Bring back longer extraction timers

[Eldrath]

Assuming the system stays roughly the same I would suggest tobring back longer extraction timers for appliances.

- You should be able to put a resource into a f.e. grinder and then leave, do other stuff, and come back to pick up whatever was extracted.
- You should be able to use multiple machines at once. Other players can use the machine at the same time.
- No extraction machines should be placeable in safe zones such as guarded areas, inside walls or houses.
- When finished the resource should either
a. drop into your inventory or
b. drop into a lootbag in front of the machine
c. drop into a prepared wagon (which is lootable)

This would lead to players being able to multitask and maximise the active gameplay in extraction. It has an added benefit that it increases player activity, allows active players to defend themselves and their resources and promotes flexibility.

Additional ideas:
- Adjustable timers, the longer the timer, the bigger the yield.
- Buildable extraction camps that degarde over time
- The camp give off a column of smoke, so people know where to find them
- Minigames in extraction for reducing timer.
-

Spoiler: minigame suggestion

I dont know what you guys think of when you use the word "minigame". I dont want some scrappy looking puzzle crap that appears on the screen and ruin the immersion of the game just to decrease timers.

What I WOULD like is to be able to manualy work the extraction machines. Lets say you have to fire up the Furnace yourself, use different kinds of woods for fuel, pump air into it for more heat, add the materials and catalysts at the right time, open valves to control the heat etc, so instead of mindless waiting, extraction requires knowledge and careful management of the extraction equipment.

Idd also like to see different qualities in extracted materials. A perfectly extracted and refined batch of steel should have higher quality then a poorly made one, not just be less material.

The same could be made for crafting. Heat the metal, form the blade etc.

This would make extraction and crafting skill based and instead of just staring at timers and go AFK, it would take real skill and knowledge and allow players to become true master crafters.

Let the hating commence!


Edit:

For clarity I´m gonna describe a sequence of actions that could be done in-game with timers active.

A. Put 1 stack granum in crusher and set timer for 10 minutes.
B. Go to a nearby node and mine for 10 minutes.
C. Go back and put mined granum into crusher.
C1. Put bloodore into furnace, set timer to 5 minutes
D. Repeat till nearby nodes are depleted and you have the pig iron you want.

Another one:
A. Put saburra into grinder, put timer 10 minutes.
B. Ride along the coast and collect bor
C. Take out products and combine with bor you just gathered
D. While this is processing, go collect seaweed.

And this is not even taking into account using multiple appliances, bulding extraction camps (which offer new possibilities) and PvP and PvE.


Edit2:
Added suggestions.

 

[Dracu]

uhuhuhuh i wanna hate first
timers are boring, nobody wants timer. Increasing timers to do something else means the waiting is boring and pointless so why even have the time in the first place?
Replace timers with fun stuff to do.

 

[Nenju]

Replace timers with fun stuff to do.

^exactly that, fun should always be considered when making any game "mechanic" and if its still fun if u make like 50 extractions a day or craft 20armor sets etc.

is it fun doing it one time? is it fun doing it 100 times?

 

[Eldrath]

Fun is a pretty relativ term. When I play Squad and tell my buddy about it he constantly states how that cannot be fun, how boring it sounds and how I should play world of warships for those quick 5 minute skirmishes.

Digging up a base for the 100th time in itself is not fun - the strategy, thought and danger that come with it are.

Without timers there is no element of danger, anticipation and weight to the process. It´s just you looking at youtube while your macro runs through stacks of resources behind walls. If you make that instant, why should mining, taming, woodchopping or gathering take any time? Why should killing a mob take time? I don´t find repetetive blocking and getting healed super entertaining - why don´t I get that for free?

 

[Dracu]

Fun is a pretty relativ term. When I play Squad and tell my buddy about it he constantly states how that cannot be fun, how boring it sounds and how I should play world of warships for those quick 5 minute skirmishes.

Digging up a base for the 100th time in itself is not fun - the strategy, thought and danger that come with it are.

Without timers there is no element of danger, anticipation and weight to the process. It´s just you looking at youtube while your macro runs through stacks of resources behind walls. If you make that instant, why should mining, taming, woodchopping or gathering take any time? Why should killing a mob take time? I don´t find repetetive blocking and getting healed super entertaining - why don´t I get that for free?

But you even suggested:
- You should be able to put a resource into a f.e. grinder and then leave, do other stuff, and come back to pick up whatever was extracted.

i mean this pretty much sums timers up doesnt it?
It's not about making it instant - its about making it fun.
If a mechanic is not fun in game it has better have a good damn reason for it. Why play 2 hrs of not fun to have 1 hr of fun when you can get in a game that is straight 3 hrs fun.
Shouldnt it be the goal of the game to be fun? And if you have unfun mechanics... why have them, are there alternatives that might be fun?

I doubt sitting somewhere at an extractor waiting for ppl to gank you is fun for the person doing the boring shit, its fun for the gankers yeah cause they do the fun stuff. They run around in a group do shit together fight. While the extractor watches youtube and effectivley doesnt play the game.

Edit:
I like your minigame idea to reduce timers... alooot

 

[Eldrath]

But you even suggested:
- You should be able to put a resource into a f.e. grinder and then leave, do other stuff, and come back to pick up whatever was extracted.

i mean this pretty much sums timers up doesnt it?
It's not about making it instant - its about making it fun.
If a mechanic is not fun in game it has better have a good damn reason for it. Why play 2 hrs of not fun to have 1 hr of fun when you can get in a game that is straight 3 hrs fun.
Shouldnt it be the goal of the game to be fun? And if you have unfun mechanics... why have them, are there alternatives that might be fun?

I doubt sitting somewhere at an extractor waiting for ppl to gank you is fun for the person doing the boring shit, its fun for the gankers yeah cause they do the fun stuff. They run around in a group do shit together fight. While the extractor watches youtube and effectivley doesnt play the game.

If I put a stack of granum in the crusher and the timer runs for 6 minutes I can move freely without any risk of someone taking that granum. I can fight off gankers since every character can have fighting skills. I can run away and get reinforcements while delaying the gankers so they don´t steal my stuff. I can go collect flowers for my alchemy, bor for my next extraction etc. In short it opens up possibilities to be GOOD at creating shit. You are still in the mindset of leaving your obese extractor with 20 stack in the inventory and having fun on your second account. That not the point of MO2. Systems need to provide fun (for different people with different playstyles) and RISK.

Minigames could be an option for someone who wants to stand in front of the machine for 1-2 hours at a time, weight down by tons of resources unable to defend themselves. Or something in between.

You need an element of risk, which is time spend in a position where you could loose your stuff.

Or you scrap the whole risk part and go the eve road, where that kinda thing happens in a safe zones done by NPCs. You put in granum and a few hours later you get steel. I prefer actual gameplay.

 

[Zbuciorn]

No minigames please.

 

[Neftan]

Mini games should be optional. I agree with the long extraction timers with the extension of allowed roaming while they work.

Mini games should be an option for players who want speed. You could stay at the machine and engage in a mini game that would shave time off as you did it.

 

[Rathius]

Assuming the system stays roughly the same I would suggest tobring back longer extraction timers for appliances.

- You should be able to put a resource into a f.e. grinder and then leave, do other stuff, and come back to pick up whatever was extracted.
- You should be able to use multiple machines at once. Other players can use the machine at the same time.
- No extraction machines should be placeable in safe zones such as guarded areas, inside walls or houses.
- When finished the resource should either a. drop into your inventory or b. drop into a lootbag in front of the machine

This would lead to players being able to multitask and maximise the active gameplay in extraction. It has an added benefit that it increases player activity, allows active players to defend themselves and their resources and promotes flexibility.

Additional ideas:
- Adjustable timers, the longer the timer, the bigger the yield.
- Buildable extraction camps that degarde over time
- Minigames in extraction for reducing timer


Let the hating commence!

Interesting... I would agree with minor changes. First, although you can use multiple appliances if in proximity, you should not be allowed to leave the area. These appliances still need to be operated by a user after all.

 

[Zbuciorn]

Mini games should be optional. I agree with the long extraction timers with the extension of allowed roaming while they work.

Mini games should be an option for players who want speed. You could stay at the machine and engage in a mini game that would shave time off as you did it.

Then all the professional extractors would macro mini games.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Minigame over timers any day.

 

[Neftan]

Then all the professional extractors would macro mini games.

That isn't our problem. That is the developers problem. If they allow the macros or not, and how to manage them.

Having the optional interactive path for speed is ideal for someone rushing or who is safe. Trying to process while locked in to the interface would leave you completely vulnerable to be attacked.

Those who allow the timers to go are free to multitask, guard, extract at multiple machines, etc.

I believe the concept is fairly sound.

 

[Zbuciorn]

That isn't our problem. That is the developers problem. If they allow the macros or not, and how to manage them.

Having the optional interactive path for speed is ideal for someone rushing or who is safe. Trying to process while locked in to the interface would leave you completely vulnerable to be attacked.

The best way for SV to not waist their resources on fighting macros is avoiding designs which ask for their use.The fishing profession was broken by it in MO1.

Longer timers and multiple equipment used at the same time sounds good.

 

[Eldrath]

Minigame over timers any day.

Timers are a minigame. Look at it like cooking. Boiling pasta is boring, I´d go and watch youtube while it does it´s thing. But, in the 10 minutes it takes to boil it I can: chop garlic, roast garlic, prepare mozeralla and tomatoes for starter. By the end of 10 minutes I put the pasta in the pan with the garlic. This timer is 2 minutes and i use that time to set the table.

So my whole meal and table setting takes 12 minutes. The fun isn´t in watching pasta boil. It was keeping my hungry gf in check while I cook. (aka the ganker)


Anyway I think a solution could be a choice between minigames and running multiple applications at once. Serves both crowds I guess. I just don´t like the argument that timers are no fun, since basically anything in games is based on timers and no one gives a fuck. Time management is a skill and can be fun. Any build order in RTS is about nothing but time management.

Interesting... I would agree with minor changes. First, although you can use multiple appliances if in proximity, you should not be allowed to leave the area. These appliances still need to be operated by a user after all.

Maybe, but I prefer being able to give players more freedom. If you have to stay close is limits what you can do a lot. In this case I would go with the gamey design of crusher working automated after you start them.

 

[Amadman]

I have always argued that shorter timers lead to more waiting because you have no time to do anything else. So I am glad to see this come up for discussion here.

The que system did help with this alot. But I think if they added actions that would speed things up then individual timers could be longer.

This would allow players to make it take different amounts of time based on how long they want it to take. Someone wanting it as quick as possible could do the actions as much as possible. Those that need time to do other things can just let it extract on its own and then just do the actions to tweek the time required as needed.

 

[Rhias]

Minigame over timers any day.

But then I can't watch youtube while doing the meaningful and intense activity of extracting stones...

 

[Dracu]

But then I can't watch youtube while doing the meaningful and intense activity of extracting stones...

no you should have fun doing it. If the minigame sucks its not fun and it misses its purpose

 

[Rhias]

no you should have fun doing it. If the minigame sucks its not fun and it misses its purpose

You mean more fun than watching youtube, or just enough fun that I don't want to bang my head on the keyboard?

 

[Eldrath]

You mean more fun than watching youtube, or just enough fun that I don't want to bang my head on the keyboard?

Do you have an alternative suggestion? Considering the fact you do not have to do extraction at all. Or all the time.

I´m not seeing any counter arguments other than "it´s not fun" (subjective) and that it´s somehow not a valid game mechanic. Which it is, since in a sandbox you have to limit resource creation somehow.

 

[Speznat]

Do you have an alternative suggestion? Considering the fact you do not have to do extraction at all. Or all the time.

I´m not seeing any counter arguments other than "it´s not fun" (subjective) and that it´s somehow not a valid game mechanic. Which it is, since in a sandbox you have to limit resource creation somehow.

bro why are you wanna change a symptom if you can change the cause of the symptom with the problem?

THe limit of resources can be balanced of the outcome so you dont have to stand infront of damn fucking timers, while having the same outcome and it would feel more rewarding and less unfair.

or do you disagree, and say that would a shitty solution, (and remember it wouldn't change the balance in anyway if you substract the estimated amount of time away from the output). so how on this planet earth would that make a resource/gold inbalance tell me im interrested.