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SPinning / twisty animation pvp bad
- Thread starter rgarrett
- Start date
That's a sporting environment in hand to hand martial arts. In a battle with swords and other weapons where your life is on the line, turning your back to your opponent = death. Has been documented for decades of battle.
And in a non sporting environment where your defending yourself, even the best ufc fighters don't spin. So stop it XD.
It doesnt matter that its an sport environment, an mma fight is the closest thing to a 1v1 street fight. What works there will work in any open space like a parking lot, etc.
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Dracu
Guest
This again... My god... I dont understand the blaming players for using it. Ppl have been asking for the removal of spins as a necassity for combat for ages. SV just doesnt do it. They either dont know how, or dont want to invest time to figure it out. There have been alot of suggestions from combat alpha to now, but spin2win was never changed. It was and always will be a big part of this game... Sadly...
For spins to be removed from the game, there needs to be a better alternative, and that was never introduced.
For spins to be removed from the game, there needs to be a better alternative, and that was never introduced.
LOL, no its not. In fact spinning , even in the octagon is considered a risky move that fighters should not do if they want a consistent record. You know jack shit about combat if you think people in streets fights, with no knowledge of the motives of their opponent is spinning. XD
Nobody saying people cant do ballet and spin all the way to success bro, i think its a fine discipline.
It sounds to me like you're describing footsies, poking, whiff-punishing in a fighting game. This game will not have footsies or spacing based combat without hit-stun, because even if you space your attack better, the opponent will just walk up and trade with you. I think most people would say the networking can't handle hit stun, and they are probably right.
If the networking won't allow for reaction-based combat, then it will have to lean on a more macro-strategy-combat like other MMOs (resource management, cooldown management, etc.). In MO, this would be stamina management. Higher threat attacks that drain your stamina... maybe hits in the legs can damage stamina or cause you to use more when moving for a short while. The system in general needs the same treatment that MO gave to almost all of it's other features - depth and nuance.
What it has currently is a reaction-based attack/parry system that is "ping-normalized" to intentionally remove the reaction component making every fight a stalemate. Which the players then use spins to re-add the reaction component that was intentionally removed for latency fairness.
Looks more like his opponent was just an idiot, 1 he panicked, 2 he took his hands away from his face, 3 he backed him self up into a corner, 4 he tried to go for a kick but decided to stop the kick half way through an than lost his balance seconds before being hit. Raymond spinning had nothing to do with being able to land the hit.
An yes this is a sporting fighting, in a real fight the logical thing to do would be to tackle Raymond when he was in the air sense he literally wouldn't have any way to stop you or keep his balance with nothing but air under his feet, but in a boxing match tackling isn't allowed.
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It seems ur the one that knows jack shit about fighting. Any move in a fight is risky if done at the wrong time, but unless you are fighting outnumbered, it will 100% work on a 1v1 street fight. Only moves that are banned in mma are soccer kicks, grounded knees, headbutts, eye gouging, lowblows, etc. which mainly affect the grappling/clinching not the striking.
Ppl spin in street fights all the time
Its almost as if the spin made him panic and he couldnt read what Raymond was gonna throw, yeah Im sure it had nothing to do with him landing the punch ROFL
And this is an mma fight LOL you can tackle, takedown, slam, etc. Closest thing to a real fight you will get.
Right
But either way this game rarely has 1v1 fights anyway it usually just 1v zerg, zerg v zerg, or mounted archer vs helpless miner/gather.
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I 100% agree with the premise that ballerina spins are not a good way to make combat more skilled. They're just a very ridiculous/janky feeling mechanic kind of like Darkfall bunnyhopping.
And I 100% agree they DO make combat more skilled and if removed need to be replaced by other methods of achieving the same goal that's a better fit for the game/less janky.
And I 100% agree they DO make combat more skilled and if removed need to be replaced by other methods of achieving the same goal that's a better fit for the game/less janky.
I think its how most of us feel. Some people will always just say "get good" or whatever though since they have invested so much time in the spinning combat and they don't have an issue with it. They don't really care if its stupid or not, as long as it isn't hindering them.
Kinda the story of Mortal Online here. Reminds me of breeding and mounted combat, abusing prediction, pets, etc. People are just biased on things due to their playstyle. The real people to blame here, as always, is the developers of the game.
Personally I'd like to see faster swing speeds, or the ability to feint an instantly swing your weapon for full dmg without having to charge it again but with a high stam cost for doing it this way it not spammed. Issue right now is it takes 1-3 seconds (depends on weapon weight) to fully charge an swing the average human reaction time is 0.15 seconds this is statically enough time to easily see what your opponent doing an block in time without fail 100% of the time with very little skill required to time your block. The only reason spinning exist is to confuse your opponent into blocking the wrong direction.
Also parry shouldn't completely mitigate dmg it should only reduce it by about 70-80%, simple put even if you block a sledge hammer before it hits you directly the force alone will still hurt your arms.
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Look dude anyone with any kwowlege at all about combat, is aware that any move comes with risk. But those risks are calculated. Spinning especially for sword fighting has never been a viable tactic ever recorded through combat history. It has and will always have a history of getting people killed or generally losing their fights.
You have a Spartan PFP you might want to change that to a ballerina, because you don't deserve to be rocking that speaking straight nonsense.
The mere fact you are even defending it will clips from a sport, and randoes. Blows my mind , and tells me you get your understanding of combat from holly-wood movies.
Go to any of the mix martial arts subreditt, or kendo etc.... and say that dumb shit.You will get flamed to high heavens. Everyone is fully aware that its a sport and thats what makes the flashy spins cool when they land, but anyone, even a fresh noob to the octagon knows dont spin.
Now mind you, we are talking about swords and medieval fighting when discussing m02, so your already making yourself look dumb when you say spinning is good XD. Legit sounds like someone who has never in his life fought someone before. XD
Yeah Im sure the octagon is magical and somehow allows spins to work but in a "non sporting environment" they defy the laws of physics xD
I have 720 spin wheel kicked so many kids like you on the streets who didnt believe in spins, until they were unconcious xD
And it works with swords too
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Spinning takes very little time to learn and can be done without the dpi change stuff, however it does look terrible and exaggerates poor combat.
If you are going to go the IRL route at least get the facts right, you might be able to spin in a controlled environment where your life isn't on the line but when learning any form of sword combat your instructor will tell you the reason not many sword fighters (samurai or HEMA) were spinning was because the ones that did, didn't survive long.
MMA is not the same as a real fight, like the difference between Japanese and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, one is to defend your life the other is to make some dude tap out
If you are going to go the IRL route at least get the facts right, you might be able to spin in a controlled environment where your life isn't on the line but when learning any form of sword combat your instructor will tell you the reason not many sword fighters (samurai or HEMA) were spinning was because the ones that did, didn't survive long.
MMA is not the same as a real fight, like the difference between Japanese and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, one is to defend your life the other is to make some dude tap out
There is more space than you think to get outside w/ o getting traded (I'm trash and I'd take my chances in a no parry swing fest) and if they add in a counter for hitting people who missed (like counter reduce), it would be even more brutal. The swings come out as arcs, OH comes straight down, since it's a complete circle of space, there is actually room to do a lot of shit. Add parry on top of that and you've got some wild shit. You have to imagine it as top down or like bushido blade level. You can hit someone with the tip of your sword, not facing them, and moving away so that they really don't have the ability to hit back even if the weps are of the same length and you are the same speed, because they have to charge. Or if they already have their attack drawn, the skill comes from getting in an area where they can't hit you, feinting them into swinging first before you come in, or feinting them into believing you are going into an area then going into a diff area. We're talking like the space between the furthest-longest tip of a swing arc hitting the tip of their hit box on the non drawn side and keeping moving. When things get moving fast, you will see that someone will end up coming on top with movement even if both are just spamming swings (assuming they are trying to dodge lol.) Sure, all things being perfectly equal maybe it would be like tic tac toe and the person who got the first hit would win, but things rarely turn out that well w/ human nerves and so many other factors ( esp w/ parry in there, too.)
looool another vid. Dead at the slow motion parts. I mean, that's the sad part re:realism is it probably would be slow moving face up stuff and not exactly easy to emulate in a game and make it skill based, but the spin is just a meme. The reason it's a meme is not because a spin cannot be useful. I'm pretty bad @ MO and I'll do various spins or part spins, and nobody 'taught me' nor did I practice it, it's just an intuitive move... come in on a fighter, spin and swing on someone else. Even the spin speed itself is not too fast imo (unless people straight have a macro to do drillspin level stuff,) but it's just the fact that it's the face up meta that is memey and probably drives players from the game.
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I know I "can't say this," cuz I'm not good at Mo2, and I wasn't good at Mo1, but the fact that the arguments are all "LOLLL IM SO BAD CANT READ DIRECTION TAKE AWAY SPIN CRRIESSSSS" from the people who are pro spin is kind of telling. ALAS, we see what is happening to MO2.
I hope to come back and play if they fix a lot of the game. I won't be good no matter how they change the combat. Well, probably not. But I mean just for the health of the game and attracting interest/fun... I'm not seeing how many people other than the get pwnd nub crowd enjoys this. And I wonder if even THEY enjoy it. The spins itself are not bad, it's just the combat and the imbalance between parry speed and swing speed that is so awful. O well, like I said, enjoy the game if that's how ya want it.
Appreciate the reply. There's mine, but that's all I got!
what do you purpose lol half these kids always call scripts when your 1v2ing and your parrying both attacks cause they don't know how to attack at the same time cause brain dead