Poll: Do You Like The New Combat

[Eldrath]

Only watched videos of a teamfight and some duels and even though swing speed did look a bit slow from first person it also felt like the "time to kill" was really more due to weapons dealing super low amounts of damage.

If parrying was made easier then the penalty for not parrying correctly should maybe be a bit harsher (by increasing damage taken).

Be careful with those assessments. Most are still using starter armors, which give steel protection and 0 weight. Realistically those plate armors with that protection would give you higher stam drain etc. which obviously is missing due to the starter armors.

I´ve been using hybrid armor a the last two days and been hit for 40s to 50s with "normal" weapons. Merely increasing damage might make non-footfighter classes in non-steel armor extremely squishy. Tbh they are already. A normal greatblade in the days of skill did maybe 30 damage to hybrid armor, now that is much highter.

At this point they need to remove starter armors or make them way less effective. They are creating false perceptions and are basically useless for testing anyhow.

 

[Bathor]

Be careful with those assessments. Most are still using starter armors, which give steel protection and 0 weight. Realistically those plate armors with that protection would give you higher stam drain etc. which obviously is missing due to the starter armors.

I´ve been using hybrid armor a the last two days and been hit for 40s to 50s with "normal" weapons. Merely increasing damage might make non-footfighter classes in non-steel armor extremely squishy. Tbh they are already. A normal greatblade in the days of skill did maybe 30 damage to hybrid armor, now that is much highter.

At this point they need to remove starter armors or make them way less effective. They are creating false perceptions and are basically useless for testing anyhow.

It tried to express it as a careful guess - if the starter-armor is not what you would typically see on the battlefield then my guess is completely off, of course.

Is the combat alpha done with completely unrealistic gear then or is the gear something one would typically see on the battlefield?

 

[Eldrath]

It tried to express it as a careful guess - if the starter-armor is not what you would typically see on the battlefield then my guess is completely off, of course.

Is the combat alpha done with completely unrealistic gear then or is the gear something one would typically see on the battlefield?

It is unrealistic in the way that the protection on average is too high, thus the time to kill is slightly to high. With the current system I doubt that we will see any medium armors being used since it works with thresholds. So it will be as heavy as you can afford and the usual mage armor sets.

That´s why I made a thread about armor crafting. You can see how this system is gonna bottleneck combat in a major way.

 

[ThaBadMan]

It tried to express it as a careful guess - if the starter-armor is not what you would typically see on the battlefield then my guess is completely off, of course.

Is the combat alpha done with completely unrealistic gear then or is the gear something one would typically see on the battlefield?

If you currently make a steel suit like the one we are currently using as starter armor, its worse in defense and obv alot heavier, so unless things change I dont see steel as norm on battlefields for a good amount of time.

But it all depends on the penalties around heavy and heavier armor.

 

[Rorry]

I have been using plate scale with different types of armor from 7 wt to 14wt and get hit for 30 to 70 in a group fight.

 

[Rorry]

I do like the combat in this patch, but I used a 2hand sword some the last couple of days and it does seem that SV should be able to speed up those swings without hurting the combat. Specifically the swords seem slower than other things. Axes even seem faster, which shouldn't be the case.

Edit: Added. I made a 2h hammer which ways virtually the same as the sword and it swings much faster. I notice that the strength requirement is high on the swords, so maybe adjusting that would help enough. I notice a lot of people still using swords.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I do like the combat in this patch, but I used a 2hand sword some the last couple of days and it does seem that SV should be able to speed up those swings without hurting the combat. Specifically the swords seem slower than other things. Axes even seem faster, which shouldn't be the case.

Edit: Added. I made a 2h hammer which ways virtually the same as the sword and it swings much faster. I notice that the strength requirement is high on the swords, so maybe adjusting that would help enough. I notice a lot of people still using swords.

Yes compared to weapons supposed to be slower the swing is very slow for swords.

 

[Eldrath]

Be careful when talking about speed. I did some testing and sometimes because of th length of weapon things feel slower than they actually are.

Sadly the testing showed that shield crafting seems to be somewhat one dimentional currently in terms of the effect that a shield has on your fighting style.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Be careful when talking about speed. I did some testing and sometimes because of th length of weapon things feel slower than they actually are.

Sadly the testing showed that shield crafting seems to be somewhat one dimentional currently in terms of the effect that a shield has on your fighting style.

Will be interesting to see once we have all materials. Dont help that the most used swords atm are tungsteel.

 

[Rorry]

Will be interesting to see once we have all materials. Dont help that the most used swords atm are tungsteel.

Ye, when people can no longer wear starter armor and the damage output won't be quite as vital in a lot of fights people may opt for something lighter, as well.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I don't like the combat. It favors numbers / hit trading.

If swimming hadn't of been added, the antics I had got up to wouldn't of been possible because of numbers.

There is definitely still a discernable difference in skill though between two groups.

Duels feel shit. 1vX kind of blows because anyone smart would just sit and parry if they were focused.

The last time I brought up Mordhau people got super effected and tunnel visioned and kept crying that comparing Mordhau to MO2 isn't 'good' because one is an MMO whilst the other is an instanced, typically team based deathmatch kind of game.

But I'll say it again, the competitive community of Mordhau fucking flopped hard when they made tight turn caps, slowed combat down, and made everyone able to do anything (basically use heavier armor with harder hitting / longer weapons.) They also nerfed a lot of weapons which in turn made the game feel more stiff and artificially raised the time to kill someone.

I see MO2 going down that route right now, in group fights its a toss up; but some aspects of the combat feel insanely slow to the point that focusing one guy down (solo) in a group fight doesn't work like it did in MO1 given swing speed, movement, delay, etc.

Something that became very effective in Mordhau comp. was target switching. Targeg switching was basically tricking your current focused target into thinking you were going to hit him, but then at the last second 'switching' to focus someone else. Now the problem with this is not the effectiveness of the tactic in Mordhau or in MO2, the problen is in Mordhau people generally die in 3-4 hits with most comp. viable weapons, however MO2 is much different because the combat is significantly slower, there are less offensive options (for now), there is still clunky-ness to it all like the bumping into one another and the hang with swing releases.

If I had to rate the combat on a scale from 0 to 10, I'd say it is currently a 4.5.

Hit trading, overly defensive playstyles encouraged, only offensive option is to swarm or bait free hits, etc. Just doesn't feel skillful or that rewarding.

Also, Eldrath is saying what I've been saying for a while. Not to say he took it, but I agree with the idea that this stupid grey area of rules on griefing and trolling have significantly reduced the chance of testing things of all aspects. Consensual group fights and duels do not always yield the information you need and if you believe it does you are truly ignorant. What kills me is when lets say I go to play and bring friends to mess around, we just have people threatening to report us; like Rolufe. It's just sad that we are constrained to play a COMBAT ALPHA a specific way.

Fix the rules, or just get rid of them. It's not like everyone is even held accountable fot breaking them, even if a report is made.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Ye, when people can no longer wear starter armor and the damage output won't be quite as vital in a lot of fights people may opt for something lighter, as well.

Things gonna change for sure, which is my problem with testing fictional gear and not canon gear.

I brought this up in the very beginning and was reassured, but ofc things change and its no longer so.

 

[MolagAmur]

No in EU.
Will be a pain to solo roam.
Combat to slow.
Time to kill too high.
Everything heavier than a sword feels miserable to fight with.

This.

Everything is in slow motion. Swing speed is too slow. Movement speed changes are meh, but i get may be necessary.

If combat could be sped back up a bit more and every weapon doesn't feel like a massive slegehammer...it would be fairly solid.

 

[Dracu]

spam spam spam Hitn run hittrade style woop woop. Tungsteel spear woop woop.
As long as i can force somebody to not release their counter immediatley i can go for hittrade
...best comparission for it i have heard so far... gambling

 

[Steinerr]

Its.

Simply.

Not.

Fun. (COMBAT)

Subbing every month for that? Not worth

Subbing every month so i could hang with friends and kill people? Worth

It is what it is.

 

[Pierre]

Also, Eldrath is saying what I've been saying for a while. Not to say he took it, but I agree with the idea that this stupid grey area of rules on griefing and trolling have significantly reduced the chance of testing things of all aspects. Consensual group fights and duels do not always yield the information you need and if you believe it does you are truly ignorant. What kills me is when lets say I go to play and bring friends to mess around, we just have people threatening to report us; like Rolufe. It's just sad that we are constrained to play a COMBAT ALPHA a specific way.

Fix the rules, or just get rid of them. It's not like everyone is even held accountable fot breaking them, even if a report is made.

Nonconsensual fights and griefing stalls the testing of too many critical features. For the purposes of an alpha, this causes more harm than good. Nonconsensual fights could be something better tested in a beta or after full release; it is an overall hinderance in the development of the early stages of the game and the rules as is should stay to prevent this sort of playstyle.

This.

Everything is in slow motion. Swing speed is too slow. Movement speed changes are meh, but i get may be necessary.

If combat could be sped back up a bit more and every weapon doesn't feel like a massive slegehammer...it would be fairly solid.

The game was slowed down partly to address issues regarding latency. As of now, the combat changes and ping normalization stand to greatly even the playing field for players all over the world, rather than give players in certain parts of the world a large latency advantage.

The slower swing speeds also changed parrying such that parries could be thrown reflexively as one sees a swing being released rather than parrying in preparation for a swing that may be just a feint. This is again an overall good addition to the combat system.

 

[MolagAmur]

Nonconsensual fights and griefing stalls the testing of too many critical features. For the purposes of an alpha, this causes more harm than good. Nonconsensual fights could be something better tested in a beta or after full release; it is an overall hinderance in the development of the early stages of the game and the rules as is should stay to prevent this sort of playstyle.


The game was slowed down partly to address issues regarding latency. As of now, the combat changes and ping normalization stand to greatly even the playing field for players all over the world, rather than give players in certain parts of the world a large latency advantage.

The slower swing speeds also changed parrying such that parries could be thrown reflexively as one sees a swing being released rather than parrying in preparation for a swing that may be just a feint. This is again an overall good addition to the combat system.

But.....at what cost?

Nobody is going to give a damn if its "fair" if the combat isn't that fun to begin with. I mean its like watching a YouTube video at half speed.

 

[Svaar]

In my opinion (and in the opinion of those people who are with me on the game test), the dynamics of the battle is very slow, it is also not clear why not make a dynamic block system (as in the same mordhau or last oasis or chivalry) it will give dynamics in mass battles (after all, for the sake of massive battles, we want to invite people to play this game. Duels at the moment are similar to: hitting the enemy, blocking. Blowing, blocking, hitting block. Making a false swing and hitting again with this system is difficult, since the enemy does not care sees your false movement and he manages to block again from the blow.

 

[ElPerro]

Nonconsensual fights and griefing stalls the testing of too many critical features. For the purposes of an alpha, this causes more harm than good. Nonconsensual fights could be something better tested in a beta or after full release; it is an overall hinderance in the development of the early stages of the game and the rules as is should stay to prevent this sort of playstyle.

But how do you test combat if nobody wants to fight and just stands there? I'd say the only things you shouldnt do is grief ppl visible crafting and not priest camp them. Anything else should be fair game

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Nonconsensual fights and griefing stalls the testing of too many critical features. For the purposes of an alpha, this causes more harm than good. Nonconsensual fights could be something better tested in a beta or after full release; it is an overall hinderance in the development of the early stages of the game and the rules as is should stay to prevent this sort of playstyle.


The game was slowed down partly to address issues regarding latency. As of now, the combat changes and ping normalization stand to greatly even the playing field for players all over the world, rather than give players in certain parts of the world a large latency advantage.

The slower swing speeds also changed parrying such that parries could be thrown reflexively as one sees a swing being released rather than parrying in preparation for a swing that may be just a feint. This is again an overall good addition to the combat system.

Ok. Hear me out, right? Did I say that people couldn't have consensual fights?

...?

No? Ok then. Believe it or not, a lot of us aren't playing because of this specific grey-area rule; we aren't playing because the combat isn't enjoyable.

Also, believe it or not; this is a combat alpha. How are you supposed to rigorously test a combat system that is meant to be built for the unexpected, built for griefing, built for trolling, built for dealing the most harm and or damage to players. MO1 used to not coddle people, it was only until TC rapidly blew up did it really stop being so dangerous everywhere.

People trolling and griefing could EASILY be policed by the community, but now it's being done by people who stream or who are seen as 'valuable players' and it's okay if they grief and troll but if a player who isn't so liked or maybe even is critical of the game; they can easily catch a ban for breaking this rule even once. This rule has double standards and is extremely hard to enforce. (Which the funny thing is, I even tested this by taking videos of people doing it to me and reported them; nothing. But someone makes one peep about me and I'm banned within 20 minutes.)

I'm not advocating for players to just ruin testing, or that people who blatantly just grief someone over and over and over and OVER should be allowed to continue. But there has to be SOME leniency, but knowing Star Vault they set up rules then only hold people they don't like accountable.. or just not at all.

If you think the parrying is much better now because someone has thirty seconds (sarcasm) to prepare to do so, then you're crazy. These parries aren't reflexive parries, it might as well feel like I'm playing through a games tutorial combat.