What's the point of the criminal system when it doesn't work?

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Wollkneul

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Doubling down the past 10 times didnt help and actually drove more people to kill more. Go ahead double down, only two things will happen. Either it will fail again and drive more people to be perma neg and kill everyone and anyone. Or those players will quit because PvP is prohibited by the game.

PvP is the main reason people play the game.

If your character would at some point get stat and skill lossed that hard, that it basically means you rerolled your character, you probably wouldn't gank newbies all day.

Maybe PvP is the main reason people play this game, but PvP shouldn't be the main reason to play this game. For that you have games like Mordhau.
 

Rhias

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If your character would at some point get stat and skill lossed that hard, that it basically means you rerolled your character, you probably wouldn't gank newbies all day.

Maybe PvP is the main reason people play this game, but PvP shouldn't be the main reason to play this game. For that you have games like Mordhau.

To me it's PVP in combination with beeing able to loose and loot everything.
Mordhau is just boring because there is nothing to gain or loose.
 

Tashka

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Maybe PvP is the main reason people play this game, but PvP shouldn't be the main reason to play this game. For that you have games like Mordhau.
There can be more than one main reasons to play the game. PvP is one of them and there's no way around it. Without PvP - and lots and lots and lots of PvP - a game like this will be dead in two weeks.
 
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Darthus

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I'm going to play now solely to kill new players.

I am all for an open world, realistic immersive system of natural actions and reactive consequence. And I would not be against a system where if SV could identify with 100% certainty that a veteran players was solely killing new players fresh off haven repeatedly that they had their IP and credit card banned.

But I'll settle for a system that punishes you into oblivion in game until you leave. (I hope you're being edge-lordy and sarcastic, if so then so am I).
 

Darthus

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PvP is the main reason people play the game.

To modify, SV's stated intention is that "PvP is the main reason [some of the] people play the game". It is not the main reason I play it, though I enjoy it being part of the world and they've stated multiple times they intend to treat RP, PVP, PvE and Crafting/Gathering on equal terms.
 

Tzone

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If your character would at some point get stat and skill lossed that hard, that it basically means you rerolled your character, you probably wouldn't gank newbies all day.

Maybe PvP is the main reason people play this game, but PvP shouldn't be the main reason to play this game. For that you have games like Mordhau.
I wonder if people who say just go play morhau actually believe they are being clever or if its just willful ignorance?

If you dont like PvP go play NW. Do you think thats fair to tell you to go play NW because you dont like PvP?
At least with me saying go play NW its a MMO which is why people are here for MO2 because its a mmo.

Maybe when they finish that mordhau like mmo then people will have a real other option.


Outside all of that, this games main content is PvP. You start limiting its games main content then you are just killing your game.
 
Dec 23, 2021
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How possible the player who killing and camping in jungle camp blue players never get red? i got killed 20+times and this guy is still blue after so many reports.?
 

Tzone

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To modify, SV's stated intention is that "PvP is the main reason [some of the] people play the game". It is not the main reason I play it, though I enjoy it being part of the world and they've stated multiple times they intend to treat RP, PVP, PvE and Crafting/Gathering on equal terms.
And Henrik never makes mistakes too. No one would bat a eye if they added all that stuff thats outside of PvP but the issue here is not that they are adding more content horizontal to PvP, they are limiting PvP content which is limiting the main point of the game.

You can try to build a logic that people are hear for the shallow crafting/gathering, the poor PvE, or the RP but people are here because this is pretty much the only Open world PvP MMO there is on the market and then also one of the only full loot ones on top of that. You start limiting that then you are losing the reason most people play.

If he adds better PvE thats good, everyone wants that. The crafting is pretty shallow full of false depth and I dont think hes going to do anything about that. I will never see any RP so it doesnt really matter to me as long as it doesnt interfere with other game content.
 
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Tzone

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How possible the player who killing and camping in jungle camp blue players never get red? i got killed 20+times and this guy is still blue after so many reports.?
He is red, he prob has over 100Mcs. It only takes 5 to not be able to use blue priest anymore.

But why are you grieving him? getting someone MCs like that is very griefy.
 
Dec 23, 2021
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He is red, he prob has over 100Mcs. It only takes 5 to not be able to use blue priest anymore.

But why are you grieving him? getting someone MCs like that is very griefy.

I want some lore book from there but i can't buy because i got camped by blue players. (and no they are not reds)Ow i dont care if red still killing me but seams like the red system isnt working atm. and somehow still blue and not get any points from reports.
 

SilentPony

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I want some lore book from there but i can't buy because i got camped by blue players. (and no they are not reds)Ow i dont care if red still killing me but seams like the red system isnt working atm. and somehow still blue and not get any points from reports.
"Red" just means he got more that 5 murdercounts and can be killed without getting reported. He will still be blue and you will get criminal status for attacking, though. It is not a bug, it is the intended mechanic.
 

Darthus

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I want some lore book from there but i can't buy because i got camped by blue players. (and no they are not reds)Ow i dont care if red still killing me but seams like the red system isnt working atm. and somehow still blue and not get any points from reports.

As pony said, nobody will show "red". If you see someone out in the wild, you have no idea if they are a murderer or not. If they have murder counts past a certain point, they can't resurrect at a lawful town's priest. They may also be losing reputation with the region they killed you in, but if you were out in the jungle etc, there isn't much law out there, it's meant to be kind of "no man's land", I'd recommend you go with others.
 
Dec 23, 2021
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So if i understand correctly there is no red status showing ingame like grey status? Only the one person know this and any others dont.
Darthus: Okey thats make sense.
But whats the logic behind get criminal status for attacking a murder?

you have no idea if they are a murderer or not.

Then how they know you commited criminal action ?
Then why grey status not act like that.

Sorry for stupid questions. Im newb and trying understand.
 
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Dec 23, 2021
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So its look like for me as beginner: The pk players not really punished since everywhere outside citys they show like blue. You dont know they murders so they have the opportunity for initiative. They not punished because the most content in this game is outside of citys. The rare books outside of guarded citys. The best metals and mostly everything in the world outside guarded towns. Don't get me wrong i like the pvp. But this current system its look like garbage to me. So at my current knowledge:
As Pk player: the only punishment they cant enter guarded towns.
As non pk player: you cant live outside town because you instantly KOS-ed by red players. (mostly veteran zergs)
So you will get punished anyway doesnt matter how you play what you play at current state.

i just wonder how can i adapt to it as new mortal player.
 

SilentPony

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So its look like for me as beginner: The pk players not really punished since everywhere outside citys they show like blue. You dont know they murders so they have the opportunity for initiative. They not punished because the most content in this game is outside of citys. The rare books outside of guarded citys. The best metals and mostly everything in the world outside guarded towns. Don't get me wrong i like the pvp. But this current system its look like garbage to me. So at my current knowledge:
As Pk player: the only punishment they cant enter guarded towns.
As non pk player: you cant live outside town because you instantly KOS-ed by red players. (mostly veteran zergs)
So you will get punished anyway doesnt matter how you play what you play at current state.

i just wonder how can i adapt to it as new mortal player.

PK players either have to limit their PK activities in some degree (like not killing people near some cities or kill just a few people a day) or they have to live in red cities, which are not really suited for that unless you are in a strong guild that has the presence there or are sneaky and patient. So it is the other way around: PK like all the other players need the cities but can't enter them, while everybody else can roam the world as they see fit.

Rare books are scattered in different places, some are in guarded cities, like Meduli with heavy armor, poleaxes, steel lore, etc. On other hand, some books are indeed far out in the wild (animal lore and beast stuff in jungle camp).

Most materials can be found near some guarded city. Outside, but not particularly far. Exception is a bunch of ores that are near Gaul Kor, but do you really need them? Steel can be made from materials near guarded cities.

How does one travel the world to distant places and not die. Well, you get a horse and ride while constantly looking all around you, and if you see someone on a horse, you ride away from them, keeping distance and not allowing them to close it. If they chase you, they are probably PK and you should just turn around and ride away. Most of the time they will be not PK and ignore you. If you want to be particularly safe, avoid riding through chokepoints and places with bad visibility so that you are not ambushed. But ambushes are very rare, most of the world is empty.

If you want to be able to defend yourself, you can attack first. You will not lose reputation or get murdercounts (this is what defines PK) if you do not kill them. And you often do not need to. Target their horse, if you are on your horse and their horse is dead, you can easily escape. You can also target them directly, just do not finish them off and leave them in the mercy mode. Of course, you will get a criminal flag (grey) for a couple of minutes if you attack first, so stay away from guards and other blue players for that time.

So, I don't see any problem for a non-PK player to travel the world and do whatever they want.
 

Wollkneul

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May 28, 2020
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I wonder if people who say just go play morhau actually believe they are being clever or if its just willful ignorance?

If you dont like PvP go play NW. Do you think thats fair to tell you to go play NW because you dont like PvP?
At least with me saying go play NW its a MMO which is why people are here for MO2 because its a mmo.

Maybe when they finish that mordhau like mmo then people will have a real other option.


Outside all of that, this games main content is PvP. You start limiting its games main content then you are just killing your game.

My point is, that you don't play this game solely for the PvP combat experience, otherwise obviously you would play Mordhau.

What you like is the play of risk and reward in a more persistent setting that comes with the dopamine rush of the danger to loose all your shit in a fight.

But the game theory behind risk and reward seems off, if it doesn't matter (as you guys are saying) wether you kill 25 people or 250 people.

If you don't want to have a giant gank fest like Rust, you need incentives for peacefultality.

The mere fact that it doesn't matter after a a certain kill count wether you kill people or not is a proof, that the game theory that should try making you avoid that behavior doesn't work fully.
 
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SilentPony

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My point is, that even you don't play this game solely for the PvP combat experience, otherwise obviously you would play Mordhau.

What you like is the play of risk and reward in a more persistent setting that comes with the dopamine rush of the danger to loose all your shit in a fight.

But the game theory behind risk and reward seems off, if it doesn't matter (as you guys are saying) wether you kill 25 people or 250 people.

If you don't want to have a giant gank fest like Rust, you need incentives for peacefultality.

The mere fact that it doesn't matter after a a certain kill count wether you kill people or not is a proof, that the game theory that should try making you avoid that behavior doesn't work fully.

Where do you get this game theory from? For a sustainable gameplay the victims must simply be able to gather enough to recover and try again in a reasonable amount of time, whoever these victims turn out to be (remember, that roaming PK also kill each other and there is always a bigger fish in the ocean).

If there is not enough incentive to risk going out of the city, sure, people won't. If that is the case, developers should increase the reward for going out of the city: place most of the good resources away from cities, increase drop from bandit camps, add cool items that can be crafted with rare things in potential PvP hotspots, incentivize trade between cities, etc.

There should be room for counterplay, but I have already described how you can counter gankers. There should not be incentives for peace, that hurts gameplay, at least I don't see what incentives for peace can there be that are interesting and not simply prohibitive. You want peace - join a big guild with alliances, those people will stop killing you. As an example, look at Albion Online. Main gameplay (best resources, biggest territories, best experience farm) is located there in zones with free PvP. There are literally zero mechanics that punish killing in those zones. To balance that, players are given bigger rewards there and there are some mechanics that make escaping easier (like temporary invulnerability in certain cases, etc.). It is a constant game of cat and mouse, with small ganking groups hunting solo gatherers and better organized or bigger groups hunting gankers and other groups. I don't see why this game can't be made in a similar spirit.
 
Dec 23, 2021
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like not killing people near some cities?

They do everyday. almost in the citys. Good examples the graveyards and near the entrance and the city roads. So i can confirm this is false.

or kill just a few people a day

Why? they already at pk cap. They have one or maybe two hundred murder count. Why they care about the "magic five"?
They look like blue. so nobody know they murderers.


Rare books are scattered in different places, some are in guarded cities, like Meduli with heavy armor, poleaxes, steel lore, etc. On other hand, some books are indeed far out in the wild (animal lore and beast stuff in jungle camp).

Mostly this basic books that every players get early of the game and dont worry about citys books anymore.
The more important books at non guarded places. Some big-veteran pk guild stay and camping the incoming players at jungle camp i can confirm that. You are instantly get killed when go in and trying to buy the important books. (i figured out how to buy these but took me 2 day and lot of pain and work)


Steel can be made from materials near guarded cities.
Ye steel will be good but how mutch do you need farm for one or maybe two weapon? If you max your refine skills you still loose lot of material during process. Also the one two handed weaponon cost around 400-500steel. So if you farm one day and u can only make 3-4weapon then itsnt worth the effort.

But its just my opinion and my experience as new player. I can't think as veteran atm. Maybe in the future will be good but now is just a pain sometimes.

If you want to be able to defend yourself, you can attack first.
I can confirm you have no chance agins good or veteran players if they geared up well. If you better in combat they will compensate with gear. But mostly new players skills under the veterans. We need to train. But gear comparsion is just another problem.

I play this game for pvp experience ofc. But in some circumstances you have no chance to achive your goals and its fustrating sometimes. Have bad luck, run into zergs or enemy skill far better, enemy gear far better.
Maybe it will be good after 2-3mo. But in early as new player you will never experience of success. (maybe only in pve and this is why some players favorize the pve content more that pvp) And maybe this is the reason why this game have layered small player base amount.

I love this game and never give up but its a dark fact about the game.
 
Dec 23, 2021
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victims must simply be able to gather enough to recover and try again in a reasonable amount of time

Thats true. But you also have to deal with a lack of success. a lot. And MOSTLY ! you need to deal inside yourself when enemy not just killing you but start bully you in voice chat and in local chat. I think this thing is beyond the game. Whats the reason to pk players start bully the man behind the game ? Only pk players doing that. Its problem in every game but in mo2- is hurt mutch more. And with small amount player base you will meet more people like this. And sadly they organized and they represent a great force in the game.

So as new player early: you get good PVE experience and experience of success. And in pvp you get bully, shit-talking, and lack of success. Mostly they are not satisfied by killing they want to make you upset behind the pc and ruin your game. Somehow some player satisfied by doing this. Maybe they protest ingame. Idk whats the reason behind that. Community is mostly toxic af. as i experienced but there is some good guys who playing to protect new players, teach them and ensure they have some experience of success. Like KotO in Meduli. (i dont want ig politics here, i have good experience with them).
So the feeling is very mixed
 
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