Adjust Alchemy/Cooking Ingredient Values to Make Value Changes More Noticeable

[lord_yoshi]

Currently, values are shown to the nearest hundredth. This works for Direct Healing, Healing Length, Direct Poison, and Poison Length. The problem is with Healing Over Time, Alcohol, and Poison Over Time values which are mostly under 0.02 units or are otherwise very small.

I propose multiplying the base values by 100 so crafting changes will be noticeable while at the same time alter the math behind the system so the end result remains unchanged. I also suggest checking all hidden stats so this problem does not affect those as well. Definitely do NOT add in stat sliders to solve this issue.

Edit: Actually getting one or two extra decimals would solve everything without having to alter any kind of math.

 

[Kaemik]

Yeah, unless the HoT values we're getting now are going to go up dramatically when we get more ingredients in, measuring in hundredths isn't sufficient information. Like the the difference between 0.050, 0.055, and 0.060 are significant enough that I want to know at least one more decimal place of information.

 

[Grasthard]

maybe change the nase values as well, they are prtty much identical to MO1. vets will have a much easier time thannew players, since you can almost make the best pots from day1, whereas new players could experiment for months (unless spoiled by other players)

change the base values at release and let's have a fres hstat for all. like make salvia heal mana, skadite not a heal multiplier and such

 

[barcode]

if they're going to change the system then do it right and completely revamp how alchemy/cooking is done. i wouldnt mind as it would be a fresh start for everyone and would provide new mysteries to solve. half-assing it and just flipping some numbers about would be a waste of everyone's time

-barcode

 

[lord_yoshi]

maybe change the base values as well

Waste of time and vets would know how to test much faster anyway.

if they're going to change the system then do it right and completely revamp how alchemy/cooking is done

Might be interesting but it would be a waste of dev resources to create a completely different system that almost nobody will touch.

 

[Evelyn Darkwave]

The descriptors for potions are hilariously unintuitive and if I didn't spend a lot of time reading about how things were in MO1 I would have never immediately thought "Oh this heals 25hp ok" I would have read "wow this heals 2.54hp wtf you scammer". Not every new player is going to be so committed and while I get that you all hate new players stats on things could at least be readable at a glance.

 

[lord_yoshi]

The descriptors for potions are hilariously unintuitive and if I didn't spend a lot of time reading about how things were in MO1 I would have never immediately thought "Oh this heals 25hp ok" I would have read "wow this heals 2.54hp wtf you scammer". Not every new player is going to be so committed and while I get that you all hate new players stats on things could at least be readable at a glance.

Just because someone is incapable of doing a simple test doesn't mean it's "unintuitive" and right now it's way more intuitive compared to when stat sliders were in MO1, especially for Direct Healing and Direct Poison. Potions work per unit and you can drink ten maximum units unless you have a specific skill, so just move the decimal place right one digit and you have ten potion unit values.

 

[Valoran]

Just on that topic about the numbers being for one unit only, currently if you right click a potion it drinks 10 units automatically, so there's no way to drink less.

If they want to keep this it would be great to move that decimal point so it's intuitive.

It does however make me think of purify potions and how you would be forced to use more than necessary if you have to drink 10 units every time.

 

[Kaemik]

Bump. We absolutely need another decimal place or two of information to properly test any ingredients affect on HoT or DoT

 

[Xunila]

Bump. We absolutely need another decimal place or two of information to properly test any ingredients affect on HoT or DoT

It's funny to see the players wanting even more after getting the very good change from sliders in MO1 to real values in MO2.

 

[Kaemik]

It's funny to see the players wanting even more after getting the very good change from sliders in MO1 to real values in MO2.

While I don't want to see them implement sliders again (Unfair to incoming players who don't have spreadsheets with real numbers while the dedicated alpha testers like me do), for the particular stat of HoT and DoT a slider is actually more functional. Using simple recipes DoT/HoT values aren't getting up much over 0.06 and some recipes are literally bringing back a value of 0.00.

If I use a multiplier on it, and that multiplier increases the value by say 0.005 which is a rather significant change, I might actually miss that and see no change at all. Improperly concluding that ingredient made no improvement to the base formula. While with a slider I would notice.

The value is too low to be useful in proper testing. The margin of error is so large I'm going to have to throw out all my current data on HoT/DoT ingredients to retest them when more decimal places get added. Even if I did everything I needed to get the best multipliers and get say a 0.20 HoT or DoT that is a very poor value for testing.

 

[lord_yoshi]

It's funny to see the players wanting even more after getting the very good change from sliders in MO1 to real values in MO2.

Some values are still not very usable. A few extra decimals would fix that.

 

[Xunila]

Some values are still not very usable. A few extra decimals would fix that.

Only in case StarVault would not remove some digits at release. That's the reason for me to gather and test as much materials as I can during beta.

 

[NINEN]

It's funny to see the players wanting even more after getting the very good change from sliders in MO1 to real values in MO2.

Hello voice of reason!

 

[Kaemik]

Yeah like I said. For HoT and DoT the sliders work better than what we have right now. It's really sad to see people argue for a game to be more "hardcore" for the sake of being "hardcore". Even when it leads to bad game design. It's like you're not thinking before you blurt out responses you can use to puff your chest about how "hardcore" you want the game to be.

0.01 is not enough information to test recipes. If you don't understand it doesn't work you need to not talk about it until you've actually tried using the system. Because if you like how it currently works you clearly either haven't tried using the system as it is or haven't really understood what you're testing.

If I start playing with variables in a Direct Heal or Direct Poison potion I can see a difference. In the current HoT/DoT system the numbers are changing so little that changes that would be obvious on sliders are going undected.

I mean for God's sake. Lets make it super hardcore, and have every potion give no stats with sliders or numbers and random results. That's how dumb you sound to anyone who knows crap about the current alchemy system when you act like this is an unreasonable request.

 

[Kaemik]

Here are numbers if you aren't catching what I am laying down:

Does that look ok to you???

"Oh well it's because you used 1 ironwood, use more to get better results!"

Yeah??? 0.05? You like that number?

I guess we'll be finding your potions in the severely discounted bin if you think that's a satisfactory level of information? Like how the hell am I supposed to determine if something is or isn't a multiplier if increasing the healing output by 20% of the base value may not even register a difference?

Get back to me when you've actually used the mechanics you're talking about and tell me they are fine.

 

[NINEN]

First, look back at the MO1 Forums, and look for my name. No offense I might know a little about Alchemy.

Second, Henrick already said that its not staying like it is. Now, I personally like the sliders, but I will be glad once they are removed. I say, make it vague because I already know how the system works, and it is not meant to be easy. Actually, not a lot of people can go out and gather scores of materials and then spend hours upon hours to refine a recipe. That's fine, let them go out and "Dunk Scrubs" while we continue to read our dusty tomes.

 

[Kaemik]

First, look back at the MO1 Forums, and look for my name. No offense I might know a little about Alchemy.

"Give people testing it now too little information because I tested it in MO1 and already know how it works."

Got it, not an idiot, just an asshole.

Like if were going to do it that way at least give us sliders back. Also. Recheck your formulas. Not everything is carrying over from MO1 on a 1:1 basis.

 

[NINEN]

I mean no offense, and yea sometimes I am an asshole.

 

[barcode]

it just means you'll have to be a lot more creative in your testing

-barcode