What is the Downside of Archery/ MA?

[Stundorn]

what is the downisde of it?
Imho everything from PvE to PVP is more easy if you are an Archer, no?

where are the Mobs that cant be kitet or shot before they reach you?
Minos beeing suggested to get tanked as an Acher in heavy Armor and shot without the need to block?
what PvP situations dont start ranged and what are the situations you benefit from beeing a footfighter or mage?

is Archery op?
or is Archery the easy mode and everything else is harder and mage is the hardest?
why dont they get massive penalty from shooting in plate heavy armor like a mage is penalized and nerfed drastically?
why you can pull a bow on a horse in plate armor?
why you can pull a bow in heavy armor without any stam penalty or massive drain?

can some people exaplain?!

thanks in advance

 

[Tzone]

Archery is very weak in actual fights. Foot archers are detrimental unless you have Superior numbers.

When a player is naked or weak armored bows esspecially long bows do massive amounts of damage but arrows are very slow and any player can simply strafe or walk back and forth to be unpreditable enough that it is improbably that they would be hit even by the best of aimers. You simply dont have the speed on the projectile to hit a player that moves and changes directions because they can move before the arrow would arrive.
If that is making sense. Like compare it to a FPS shooter like Battle field that has travel time on bullets. At a lot of the distance a sniper can predict where to aim ahead of a player to hit them but the farther out they are the longer it takes for the bullet to get to that predicted spot and at some point the choices the target makes can determine whether or not the perfectly aimed shot can hit them. If in BF a sniper shoots at you up close there is not moment choice you could make to avoid the projectile if they aimed at the right spot.

For this game the range of when a players choice in movement is the factor in which your arrow hits them or not, is very near to the archer. The archer would not only have to predict where they would be by the time the arrow reached their distance from the archer, but also the choices in direction or if the target would just stop.

Mage is very easy, its hitscan, bypasses armor, psyche builds are gimped verse everything else in the game so you dont see anything with 80+ psy, and they are unblockable. Also you can heal yourself, and usually are faster then all builds while not needing to use your stamina to do attacks.

Outburst is one of the weak spells in ecumenical but is very OP now after they buffed it a couple of patches ago. Long bows shoot a arrow every 3.2 seconds with dodgable arrows affected by armor and the archer needs to stand still in order to not waste stamina. Outburst is a 25-32 damage spell every 2.2 seconds, cheaper, hitscan, unblockable, ignores armor, and has the range of name tag minus two steps.
Long bows can shoot farther but good luck hitting a aware player at half of outburst range with a arrow.
Long bows do about 24-30s to molarium or 20-24s to steel. And against oghs its minus 4 damage to each.


For armor longbows will do massive amounts to lower tier and nakeds yes but fall off to being viable against molarium sets if you are extreamly skilled but become unviable as a main playstyle against later game steel sets.
Archery is still viable as a secondary to complement a foot fighter in fighting mounted, fighting when you outnumber, shooting people at range in when there is a opportunity, and finishing off some players.

MA is different in that it becomes viable as a play style for making up for all of archeries issues with speed and movment. The ability to flee from most fights and to reset is the main reason. But also it is very meta against a lot of mounted and is easy against mounted. But it is very hard to land hits on a competent foot player with MA because of the above slow arrow speed reasons. Mounted move predictable, big, and have less range of movement then a player making it perfectly viable to land most of your hits on a mounted players mount.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Yes we could analyze the overall efficiency of Archery, which on foot tends to be opcional/situational due to its limitations yet MA on the other hand Is another thing, cuz of the general DPS against other mounteds, making MA vs MM and MC borderline not viable.

In MA vs MM the mage has strongest limitations, like no turning while casting and the extended casting time compared to bow dps and ability to switch target between horse and mage to kill the mount and interrupt castings, then again mage has corrupt that could input more difficulty to Archery wobbling" but not really significant due to timer and prediction of ticks, high dmg depending on the range and spell and the ability to heal.
MCs are super gimped, can't do shit to MA and rekt by MM. Generally for turning limitations, mounts speed boosts, range and dmg of weapons. Not really viable against other mounteds, situational build for attacking foots i'd say.

I've fought many mounted mages with MA and i've allways found them easy to kill or kite, sometimes longer fights against more experienced mages but the overall dps range and versatility of MA makes it superior.

MA Is currently the most easy build for fighting and getting kills on mounteds, generally MA and MM the strongest setups for mounted groups, and when and if mounts have been killed the fight may end up in a foot confrontation when archery tends to be more situational depending on the type of encounter.

Why discuss mounteds conflicts, cuz they exist and theres a wide variety of situations where mounted fights occur, many times in contesting gathering places, transports, roams, etc.
Most of the times mounted fights are the previous step to end up in a foot fight.

That being said, MA ends up being the ultimate mount killer and its not precisely bad but other fighting classes need more resources to balance a little more.

 

[Mateyz]

If I take you off of that horse, you're practically dead and useless.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

If I take you off of that horse, you're practically dead and useless.

People have MA/foot builds don't be naive.

 

[KnightNi]

There really isn’t a downside, just like someone else said here, every foot fighter has archery no matter what cause it’s needed. Seems the only 2 counters to mounted archery is either another mounted archer or a foot fighter with a long bow, then again the MA can just ride away from the longbow man instead and disengage that target. MA is king against MC, MM, tamers and foot fighter that doesn’t have archery. There needs to be a increase in draw time when using it on horse, decrease in horse speed when bow is drawn back and some more sway. The speed decrease for the horse while the bow is drawn will help elevate everyone’s hate against them since they can’t just stay on your horses butt the entire time pooping your horse for 42 when it has heavy armor on

 

[Mateyz]

People have MA/foot builds don't be naive.

Yeah for sure, I'm just speaking from what I've seen in-game personally. Whenever I tend to take down a MA they usually die pretty quickly ahah.

 

[Kreedee]

There really isn’t a downside, just like someone else said here, every foot fighter has archery no matter what cause it’s needed. Seems the only 2 counters to mounted archery is either another mounted archer or a foot fighter with a long bow, then again the MA can just ride away from the longbow man instead and disengage that target. MA is king against MC, MM, tamers and foot fighter that doesn’t have archery. There needs to be a increase in draw time when using it on horse, decrease in horse speed when bow is drawn back and some more sway. The speed decrease for the horse while the bow is drawn will help elevate everyone’s hate against them since they can’t just stay on your horses butt the entire time pooping your horse for 42 when it has heavy armor on

This guy should be new lead balance dev.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

If I take you off of that horse, you're practically dead and useless.

Eh. Even if you take one's mount down they usually roam in groups of 2-3. But even then 90% can scrap as good as the rest. It's not like they can only use bows. There's really no way anyone can argue that MA is balance with MM and MC but I suppose you could argue that it's not supposed to be balanced and MA is supposed to be the default for everyone. So far I've never been attacked by a MM or MC but have fought many many MAs. Just the fact that 90% of players use MA show it's not balanced. But again you could argue that it's not supposed to be balanced

 

[Branjolf]

There really isn’t a downside, just like someone else said here, every foot fighter has archery no matter what cause it’s needed. Seems the only 2 counters to mounted archery is either another mounted archer or a foot fighter with a long bow, then again the MA can just ride away from the longbow man instead and disengage that target. MA is king against MC, MM, tamers and foot fighter that doesn’t have archery. There needs to be a increase in draw time when using it on horse, decrease in horse speed when bow is drawn back and some more sway. The speed decrease for the horse while the bow is drawn will help elevate everyone’s hate against them since they can’t just stay on your horses butt the entire time pooping your horse for 42 when it has heavy armor on

I feel like people expect beer when they go into a wine store.

The world is too big to play anything but mounted.

Why does the MA ride away? Cause losing your horse will take a big chunk of your play time, finding a horse spawn, getting a new one ... not to mention you need to have taming, otherwise suicide homepriest it is ... What happens if i dismount next to someone without a horse to kill him? He goes for my horse, since its actually more annoying to lose a horse than it is to die ... or in most cases they want to do as much dmg as possible before they die ...

Its sad to say that, but this game world and the farmable mobs are designed to be played by mounteds ... Not having a bow or being able to ride / tame is basically gimping yourself on purpose

 

[Khulan]

I think archery is very strong in PvE and very weak in PvP.

Give longbows access to the marksmanship skill please.

 

[fuatX]

what is the downisde of it?
Imho everything from PvE to PVP is more easy if you are an Archer, no?

where are the Mobs that cant be kitet or shot before they reach you?
Minos beeing suggested to get tanked as an Acher in heavy Armor and shot without the need to block?
what PvP situations dont start ranged and what are the situations you benefit from beeing a footfighter or mage?

is Archery op?
or is Archery the easy mode and everything else is harder and mage is the hardest?
why dont they get massive penalty from shooting in plate heavy armor like a mage is penalized and nerfed drastically?
why you can pull a bow on a horse in plate armor?
why you can pull a bow in heavy armor without any stam penalty or massive drain?

can some people exaplain?!

thanks in advance

İ created new char as a MA life is so ez now. For both pvp and pve. İ bow down to the meta. P.s : thnx henrick(sarcasm)

 

[Khulan]

Unless you have magery or a mage friend, MA PvP is just firing a couple impotent shots until your horse gets low HP and you have to run away to bandage.

I have EXTREME difficulty believing that a MA will stomp a non MA unless one of the following is true:

1) The MA has much higher quality gear than the footman.
2) The footman has no ranged damage options at all.
3) The footman is AFK.

Edit: I once watched a geared footman with a longbow fight and win against 3 MA at once. He just hid behind a tree and shot horses until the MA got scared and ran away.

 

[Goltarion]

Unless you have magery or a mage friend, MA PvP is just firing a couple impotent shots until your horse gets low HP and you have to run away to bandage.

I have EXTREME difficulty believing that a MA will stomp a non MA unless one of the following is true:

1) The MA has much higher quality gear than the footman.
2) The footman has no ranged damage options at all.
3) The footman is AFK.

Edit: I once watched a geared footman with a longbow fight and win against 3 MA at once. He just hid behind a tree and shot horses until the MA got scared and ran away.

i would be less annoyed at most MAs if they would actually fight you and try to kill you instead of just shooting your horse and leave. what kind of lame ass shit gameplay is that? And if their aim is trash and their horse gets low first, guess what? They ride off safely to heal the horse and try again. If you are not an MA yourself you cant do shit about it. There is nothing to lose for them and nothing to win for the non-MA.

 

[Gulith]

Give longbows access to the marksmanship skill please.

marksmanship skill is not dependant on what type of bow you are using.

 

[Tzone]

Unless you have magery or a mage friend, MA PvP is just firing a couple impotent shots until your horse gets low HP and you have to run away to bandage.

I have EXTREME difficulty believing that a MA will stomp a non MA unless one of the following is true:

1) The MA has much higher quality gear than the footman.
2) The footman has no ranged damage options at all.
3) The footman is AFK.

Edit: I once watched a geared footman with a longbow fight and win against 3 MA at once. He just hid behind a tree and shot horses until the MA got scared and ran away.

If you use broad heads on the long bow you can get weakspots. only bodkins and broadheads can WS. Longbow arrows cant weakspot but you can use broadheads on longbows.

 

[KnightNi]

I feel like people expect beer when they go into a wine store.

The world is too big to play anything but mounted.

Why does the MA ride away? Cause losing your horse will take a big chunk of your play time, finding a horse spawn, getting a new one ... not to mention you need to have taming, otherwise suicide homepriest it is ... What happens if i dismount next to someone without a horse to kill him? He goes for my horse, since its actually more annoying to lose a horse than it is to die ... or in most cases they want to do as much dmg as possible before they die ...

Its sad to say that, but this game world and the farmable mobs are designed to be played by mounteds ... Not having a bow or being able to ride / tame is basically gimping yourself on purpose

yea they need to add the same thing that mount and blade had where if you arent on your horse and it gets attacked it will run away, or atleast give me the option to make my horse "flee" when i dismount to enter foot combat. horses need a major health buff to make the game more about attacking the rider and not the horse cause it will be to beefy. Every other medieval game ive played always has beefy horses and you always attack the rider, if its a MC or a lancer then you would spear the horse to make it rear then poke the rider. beefyier horses would keep more player retention cause im sure most people who arent MA usually end up with their horse dead and the enemy horse dead and the winner gets to walk home with the loot while looking for a horse spawn

 

[Kaemik]

I think archery is very strong in PvE and very weak in PvP.

Give longbows access to the marksmanship skill please.

While you're at it. Make marksman an actually useful skill. Who goes for headshots on a weapon with arc, sway, and travel time?

Legolas? Aim-botters?

If you're fighting a player with a bow and not aiming center mass, you're using it wrong. Marksman as a skill needs to reward people playing the role right. It needs to effect torso shots at a minimum, and probably just be replaced with a far more useful skill. If bows are supposed to have a high chance to weakspot on headshots just give that to them instead of making it a 100 primary point skill.

 

[Rankor]

MA is great for PVE but gimped for PvP, except in certain instances. Right now, any melee can pick up archery, get a good bow and kill an MA horse. If that happens, most Full MA chars are completely overwhelmed on foot. As a full MA character, I've decided to pick up axes for when I do indeed end up on the ground, but I doubt I'd get the kill on a fully skilled melee.....even if they were hurt already. However, MA is great in a group and you can do wonders as a support player; even better if there is a mage to keep the horse alive.

 

[Khulan]

While you're at it. Make marksman an actually useful skill. Who goes for headshots on a weapon with arc, sway, and travel time?

Legolas? Aim-botters?

If you're fighting a player with a bow and not aiming center mass, you're using it wrong. Marksman as a skill needs to reward people playing the role right. It needs to effect torso shots at a minimum, and probably just be replaced with a far more useful skill. If bows are supposed to have a high chance to weakspot on headshots just give that to them instead of making it a 100 primary point skill.

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm getting at - only I actually think that marksmanship is a very useful skill. Being able to ignore the helmet's armour is extremely good value; but what you've said is right: If you're not aiming for center mass, you're going to miss far more often than you hit - and it's already pretty hard to hit.

Shortbows and asym bows can ignore armour, but longbows can't (dur, unless you're using not-longbow arrows). This seems somewhat backwards to me, and at the very least longbows should get the same benefit. You're already consigned to not being mounted while using a longbow, and the other types of bows can get quite close to the damage of a longbow, so why are longbows forced to only ever do 30 damage or so to some tin can's head where the other, 'weaker' bows can do 70 or 80 with marksmanship - and from on top of a horse to boot.