The strange thing about large group PvP in MO2

[PuckInmortali]

I've watched many of the PvP videos that have come out of this MO2 beta, and they have led me to ponder this question: Why do groups of players engaged in larger group PvP rarely, if ever, employ any sort of combat tactics based on actual medieval combat?

In many scenarios, wouldn't make sense to have a line of shield tanks in the front, while other melee combatants followed with pole weapons? Behind that you'd have casters, healing and basting, and behind them archers raining down arrows. In addition, you may even have cavalry preforming hit and runs on the flanks and to the rear of the opposing force.

On paper, MO2 looks like the type of game where something loosely based medieval battle tactics would make a large difference in the outcome. Yet, I can't think of a single video where I've seen this done. Why is that?

 

[ArcaneConsular]

A few reasons. First of all there aren't that many players that use shields. Secondly magic can still go through shields. Thirdly coordination like that is hard. Also factors like getting hit with an arrow isn't going to kill you in MO. And that in the past they used shields and spears which isn't possible in MO

 

[Piet]

You're right a lot of tactics work on paper and theory crafting. Most of them unfortunately don't work in actuality because the game isn't that realistic for instance if you had a ton of people in a front line like that to block the mages you would have to physically be side by side so they couldn't fit through since they don't die in one hit but that doesn't work because they can just run around you and if you swing you hit your friends. I say that however we have a different version of that same tactic just altered in a way that works for with the game. If you apply enough damage and have a ton of guys in a general area up front to apply it bypassing them for the mages becomes risky at best. My guild takes a lot of different tactics and applies them to the game in an adjusted way that will work with what the game is so it's def possible.

 

[Najwalaylah]

It's been tried. It's not really that strange that some of it isn't still tried.

groups of players engaged in larger group PvP rarely, if ever, employ any sort of combat tactics based on actual medieval combat

Long ago during MO1 Beta i belonged to a guild that had practiced formations. They were not really able to use them to their advantage.
They also didn't understand prediction very well, despite multiple attempts on the part of various players (members trained in other guilds, allies, and 'enemies' alike) who understood it well to explain it to them.

a line of shield tanks in the front, while other melee combatants followed with pole weapons

That would still not work as well as planned, for the reasons that @ArcaneConsular cites.

You're right a lot of tactics work on paper and theory crafting. Most of them unfortunately don't work in actuality because the game isn't that realistic...

Good example here:

if you had a ton of people in a front line like that to block the mages you would have to physically be side by side so they couldn't fit through since they don't die in one hit but that doesn't work because they can just run around you and if you swing you hit your friends.

And the result, as I vividly recall, of spending time that should be spent actually guarding assets & beating the bounds of your territory on practicing useless formations instead is the same as continuing to try the same non-working tactic over & over while expecting different results; it qualifies as insanity.

 

[Kuthara]

I've watched many of the PvP videos that have come out of this MO2 beta, and they have led me to ponder this question: Why do groups of players engaged in larger group PvP rarely, if ever, employ any sort of combat tactics based on actual medieval combat?

In many scenarios, wouldn't make sense to have a line of shield tanks in the front, while other melee combatants followed with pole weapons? Behind that you'd have casters, healing and basting, and behind them archers raining down arrows. In addition, you may even have cavalry preforming hit and runs on the flanks and to the rear of the opposing force.

On paper, MO2 looks like the type of game where something loosely based medieval battle tactics would make a large difference in the outcome. Yet, I can't think of a single video where I've seen this done. Why is that?

I think your mistake here is thinking that they don't. Taking into account that this is a fantasy game with it's limitations and huge differences to the real world you will still see solid historical strategy deployed by large groups.

For example the recent siege of Tindrem where the attacking force was led by a group of guilds belonging in the main to a single coalition, within a single coms.

Fight starts -

Archery and skirmish. Whittle down the opposing force and force them to become disorganised.
Infantry moves to engage, leaving mages behind the front rank to support
Remaining Archers move to right flank, pepper opposing Cavalry bringing down several that tried to rush the front line
Attacking Cavalry flank left, decimate enemy cavalry and then run across the back line of enemy
Several times the front line is redeployed to address threats or to push weaknesses while Cavalry corales the force to where we want it
False retreat forces over extension of enemy from walls and is then capitalised on with a counter push to rout the defenders

There is actually a lot that goes into a large scale fight that from the outside you may not actually see as it all happens behind closed doors within a coms channel.

We deploy historical tactics in everything we do. You just need to make them work for the game.

We have won every large scale stress test battle set up by Henrik. It is not because we just throw our guys at the enemy. Tactics, deployment, movement are key.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Shield walls, spear phalanx, testudos, and various other battle formation didnt just happen you know.
People didnt just show up for war and instantly managed battle coreography on the fly.

they trained for years, day in and day out. And they were disciplined into following orders without thought.

not exactly what a bunch of gaming nerds are like.

 

[PuckInmortali]

So, what I am reading (if I am understanding correctly) is that these tactics don't translate perfectly to MO2, though to a certain extent they are effective. Their use (at least the part that is effective) is primarily governed by the high level of organization required. It is good to know that they will pop up from time to time in well organized groups. I think that will make these types of engagements more enjoyable, even from the perspective of a simple observer.