Combat performance feedback, from the observer's perspective.

[Slammington Unchained]

Rose tinted glasses are in effect. Mo1 was actually very very bad. But I think we all enjoyed it anyway, to some extent. Why would we all be back otherwise?

2 things were the main obstacles for Mo1 development: Technical limitations (engine, current technology, infrastructure) and super small dev team(including meager budget).

At least one of those are confirmed to be better. The dev team is now more like a normal size for a small studio, instead of the 2-4 that mo1 had most of its life.


If the other obstacle is something they can get past is all up in the air right now, only one way to find out.

How dare you, MO1 was actually very very good that's why we all enjoyed it to an extent and we're all back now. And I agree kind sir that the technology back then limited MO's development though while Henrik's squad was super small, many very successful games have came out of one-man/small development teams such as Minecraft or Rimworld. I argue that not just one but both these issues have been addressed as Henrik hired people that know how to integrate better tech into the game (that's why we have perfect graphics now). MO has a bright future ahead.

 

[bbihah]

How dare you, MO1 was actually very very good that's why we all enjoyed it to an extent and we're all back now. And I agree kind sir that the technology back then limited MO's development though while Henrik's squad was super small, many very successful games have came out of one-man/small development teams such as Minecraft or Rimworld. I argue that not just one but both these issues have been addressed as Henrik hired people that know how to integrate better tech into the game (that's why we have perfect graphics now). MO has a bright future ahead.

I remain skeptical but hopeful. Either way, backing MO2 was a given for me. As long as they want to try, I'll support it.
I have mainly fond memories of MO1, even through the "bad times" we generally speaking had a good time, atleast in our guild and our alliance. Just thanks to the people and how it actually brought us together regardless of the drama, bumpy up times of the servers, mediocre content, occasional GM hijinks and more.

They have experience now and that alone with the increased dev team size has my hopes up.

 

[Kavu]

Lol how privileged are we if we’re complaining about how 1-3 seconds Of desync with people playing around the world is unacceptable. Ffs mo1 wasnt that bad at all and I play from hawaii.

If it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel good, and people won't play it. That's how games are and always have been.

I wasnt god at pvp but I could win a 1v1 sometimes.

If you didn't care then, and you don't care now that's great, but we do.

And this game is for bigger battles where you wont be parring every blow anyways.

Except it's not. Bigger battles are the exception, not the rule. Most fights you have are more than likely going to be relatively small and impromptu. Dueling and small scale pvp has always been a big part of Mortal Online, and due to the niche nature of the genre, it always will be. Even if there was more people in the game, 1 v 1s will always be a part of the culture, its just the nature of pvp'ers, we like to see how we stack up within and outside of our little tribes.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Lol how privileged are we if we’re complaining about how 1-3 seconds Of desync with people playing around the world is unacceptable. Ffs mo1 wasnt that bad at all and I play from hawaii. I wasnt god at pvp but I could win a 1v1 sometimes. And this game is for bigger battles where you wont be parring every blow anyways.

Except it's not. Bigger battles are the exception, not the rule. Most fights you have are more than likely going to be relatively small and impromptu. Dueling and small scale pvp has always been a big part of Mortal Online, and due to the niche nature of the genre, it always will be. Even if there was more people in the game, 1 v 1s will always be a part of the culture, its just the nature of pvp'ers, we like to see how we stack up within and outside of our little tribes.

Small scale, large scale, it's all the same. With 360 blocking you no longer have to worry about annoying people wrapping behind you and hitting you in the back.

 

[Jhackman]

Rose tinted glasses are in effect. Mo1 was actually very very bad. But I think we all enjoyed it anyway, to some extent. Why would we all be back otherwise?

2 things were the main obstacles for Mo1 development: Technical limitations (engine, current technology, infrastructure) and super small dev team(including meager budget).

At least one of those are confirmed to be better. The dev team is now more like a normal size for a small studio, instead of the 2-4 that mo1 had most of its life.


If the other obstacle is something they can get past is all up in the air right now, only one way to find out.

Very very bad? I get on ark for a few minutes and just walking Around on the lowest ping server i cam find is way Worse then mortal ever was even with a 100 player battle.

 

[Jhackman]

If it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel good, and people won't play it. That's how games are and always have been.



If you didn't care then, and you don't care now that's great, but we do.



Except it's not. Bigger battles are the exception, not the rule. Most fights you have are more than likely going to be relatively small and impromptu. Dueling and small scale pvp has always been a big part of Mortal Online, and due to the niche nature of the genre, it always will be. Even if there was more people in the game, 1 v 1s will always be a part of the culture, its just the nature of pvp'ers, we like to see how we stack up within and outside of our little tribes.

I mean you notice one or two out of 10-15 hits maybe off but you see the guy pull his weapon back you block. I never played For Honor but was it perfect every time? Not asking you just asking.

 

[bbihah]

Very very bad? I get on ark for a few minutes and just walking Around on the lowest ping server i cam find is way Worse then mortal ever was even with a 100 player battle.

And? they are not the same game or by the same studio? Are you saying the industry standard is terrible games or what exactly is your point here?
I don't think ARK was ever made for 100 player battles in the first place, but that doesn't excuse that it was basically abandonware at most of its life. Not sure the state of the game now-a-days.
But I do know that melee combat was horrible and they did have a fantasy themed expansion at some point.


Did you try Atlas? If you thought ARK was bad that is on a entire different level.

 

[WesleySnipes]

Lol how privileged are we if we’re complaining about how 1-3 seconds Of desync with people playing around the world is unacceptable. Ffs mo1 wasnt that bad at all and I play from hawaii. I wasnt god at pvp but I could win a 1v1 sometimes. And this game is for bigger battles where you wont be parring every blow anyways.

Lol how privileged are we if we’re complaining about how 1-3 seconds Of desync with people playing around the world is unacceptable. Ffs mo1 wasnt that bad at all and I play from hawaii. I wasnt god at pvp but I could win a 1v1 sometimes. And this game is for bigger battles where you wont be parring every blow anyways.

Imagine the privilege someone would have paying a box price, a monthly fee and expecting not to getting desync and potentially losing a fight because of it in a full loot pvp game....?

Hell if it was just once in awhile it wouldn't really be a problem. In this game it happens several times a fight, almost every fight.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Imagine the privilege someone would have paying a box price, a monthly fee and expecting not to getting desync and potentially losing a fight because of it in a full loot pvp game....?

Hell if it was just once in awhile it wouldn't really be a problem. In this game it happens several times a fight, almost every fight.

Henrik's "The Vision" gives the game so much potential that it justifies the cost despite the desync. In fact, have you considered that desync may be an unintended, intended feature of the game? The desync in MO created a new playstyle for people, especially of Australian origin, that adapted to the lag and were able to use prediction to their advantage. I argue that in later stages of MO2 players would begin to realize the lag is beneficial to them and would praise Henrik's decision to either delay or belay wasting developmental power on fixing lag in lieu of making more quality content.

Regardless of which, both myself as well as many people on this forum have already given Henrik our money and will continue to support the developmental costs of the game even if desync isn't addressed, so honestly, it's a non-issue.

 

[Jhackman]

Imagine the privilege someone would have paying a box price, a monthly fee and expecting not to getting desync and potentially losing a fight because of it in a full loot pvp game....?

Hell if it was just once in awhile it wouldn't really be a problem. In this game it happens several times a fight, almost every fight.

You know any other games out there that are an mmo with the majority of combat being the type of fps melee Mortal has that works flawlessly?

 

[Slammington Unchained]

You know any other games out there that are an mmo with the majority of combat being the type of fps melee Mortal has that works flawlessly?

I do, it's called Mortal Online 1

 

[Kavu]

You know any other games out there that are an mmo with the majority of combat being the type of fps melee Mortal has that works flawlessly?

Kind of an unfair question.
Hitbox hits hurtbox isnt exactly revolutionary. But directional melee combat also isn't really something most people care for in general, so the fact there is even a couple of mmos with that style of combat is already kind of surprising. Niche mmo is practically an oxymoron.

Desynch isn't strictly because of the combat system though. It happens in other games too, but not so frequently or with so high of stakes, and efforts are almost always made to mitigate it. What's strange about MO however is that desynch is more dangerous here and is ironically often dismissed as simply not an issue worth confronting at all, which would baffle any audience aside from ourselves.

But it is what it is, no amount of discussion is going to change the plans for networking / servers. So we should get back to other combat related discussion! Maybe wait til after this next patch drops and we see the changes though.

 

[Jhackman]

Kind of an unfair question.
Hitbox hits hurtbox isnt exactly revolutionary. But directional melee combat also isn't really something most people care for in general, so the fact there is even a couple of mmos with that style of combat is already kind of surprising. Niche mmo is practically an oxymoron.

Desynch isn't strictly because of the combat system though. It happens in other games too, but not so frequently or with so high of stakes, and efforts are almost always made to mitigate it. What's strange about MO however is that desynch is more dangerous here and is ironically often dismissed as simply not an issue worth confronting at all, which would baffle any audience aside from ourselves.

But it is what it is, no amount of discussion is going to change the plans for networking / servers. So we should get back to other combat related discussion! Maybe wait til after this next patch drops and we see the changes though.

Maybe there is so few because its hard to make? Darkfall had its hits and misses.

And its not that people should be dismissing the desync. I’m sure SV is trying to negate it as much as possible with the technology of today and they need feedback that helps them improve it not “omg its so bad its totally unacceptable!”

The reason you notice it way more in this type of game is most games can be a lot looser in their prediction with out you noticing where as in mo if the guy is two steps farther from you would be able to hit him and he hits you it seems unfair.

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Maybe there is so few because its hard to make? Darkfall had its hits and misses.

And its not that people should be dismissing the desync. I’m sure SV is trying to negate it as much as possible with the technology of today and they need feedback that helps them improve it not “omg its so bad its totally unacceptable!”

The reason you notice it way more in this type of game is most games can be a lot looser in their prediction with out you noticing where as in mo if the guy is two steps farther from you would be able to hit him and he hits you it seems unfair.

People should definitely be dismissing desync. SV could spend a few hundred extra man hours addressing desync, which will always exist in some shape or form and can be mitigated if 360 blocking wasn't removed, or go ahead and push for new content, bigger continents etc. If you ask me, desync has been so ingrained into MO culture and combat that if you can't handle it the game's too hardcore for you and you should go play Tarkov.

 

[Kavu]

the game's too hardcore for you and you should go play Tarkov.

The beauty of Tarkov is that we're probably desyncing like crazy but we'll never know because the guy who killed us was shooting from another zip code. Out of sight out of mind.

 

[WesleySnipes]

You know any other games out there that are an mmo with the majority of combat being the type of fps melee Mortal has that works flawlessly?

What does that mean to the paying customer? Absolutely nothing. I deal with the customer every day and trust me when I say they won't care. It either works, or it doesn't. That's the assumption they'll come to. Once in awhile is tolerable, several times every fight is hugely problematic.

And its not that people should be dismissing the desync. I’m sure SV is trying to negate it as much as possible with the technology of today and they need feedback that helps them improve it not “omg its so bad its totally unacceptable!”

I don't see how "Hey, I'm encountering desync very often, like in every fight, here's a video displaying the problem" translates to "omg is so bad". If it's coming from multiple sources it's a problem.

 

[SeaShadow]

City of Heroes with an 800k player population claimed to have server costs $USD 6-7k per month, as they went non profit or something. SV just needs to get a good well-subbed MO2 core game going, then more servers around the world could be possible to solve latency.

 

[Rennuir]

City of Heroes with an 800k player population claimed to have server costs $USD 6-7k per month, as they went non profit or something. SV just needs to get a good well-subbed MO2 core game going, then more servers around the world could be possible to solve latency.

hmm dont think the problem is funding if thats what u mean its more of henriks game design to only have 1 server for everyone and using tech n stuff to deal with latency issues

tbh idc if we stay with one server or get na servers or w/e ive already played mo1 when the server was in sweden with my na ping and most of the lag problems are gone now/minor in mo2 for me

 

[SeaShadow]

hmm dont think the problem is funding if thats what u mean its more of henriks game design to only have 1 server for everyone and using tech n stuff to deal with latency issues

tbh idc if we stay with one server or get na servers or w/e ive already played mo1 when the server was in sweden with my na ping and most of the lag problems are gone now/minor in mo2 for me

Good to hear. Will definitely be trying it out once there's a sub for general players.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Most probably we gonna have 1 server until next continent. Imo unless MO2 gets so many players Myrland is flooded and performance is crap overall and they are forced to get more to keep players.

Unlikely but could happen.