We need the naming conventions of the different races ASAP

[Tuhtram]

Considering that Name Reservations are now out there, this is more important than any other piece of lore at the moment. Anyone looking to pick a lore-accurate name currently cannot know if they're making an even remotely correct choice for many cultures, which may mean that their reservation may end up being wasted if information comes out later that they're entirely wrong and they may end up completely unhappy with their name because of it.

I know lore doesn't matter to many people, and that's fine, but if SV really want to commit to MO2's lore situation turning out differently than MO1's—this is a very time-sensitive thing that's important to some of the community even slightly interested in the lore.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Hey, @Henrik Nyström & all: @Tuhtram is right, you know.
(As per usual.)

If Star Vault has any existing, even reiterated ideas for-- for instance-- the languages of Clades and Races that we do not already know

More Or Less What We Think We Know, by Deduction
Tindremene: Sort of Roman & Greek
Huergar: Closer to the Oghmir clade's root than the Blainn, sort of Sumerian (not alone in this, for game languages)
Alvarin: Vaguely Celtic, Slavic, Scandinavian
Shinarian, and Sarducaan: Sort of Semitic (which covers a lot of territory)
Khurite: Mongolian, sort of
Kallard: Yeah, you know.

.... then now or SOON[™] would be a good time to put it out there. Otherwise, folks to whom it matters-- this kind of adherence to what YOU, the Developers, intend to express now & later-- will lose enthusiasm or make it up for themselves as they go along, just as before in MO1.

Star Vault would not be giving up state secrets or game-breaking advantages by doing it, either. They wouldn't be stifling anyone's creativity. That guild that wants to play as the Nac Mac Feegle can & will still do so.

Throw us a friggin' bone, here.

 

[Tuhtram]

More Or Less What We Think We Know, by Deduction
Tindremene: Sort of Roman & Greek
Huergar: Closer to the Oghmir clade's root than the Blainn, sort of Sumerian (not alone in this, for game languages)
Alvarin: Vaguely Celtic, Slavic, Scandinavian
Shinarian, and Sarducaan: Sort of Semitic (which covers a lot of territory)
Khurite: Mongolian, sort of
Kallard: Yeah, you know.

Love this, I do have some interesting information here:

• On the Discord, Mats confirmed that Meduli Tindremenes have a language similar to Greek, while Tindrem Tindremenes speak something more Latin/Italian. If the names follow this, then very Greek-inspired names may have distinct Medulian connotations while more Latin or Italian names may be more Tindrem Proper.
  • "Tindremic is an amalgamation of mostly Greek (old or southern Tindremic), Latin and Italian. The pronunciation would differ between regions and classes seeing as there are different dialects. "Official Tindremic" is probably close to (imaginary) Roman Latin and Venetian, with influences of northern Italian Firenze/Bologna dialects."
  • "Meduli dialect uses a lot of words from Old Tindremic (more Greek) while modern Tindremic has more Latin and Italian - unless you want to talk like a noble, or to a noble."
• The Varborg Tindremenes are, as always, a mystery. Linguistically it's hard to say exactly what they may be linguistically (my theory is English inspired) but they're another Tindremene origin possibility that one could consider when making a character.
• Mats gave us a few Huergar names from something he posted—which is the full form of the little excerpt we got in A New Dawn:

"Although a few Húergar scholars hold the great Motsoghmir, son of Oghma, as the sole creator of the Oghmir clade, the majority consort to the theory of a shared human ancestry: It is said that by the word of Oghma, Motsoghmir's shī (the word for soul, which in this case also seems to be some kind of holy breath), transformed a cave-dwelling, primitive human tribe into the first Oghmir damtum°. Of course, this damtum also came complete with the first Ersu and Eristu, king and queen, and from this līpu the entire Oghmir clade sprang forth. This is known as the Māsh-Êru, meaning the first awakening, or the becoming. As usual I questioned the rather unintelligible story, fishing for details on the shī, Motsoghmir, and the underlying reason for this remarkable event - and as usual my questions were met with nonsensical excerpts from songs and dusty old tomes°°.

On a side note, it is at least satisfying to be able to freely catechize these matters without fear of infringing on any doctrines or breaking any laws. It seems very few purely intellectual or theological matters are considered ikkubu in the Húergar society, unless they have to do with Dāmu, such as the Suluhhu or Surpu rituals, or the mysteries of Āsipūtu. Regarding practical matters though, needless to say I have never encountered a culture so dispositioned to secrecy."

Tarmachan-dé, "The Grounds Beneath Us", Chapter III, II – Revisiting the Urigallu

° For the canonical tree of the first damtum, see Appendix C
°° Nēpesh Māsh-Êru, O Nûru Ekeltu and Aaba Margidda to name the most prominent sources

(Tarmachan-de sticks out extremely as very Scottish, and likely not Huergar. Tarmachan means 'Ptarmigan', de means 'of'/'from'.)

• Khurites do have that clear Mongolian inspiration, but Mats has confirmed that Eastern and Western Khurites on Myrland speak a different dialect/language. They also use some Inuit words and even Amazonian words, I think they're sort of a very big 'catch all' category of Central Asia, East Asia, Southeast Asia, North and South America when it comes to inspirations. Beyond that, there are three ethnic groups of Khurites: Khurs (Myrland), Bediai (Sarducaa), Gákti (Nordveld). The Bediai claim to have resided in Sarducaa since even before the continents separated, so they probably have a completely different language going on too, and if the Gákti are the same situation then they probably have their own as well. (Gákti is a Sami word, so my theory is that's where their inspirations are). So there are multiple paths one could theoretically take in naming their Khurite.
• Shinarian is a huge shrug from me. If the Sidoian palindrome names are anything to go by, then they might not even have a direct real life thing to draw from.
• Sarducaans are in a weird spot, Mats has actually said that he didn't write the "Sarducaa Stories" section so that's getting retconned, and that the Cultists are getting retconned out of Sarducaan lore. There's also this:
  • "Sarducaa is more Sassanid/Sasanian Empire (Ērānshahr) and Achaemenid Empire (Xšāça) than "Arabic" (whatever that means), but there are many influences. Ancient Egyptian society and spiritual concepts, Pahlavi scripts, and Atakhsh/Mazdayasna mythology, to name a few.
    
    A common denominator is that the inspirational sources are predominantly "pre-Islamic"."

 

[Update Journal]

You cannot stop fartdad420 from reserving his name.
In seriousness though, you probably already have the correct idea and can safely choose a name based on the influences you have listed if you want a lore friendly name.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Sarducaans are in a weird spot, Mats has actually said that he didn't write the "Sarducaa Stories" section so that's getting retconned, and that the Cultists are getting retconned out of Sarducaan lore. There's also this:

• "Sarducaa is more Sassanid/Sasanian Empire (Ērānshahr) and Achaemenid Empire (Xšāça) than "Arabic" (whatever that means), but there are many influences. Ancient Egyptian society and spiritual concepts, Pahlavi scripts, and Atakhsh/Mazdayasna mythology, to name a few.
  
  A common denominator is that the inspirational sources are predominantly "pre-Islamic"."

I really like the idea (and would like to see it translated into action) that Mats is going to see to it that Sarducaa is retconned. Not "just before the continent comes out"; much sooner.

Imagine my disappointment, though to find out that Casilda's Amazigh (Berber) name is from a (non-Arab) culture on the wrong side of the Mediterranean.

 

[Tuhtram]

You cannot stop fartdad420 from reserving his name.
In seriousness though, you probably already have the correct idea and can safely choose a name based on the influences you have listed if you want a lore friendly name.

Some of them are on track seemingly, while others aren’t at all what you’d guess. Sidoians, for instance, have names that are palindromes, meaning the name “Olin Ilo” would likely be a Sidoian name. As they climb the social ladder and become more important in Sidoian society, letters are taken off of their names, so if they’re extremely referred the person mentioned may become Lin Il, then In I, then just N. Nobody would ever guess that, but many of the others are more reasonable conclusions.

We have enough examples to feel safe for a few of them. But Alvarin and Blainn stick out as the most likely to potentially screw someone over.

Listening to you guys talk about Lore is more fun than the MO Lore. And no, that's not backhanded.

You can start w/ the names of book writing people, I guess. Weirdest thing about MO npcs: mostly nameless.

Appreciated! I think honestly a lot of that has to do with the fact that so little of it is given in-game—especially in any rewarding way.

And yeah, we’ve got a list of the book writing NPCs and have tried to pick out the names from lore articles/posts. What’s tough is it’s been some centuries since the first game so we don’t know what’s going on anymore from MO1 examples.

I really like the idea (and would like to see it translated into action) that Mats is going to see to it that Sarducaa is retconned. Not "just before the continent comes out"; much sooner.

Imagine my disappointment, though to find out that Casilda's Amazigh (Berber) name is from a (non-Arab) culture on the wrong side of the Mediterranean.

Yeah I agree, I think Sarducaa—from a lore perspective of how it was meant to look and feel, flopped. There’s zero evidence of their hinted-at magocracy in-game, certain important settlements and areas were either downgraded or entirely ignored, Beth Jedda looked bad and goofy (I’m sorry SV, it wasn’t great—I don’t mean it as an insult and I have hope you’ll make it more grand with winding streets and more than 12 buildings), etc. (and don’t even get me started on the lack of Pari ruins, probably the thing I was the most excited about when I read it.)

Sarducaa is implied to be an fairly urban continent where most of the culture centers around these cities/towns with some wandering groups between. The different cities were even described as distinct, and without the crushing hand of being an Empire that purposefully homogenizes themselves like Tindrem—they should’ve been more unique from one another. They’re supposed to be full of the influences of mages and have beautiful architecture and all of that sort of thing. Where’d that go, y’know?

I can respect SV did what they could with what they had available at the time, at least. I just want them to give Sarducaa the content it’s meant to have this time. Tindrem isn’t the only nation that knows how to build roads.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

For those who would like random names generated for them to choose from based on a set of preferences and some of the popular universes out there, the Fantasy Name Generators might help: https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/