Should blocks have a cooldown before you can block again

[Strilan]

I think I'd prefer making feinting more fluid, the minimum swing timer lessened, with significantly less damage on a fast / uncharged attack than a fully charged one.

Like - an uncharged swing would do 5-10, while a fully charged would do 25-30. <--- something like that

 

[Buffallo]

I think I'd prefer making feinting more fluid, the minimum swing timer lessened, with significantly less damage on a fast / uncharged attack than a fully charged one.

Like - an uncharged swing would do 5-10, while a fully charged would do 25-30. <--- something like that

more fluid feinting is in the direction of higher skill requirement for noobs. Slower block would put feint in their wheelhouse while retaining diversity of skillsets that lead to gratifying kills.

 

[Rorry]

more fluid feinting is in the direction of higher skill requirement for noobs. Slower block would put feint in their wheelhouse.

Don't build combat systems around newbs. It should take time and practice to master combat.

 

[Buffallo]

Don't build combat systems around newbs. It should take time and practice to master combat.

well I've seen many people come from "harder" games into mo1 and it took them a whole lot of time to master that system. We are up against a wall with Henriks vision if we "ignore the noob".

making blocking more skillful doesn't cheapen the combat for me it would make positioning better, include feints, and still give options vs the better players instead of taking them away.

 

[Speznat]

I like it how it is now, now you actually have a chance to fight even as a fight retard like me xD

its also better because fghts lasts longer os more fun. xD

just my perspective, yours can defer.
Anyway happy fighting

 

[Kaemik]

No for sure. If this were implemented I would take a fairly light weapon and just absolutely spam. Especially if dual wielding got in then I'd offhand a dagger and something heavy to break the block then smash them with something big.

If we want a block breaker attack I say just make a block breaker attack for certain weapons. Give it a unique and very readable animation so people can attempt to dodge and make it drain stam like a mofo.

Not saying this 100% for sure belongs in-game. But I could definitely see it potentially having a place.

 

[Buffallo]

Happy fights

 

[Buffallo]

No for sure. If this were implemented I would take a fairly light weapon and just absolutely spam. Especially if dual wielding got in then I'd offhand a dagger and something heavy to break the block then smash them with something big.

If we want a block breaker attack I say just make a block breaker attack for certain weapons. Give it a unique and very readable animation so people can attempt to dodge and make it drain stam like a mofo.

Not saying this 100% for sure belongs in-game. But I could definitely see it potentially having a place.

Are you against the speed buffs for landed swings because that is more of the same. Atm people can spam and block with a fast weapon

 

[Kaemik]

I'm not sure if I'm against it but I'm sure as heck going to test it now. XD

Appreciate the tip.

 

[BlackOpsy]

No. I hate artificial caps.

Combat is great. It can use tweaking but its in Alpha/beta. If you are really good you can still melt down people quick. You just cannot steam roll people anymore without a fight being put up, which is great if you want this game to have a healthy pop. If you guys want quick TTK's play COD.

Please don't increase combat speed. With more people, bows, magic coming, I'm sure people will die even faster. Part of the big problem with Darkfall, MO, etc was steam rolling of people. I personally like the increased fighting, more skill and tactics. You can be in your 30's and compete with 18 year olds.

 

[Buffallo]

No. I hate artificial caps.

Combat is great. It can use tweaking but its in Alpha/beta. If you are really good you can still melt down people quick. You just cannot steam roll people anymore without a fight being put up, which is great if you want this game to have a healthy pop. If you guys want quick TTK's play COD.

Please don't increase combat speed. With more people, bows, magic coming, I'm sure people will die even faster. Part of the big problem with Darkfall, MO, etc was steam rolling of people. I personally like the increased fighting, more skill and tactics. You can be in your 30's and compete with 18 year olds.

You just said you don't like artificial caps but isn't a speed reduction an artificial cap? Isn't slower movement making all the things you listed even easier?

what would be the increased skill and tactics that you mentioned. I need a clearer picture

 

[BlackOpsy]

You just said you don't like artificial caps but isn't a speed reduction an artificial cap? Isn't slower movement making all the things you listed even easier?

what would be the increased skill and tactics that you mentioned. I need a clearer picture

The artificial cap I am referencing too is if you block or attempt to block you cant block again for .5 to 1 second. To me that is a artificial cap. Yes there will always be animations etc. There are always game mechanics...

Here is my bottom line where I am coming from hate it or love it.

Darkfall, MO, and several other full loot pvp games all tried to go with fast TTK's. None of them made it and died out or minimal following. Because it's all about reflexes and being young. or macroing magic/skills. Fast speed is about reflex speed skills. No one wants to waste there time playing, getting mats, and be melt down in a second due to not being young , at different location on the globe, poor computer, or whatever. I can symphonize. "getgud", they will just leave...

Slower is about thinking/tactics and you still need some skill to read your opponent. Medieval combat was pretty slow paced. The slower pace allows people with bad or great pings, people older or younger, to put up a fight. I see people get melted down even with the current speed but at least they can do something. Also, tactics? you have time to lure / use the environment to make miss/collides happen, you can actually guard/block and maybe might survive until you get help, you can survive and get into a alley way and fight 1 at a time instead of being zerged. You get time to live/fight. We get longer fights which is awesome. I know some people here are very competitive and skilled and want COD ttk reflexes, I think that is a bad idea in this genera. Mount and Blade isnt fast paced and it's very successful. I think the devs are going the right direction personally.

 

[Kaemik]

Personally, the reason I recommended block breakers is that they would have the potential to increase skill. I'll specify more. So a block breaker would be a heavy attack with a much higher stam cost. If it isn't blocked but lands it would do the damage of a fully charged hit and stagger your opponent preventing block temporarily. If it is blocked it does no damage but still does the stagger. If it misses / gets dodged it does nothing. To feed into the whole stam thing I would make this a 2h exclusive move and might even make it exclusive to some of the heavier varients of 2h weapons. For instance, a heavy great blade would get it while a khurite blade may not.

You give it a very obvious animation and even a sound effect so the opponent knows it's coming.

So as the one using it you're consciously spending stam to make a heavy hit that will break the opponent's block. Not just 0.5 or 1 seconds this should be enough to get off 2-3 hits if you can stickyback them. Making full use of this ability means landing it and then making the most of the follow-up time, or using it to open the enemy to an ally but it leaves you way down on stam so if you use this frequently you'll get stammed mid-fight.

On the defending end you can no longer just parry, you have to dodge or you're going to have a bad day. So you need to be aware and ready to move when you see this coming. The fact that it's going to be coming from a 2h weapon means dodging might not be easy if the enemy sprints into you and aims well. But if you do manage a dodge your enemy just ate their stam for nothing. And even if they do land it, you might be able to sprint away or something to avoid taking the hits while you're vulnerable.

I'm sure where you can see how that increases the skill needed on both ends. I also think it would be a huge help to polearms/poleswords which would likely be heavy enough, have a big ol' hit arc, and feel a bit gimped in the current meta for weapons that take 200 primary points instead of 100.

____

That being said, like I've said in other topics, I REALLY want to see magic make it in before we do too much to end the parry meta. I'm assuming just like ranged you won't be able to parry magic. If melees are cleaving through each other too fast AND magic is hard countering their defenses I think we may swing too far the other direction.

 

[Buffallo]

The artificial cap I am referencing too is if you block or attempt to block you cant block again for .5 to 1 second. To me that is a artificial cap. Yes there will always be animations etc. There are always game mechanics...

Here is my bottom line where I am coming from hate it or love it.

Darkfall, MO, and several other full loot pvp games all tried to go with fast TTK's. None of them made it and died out or minimal following. Because it's all about reflexes and being young. or macroing magic/skills. Fast speed is about reflex speed skills. No one wants to waste there time playing, getting mats, and be melt down in a second due to not being young , at different location on the globe, poor computer, or whatever. I can symphonize. "getgud", they will just leave...

Slower is about thinking/tactics and you still need some skill to read your opponent. Medieval combat was pretty slow paced. The slower pace allows people with bad or great pings, people older or younger, to put up a fight. I see people get melted down even with the current speed but at least they can do something. Also, tactics? you have time to lure / use the environment to make miss/collides happen, you can actually guard/block and maybe might survive until you get help, you can survive and get into a alley way and fight 1 at a time instead of being zerged. You get time to live/fight. We get longer fights which is awesome. I know some people here are very competitive and skilled and want COD ttk reflexes, I think that is a bad idea in this genera. Mount and Blade isnt fast paced and it's very successful. I think the devs are going the right direction personally.

Rspectfully misseur,

You said it makes games with high ttk about reflexes. Mo1 actually had high ttk and LOW reflexes overall except for spin which was not idealized because it wasnt that necessary. This would be a reflex cap and you are trying to make it on the basis that thise games left you eith s bad taste in your mouth. If you liked mortal 1 why throw out what made you pleased?

 

[Buffallo]

Personally, the reason I recommended block breakers is that they would have the potential to increase skill. I'll specify more. So a block breaker would be a heavy attack with a much higher stam cost. If it isn't blocked but lands it would do the damage of a fully charged hit and stagger your opponent preventing block temporarily. If it is blocked it does no damage but still does the stagger. If it misses / gets dodged it does nothing. To feed into the whole stam thing I would make this a 2h exclusive move and might even make it exclusive to some of the heavier varients of 2h weapons. For instance, a heavy great blade would get it while a khurite blade may not.

You give it a very obvious animation and even a sound effect so the opponent knows it's coming.

So as the one using it you're consciously spending stam to make a heavy hit that will break the opponent's block. Not just 0.5 or 1 seconds this should be enough to get off 2-3 hits if you can stickyback them. Making full use of this ability means landing it and then making the most of the follow-up time, or using it to open the enemy to an ally but it leaves you way down on stam so if you use this frequently you'll get stammed mid-fight.

On the defending end you can no longer just parry, you have to dodge or you're going to have a bad day. So you need to be aware and ready to move when you see this coming. The fact that it's going to be coming from a 2h weapon means dodging might not be easy if the enemy sprints into you and aims well. But if you do manage a dodge your enemy just ate their stam for nothing. And even if they do land it, you might be able to sprint away or something to avoid taking the hits while you're vulnerable.

I'm sure where you can see how that increases the skill needed on both ends. I also think it would be a huge help to polearms/poleswords which would likely be heavy enough, have a big ol' hit arc, and feel a bit gimped in the current meta for weapons that take 200 primary points instead of 100.

____

That being said, like I've said in other topics, I REALLY want to see magic make it in before we do too much to end the parry meta. I'm assuming just like ranged you won't be able to parry magic. If melees are cleaving through each other too fast AND magic is hard countering their defenses I think we may swing too far the other direction.

Block breakers would be a low cost ckill which takes the place of a diverse set of offences. It also can be done in groups.

 

[Buffallo]

Block breakers would be a low cost ckill which takes the place of a diverse set of offences. It also can be done in groups.

If block timing were slowed it would revalue all swings.

 

[Kavu]

Why do you include the audio in these clips? It's always a mix of your clicking, breathing, and one of us jabbering in the background about something unrelated

 

[Kaemik]

Block breakers would be a low cost ckill which takes the place of a diverse set of offences. It also can be done in groups.

I wouldn't call it low cost at all. If it's exclusive to heavy weapons and has a huge cost beyond the normal cost you'd potentially drain like half your stam in one swing. Especially given you're probably going to want to sprint into the target as you swing. And yes it could be very effective in groups but if a bunch of melees pounce on the same target at the same time friendly fire could become a major issue. If they manage to stay on the target they probably deserve the kill.

If it is too powerful you might implement the ability to use your own stamina to double tap a or d and do a sidejump to get out of the way at the same time.

I definitely think it's more interesting than a system that seems to just incentivize running at my target and swinging wildly. Mind you I'm good at THAT. But I deserve to suck at melee in this game. You really shouldn't grant me a system where I can actually win by button mashing because I WILL use it. XD

 

[Buffallo]

I wouldn't call it low cost at all. If it's exclusive to heavy weapons and has a huge cost beyond the normal cost you'd potentially drain like half your stam in one swing. Especially given you're probably going to want to sprint into the target as you swing. And yes it could be very effective in groups but if a bunch of melees pounce on the same target at the same time friendly fire could become a major issue. If they manage to stay on the target they probably deserve the kill.

If it is too powerful you might implement the ability to use your own stamina to double tap a or d and do a sidejump to get out of the way at the same time.

I definitely think it's more interesting than a system that seems to just incentivize running at my target and swinging wildly. Mind you I'm good at THAT. But I deserve to suck at melee in this game. You really shouldn't grant me a system where I can actually win by button mashing because I WILL use it. XD

Mo1 didn't do that it incentived well placed movements when handling multiple opponents at one time. That type of blockbreaker is a bit more sound but it isn't really as superb as having a mainstream set of options for all combat that is a superflous solution to a bottleneck of options. I'm not even saying it should be done away with but really wouldn't tighten up the majority of combat all at once.

 

[Teknique]

Why do you include the audio in these clips? It's always a mix of your clicking, breathing, and one of us jabbering in the background about something unrelated

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