monitor those "bad apples" and over time the economy will be fine...
But to be fair- If ANYONE can name an actual MMO that benefited from wiping their servers (listing specific examples and how it helped the game thrive)- I would be open to hear that point of view (vs the crying of "he has more than me and I don't want to play because of it").
But to be fair- If ANYONE can name an actual MMO that benefited from wiping their servers (listing specific examples and how it helped the game thrive)- I would be open to hear that point of view (vs the crying of "he has more than me and I don't want to play because of it").
People saying the economy isn't wrecked because the price of steel is a constant is kind of disingenuous, since steel is one of the most sought after resources in the game & will be in supply to some extent right until the game is taken offline. In this case, obviously the constant competition will keep prices at a reasonable rate. You have to look at more niche items and the state of brokers overall to see the cracks starting to form in the economy.
The economy is way worse than it was 2+ months ago, that's for sure. Let's use the example of something less ubiquitous, like max str longbows for example, since they are common but also specific to certain builds... 2+ months ago when I started playing, there were 3-5+ pages of bows in Meduli/Tind/Fabe brokers, and you could usually source a 123 bow for around 1g, sometimes a bit more sometimes a bit less. Now, you're lucky if there is even 2 pages of bows(often there is just one, and a handful of sellers if that), and if you can find a 123 bow at all(most brokers rarely if ever have any in stock), people are selling them for 4-5g or more...
I think that's a pretty good indicator that the economy is not in a great state. Basically the amount of gold that I was able to legitimately farm is now probably worth less than half what it was two months ago.
Is this due to SV's 'it's not an exploit but it's getting patched don't worry you can keep doing it until next patch i guess lol who cares about this game anyway' flub? Is it due to the dwindling population?
My guess is it's mostly due to the dwindling population and lack of supply, so gougers are free to set their own market when there is no competition. But, let's be real, all of the exploited gold from exploits 'that are not exploiting but whose mechanics aren't working as intended' can't help. Because it puts a bunch of gold in the hands of noobs for next to nothing, who otherwise would take way longer to make that amount... Yeah. I don't know how you can defend that as a positive force in the game's economy, obviously it should create some degree of inflation, albeit pop decline is likely the ultimate source of price-hikes since competition should still keep fast-moving items low in spite of all the exploited gold.
The economy is way worse than it was 2+ months ago, that's for sure. Let's use the example of something less ubiquitous, like max str longbows for example, since they are common but also specific to certain builds... 2+ months ago when I started playing, there were 3-5+ pages of bows in Meduli/Tind/Fabe brokers, and you could usually source a 123 bow for around 1g, sometimes a bit more sometimes a bit less. Now, you're lucky if there is even 2 pages of bows(often there is just one, and a handful of sellers if that), and if you can find a 123 bow at all(most brokers rarely if ever have any in stock), people are selling them for 4-5g or more...
I think that's a pretty good indicator that the economy is not in a great state. Basically the amount of gold that I was able to legitimately farm is now probably worth less than half what it was two months ago.
Is this due to SV's 'it's not an exploit but it's getting patched don't worry you can keep doing it until next patch i guess lol who cares about this game anyway' flub? Is it due to the dwindling population?
My guess is it's mostly due to the dwindling population and lack of supply, so gougers are free to set their own market when there is no competition. But, let's be real, all of the exploited gold from exploits 'that are not exploiting but whose mechanics aren't working as intended' can't help. Because it puts a bunch of gold in the hands of noobs for next to nothing, who otherwise would take way longer to make that amount... Yeah. I don't know how you can defend that as a positive force in the game's economy, obviously it should create some degree of inflation, albeit pop decline is likely the ultimate source of price-hikes since competition should still keep fast-moving items low in spite of all the exploited gold.
Last edited:
errr I think you are mixing up different iissues here.
Some simpel crafts, like bows, shields or horsetack, are in less supply and with higher prices.
Some people have obscene amounts of gold in their banks.
Crafting a bow, a shield or some horsegear is relatively easy and cheap. Basicly anyone can do it without much hassle.
If prices are rising for those goods, its simply because noone want to compete with lower prices. Lower pop, fewer crafters, higher prices.
Unless the bowmakers buy their mats from the broker, which I doubt, considering the pre inflation prices you mention, these price are simply caused by supply and demand.
I do see an area where counterfeit gold might play a part, in retail. When people buy up materials and resell at 2 or 3x the price. Doing this demand a large amount of gold in your bank and lots of patience. Yet I see it happening. Luckily, the people doing this are few and far between, so opportunistic traders like me, can always find a decent deal somewhere.
And of course, the rare high value items, they are perversely expensive, due to inflation.
Some simpel crafts, like bows, shields or horsetack, are in less supply and with higher prices.
Some people have obscene amounts of gold in their banks.
Crafting a bow, a shield or some horsegear is relatively easy and cheap. Basicly anyone can do it without much hassle.
If prices are rising for those goods, its simply because noone want to compete with lower prices. Lower pop, fewer crafters, higher prices.
Unless the bowmakers buy their mats from the broker, which I doubt, considering the pre inflation prices you mention, these price are simply caused by supply and demand.
I do see an area where counterfeit gold might play a part, in retail. When people buy up materials and resell at 2 or 3x the price. Doing this demand a large amount of gold in your bank and lots of patience. Yet I see it happening. Luckily, the people doing this are few and far between, so opportunistic traders like me, can always find a decent deal somewhere.
And of course, the rare high value items, they are perversely expensive, due to inflation.
I'm aware, I explicitly go out of my way to say that I doubt the terrible policy SV has on recent exploits, and all of the nodeline duping in the past etc., is the real source of broker inflation. I was just saying that lack of items on broker and 2-300% mark-up for basic goods is a sign of a bad economy overall. And finally, was saying it's possible that a bunch of people who previously had 1k now having 3k++ gold in no time flat for exploiting SV's bad design would create some degree of inflation that might be exacerbating the issue.
See?Kaquenqos said:
Honestly, sometimes I think you guys don't even read my posts and just want to be cliquey and contradict me for no reason because it just says 'member' under my name.
Anyway, if SV can ever deliver a completed game with PvP mechanics that make sense and end-game content, they absolutely should wipe. This 'release' has actually been 'pay-to-beta', and, if they ever did finish this game (I won't hold my breath), they would be crazy not to wipe before organizing a big advertising campaign 're-release' type event. If they did it right, they would pull in far more than they would ever lose-- and if they fixed the dog-ass PvP mechanics & had a finished product with TC, most of them might even stick around for a while.
Last edited:
This thread about wipe seems more like child voice, when someone got more then you. Everyone know about problems, but wipe is not change it and not fix it. Also, its take more damage to fair players then to cheaters.
I agree, there is no reason to wipe at the present. Ultimately nothing has changed that would make the game be better in a year, even if they did wipe. It would be the same bogus exploits and bogus economy in one year's time anyway. If you wiped with advertising it might bring in some more players, but they ultimately would not stick around either.
Wiping with a rerelease of the game, if they ever get their shit together, does actually make sense, though. On the other hand, if they don't get their shit together, it really doesn't matter anyway because it will just be 100-200 people playing in a year's time. The fate of the game at that point is a matter of if the team feels like scraping by again or not, and a wipe is completely irrelevant.
I guess I'm just saying, if they wanted to do the rerelease with subscription drop & new features and advertise it as such, a tabula rasa wipe looks way better on paper to someone interested in picking up the game than a 1-2year old game full of duping, exploits, people cheesing bosses while devs work out bad design, full of old guilds & maxed out characters that have no economical limit. This is a full loot PvP game after all. I guarantee, in this instance, a wipe in conjunction with rerelease would get way more players hyped than rolling into the world I just described.
Anyway, I think one scenario is much more likely than the other, regardless. Most settlements are ghost-towns, and the broker has never looked this bad.
Last edited:
No.
There will always be dupers, and SV smites them. The real reason people complain about duping is because they are bubble gum gamers and don't expect a game to require work. Meanwhile, some of the rest of us are putting in the work and reaping the rewards, and that enrages the lazy non workers.
The map isn't too big. I like it big, I like a big world to have corners to hide in and see no one. Its easy to find where people are.
I don't know how OP these trinkets are, but this kind of reasoning is only important to min-maxer gamers who, if they think they have a single strength point less than other people, think they've lost the game.
Inflation isn't through the roof, I am a very active trader and the only thing I see much of a glut of is flux. Metals, woods, foods, everything else seems to be pretty well in normal ups and downs.
It's my understanding that there are almost no full drop PvP games out there anymore. Care to give some examples of something better running right now? Mortal Online was never a hack and slash, die and repeat game. It's a MMORPG. I think this one central reality is what most people get hung up on.
One example is Albion Online, which boasts a healthy 6-10k population. You're right, there aren't many PvP oriented MMOs these days, and there are even fewer full-loot PvP ones-- but that's another matter. If you want examples of full-loot PvP games with better PvP mechanics than MO2 we've got... Let's see here... Oh, right! Literally any other full-loot PvP MMO (including its predecessor). MO2 is basically a rapist simulator with its bogus blue flag nonsense... yeah, I wonder why people aren't flocking to this title.
If you're saying that there are no examples of good full-loot PvP MMOs with no limits on how PvP should take place, then yes, you're right. Because it's a stupid idea and doesn't work in practice. Nobody is going to want to log in to a slow moving game like an MMORPG and be ganked in town repeatedly. Most devs understand that the joy gankers get compared to the loss aversion it instills becomes a net negative for overall enjoyment after a certain point, and that your game will start to atrophy because you didn't put any sensible checks and balances in place to mitigate this offset.
It's not fun, and it's not realistic. It's not realistic because in real life you don't spawn into the world as a defenseless baby with no family or anyone to look out for you, and if you do have this unfortunate fate, you will be eaten by a freaking opossum. In real life there are tons of tribal affiliations that are innate, and these tribal affiliation that you are born into, however informal, always produce some semblance of law and order. This will not happen in an MMORPG unless you put in mechanics to simulate such a thing.
If MO2 had all of Albion Online's PvP mechanics, I'm not saying it would be just as popular, because MO2 is buggy as hell also, but it would at least have retained a player-base in the 1-2k range. The problem isn't just that MO2's system is arbitrary and plays into the hand of gankers, but also that there is literally no alternative to this as far as PvP goes. It's a full loot PvP MMO whose only PvP gameplay loop involves running deliveries between towns to save up 'get away with murder and still flag blue' points, hiding behind your blue flag and ganking unsuspecting people, or else just foregoing that first bit and running around aimlessly and randomly, looking for people to gank out of your red keep. Niiiice.
If there was an MMO that had Albion Online's city, property, TC, faction & overall PvP mechanics, combined with MO2's graphics, setting, relatively easy access to 'endgame' and lack of huge discrepancy in item power, it would do very well.
The problem isn't full-loot PvP, the problem is how MO2 approaches full-loot PvP.
Last edited: