Poll: Do You Like The New Combat

Now that the combat has been out for some time do you like it more or less than before

  • Yes and i'm NA

  • Yes and i'm EU

  • No, i'm NA

  • No, i'm EU

  • Yes, i'm Oceanic

  • No, i'm Oceanic

  • Yes, and I don't want to say where i'm from

  • No, and I don't want to say where i'm from

  • Neutral, Please Explain


Results are only viewable after voting.

Solairerection

Active member
May 28, 2020
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Once again, may i direct you to the poll outcome. It seems most people are OK with combat speed.

Yes I'm sure the 107 people, with a very biased opinion, is indicative of what's OK or not. Instead look at the literal millions upon millions of players who won't go near the game because the game allows players' to swing through eachothers blocks.

I don't see why the same few people seem to insist on fixing a problem that does not exist.
It's a very real problem with a very clear solution: turn-based combat. You stating otherwise won't change this.
 

Ori

Member
Dec 1, 2020
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Yes I'm sure the 107 people, with a very biased opinion, is indicative of what's OK or not. Instead look at the literal millions upon millions of players who won't go near the game because the game allows players' to swing through eachothers blocks.


It's a very real problem with a very clear solution: turn-based combat. You stating otherwise won't change this.

The poll was conducted at the time of the free stress test, I am sure this is a good sample of unbiased players who gave feedback on their time in game.

The poll results are quite clear, most people are quite OK with the combat speed.
 

Solairerection

Active member
May 28, 2020
123
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The poll was conducted at the time of the free stress test, I am sure this is a good sample of unbiased players who gave feedback on their time in game.
Maybe they were busy uninstalling the game after having a swing right through their block from a system that is literally perfect instead of voting on the forum?

The poll results are quite clear, most people are quite OK with the combat speed.
Why not listen to quiet majority instead? Millions of players who simply will not accept having their blocks swung right through.
 
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Ori

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Dec 1, 2020
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Why not listen to quiet majority instead? Millions of players who simply will not accept having their blocks swung right through.

I am sorry I have not encountered this fringe issue and have no source of proof of your millions of players.

I should probably take this time to direct you to the poll where it is clear that most people are OK with the combat.
 

ThaBadMan

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May 28, 2020
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Honestly, if you're trying sell an immersion-based MMORPG you're targeting people in their 30s and up primarily. MMO audiences tend to be a bit older. RPG audiences tend to be a bit older. Then you're trying to market it globally on a single server so no matter where you put the server people are going to be experiencing pings of 150+ in relatively high numbers. This game would be a fundamental failure if it's aimed primarily at professional counterstrike players because that shoots the middle finger at soooo many members of its target audience.

The real-time combat seems to be there for the immersion factor. Being in a first-person perspective swinging a sword manually puts you into your character's shoes. That is the level of twitch I'd consider essential to the game.

You don't need a high degree of twitch for combat to feel very immersive though and this isn't the appropriate format to push the bounds of what a 16-year-old with a ping of 2 can do. Thankfully with the promised special abilities, they could really push the depth and challenge of tactical gameplay a lot further than they did in MO1. And I'd love to see them really pursue that. "Low twitch" doesn't have to mean "unskilled". And this game is only low-twitch compared to arena shooters etc. It's extremely high twitch even in the current system by MMORPG standards.
This is false. Myself I started before I was 10. But the reason no MMO can hold me playing is due to all of them has trash combat.
MMO players are simply a type of player, no matter the age.
The reason FPV MMOs exist is because someone wanted to mold a FPS with a MMO, which is the single greatest thought since gaming was born.
This game sold as many copies as it did based on its promises and vision. The vision said fast paced real time combat where skill matters. Not slow snail pace where gear, pets and numbers matter. That is a big reason why 20k pre orders became below 100 players in the end.
It kind of seems like you're trolling but I'll respond like this was a serious post. The turn-based combat would ruin my immersion entirely and the uniquely immersive atmosphere of Mortal Online is a huge selling point of this game to me.
Since our immersion got ruined by snail combat that makes even grendparents fall asleep, why not simply complete the ruin by making it turn based since thats essentially you all want.
You want to slow down combat to fix problems that will be here with slow, fast, quake or snail pace combat. The problem wanted gone will only be gone with a turn based system where you are limited in doing damage to 1 person more than 1 time until he has defended himself.
You want all players to be on the same page with no advantages/disadvantages, that can only be done by making MO2 turn based.
Making this game turn based would require a total overhaul of the entire core premise of the game and would have like 2% support among its current audience. The only basis for reasonable discussion to be had is you support the general premise of the game.

People who believe in a slower more tactical real-time system have a place here.

People who believe in a fast action-based system have a place here.

People who believe the game should be tab-targeted, turn-based, or anything else that radically alters this game to stand for something entirely different than what it has been marketed as thus far need to find a game closer to their personal preferences. If you care about "fairness" how would it be fair to market a game as a first-person, real-time, non-targeted MMO, sell a bunch of copies at 39$ each to people who want that, then change it to a turn-based system?
No, you simply make it impossible to hit a player more than once until he hits you back. Almost like everyone is fledglings after a hit until they hit. Pretty easy, could be done by next patch. SEB GOGOGOGOGO!!!!
 

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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The poll was conducted at the time of the free stress test, I am sure this is a good sample of unbiased players who gave feedback on their time in game.

The poll results are quite clear, most people are quite OK with the combat speed.
The poll is only for forum goers. If you go by ingame opinions, im pretty sure speed was complained about non stop during stress test weekend, but hey who cares of players actually playing the game instead of voting on a poll on a forum most of stress testers have never been, seen or care to go to vote a poll they dont know exist...

Listening to the broad audience instead of the experts served MO so good right ?

I am sorry I have not encountered this fringe issue and have no source of proof of your millions of players.

I should probably take this time to direct you to the poll where it is clear that most people are OK with the combat.
Most people also like things easy, apparant if you look at combat speed in a tiny game currently during alpha testing phase called Mortal Online 2 dont know if you heard of it ?
You see they complained it was hard when it used to be faster...
 
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Ori

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Dec 1, 2020
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The poll is only for forum goers. If you go by ingame opinions, im pretty sure speed was complained about non stop during stress test weekend, but hey who cares of players actually playing the game instead of voting on a poll on a forum most of stress testers have never been, seen or care to go to vote a poll they dont know exist...

Listening to the broad audience instead of the experts served MO so good right ?

Hey don't shoot the messenger! But as to your post above, you should have gone with Darkfall if you wanted good combat. MO was for the sandbox. Think you might have missed out there if you liked fast paced high skill combat.
 

Kaemik

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Nov 28, 2020
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This is false. Myself I started before I was 10.

That's an anecdote, not evidence. Statistically, the average age of an MMO player skews higher than the average gamer in general. Thems just facts bud. The age at which you started playing is irrelevant.

And I won't claim to know a great deal about MO1 but I played enough of the original game to have a firm grasp on why people would quit it as one of the many who did. In fact, I tried it, and quit it, and gave it another shot, and quit it multiple times. I think "the combat was too slow" was pretty far down the list of why people quit MO1. Things like major bugs and horrible balance issues that started as soon into the game as character creation and the fact it took years to get anything fixed may have a LITTLE bit more to do with I think.

So not only was the game driving people away. When people like me came back to give it a second chance and were like "It's been three to five years and the race I want to play is still non-viable and I still have skills randomly dropping from my ability bars when I relog?!" they just kept getting driven away all over again. It's hard to make a recovery as an MMO that blows it early on but it's even harder when it takes forever to deal with the issues that drove people away originally.
 
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Buffallo

Member
Aug 3, 2020
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@Rorry

I don't disagree about the animations but there are some missing peices. Not sure why people seeing this much defenses are not throwing yellow flags when we can all see prediction is an issue. Blocks that never existed before add to the prediction issue. Not sure what is the problem with a change that helps across the board when it being supplied to those who have the best reaction ping are the ones being removed. It will bring combat into the middle as it had already been in mo1. Now with sync being ammended not sure why it wouldn't be the best fix. Decking the stack in a way that promotes zerg strength to the people who have the strongest advantage at the server point seems contradictory to the logic we want to make sure the game is beginner friendly.
 
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Buffallo

Member
Aug 3, 2020
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Hey don't shoot the messenger! But as to your post above, you should have gone with Darkfall if you wanted good combat. MO was for the sandbox. Think you might have missed out there if you liked fast paced high skill combat.
Mo1 had well paced highly strategic combat and it's about time it made a come back
 

Buffallo

Member
Aug 3, 2020
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The Global Market got too much invested to have ping ruin sales.
We should make it turn based, you simply make it so that a player can only hit another 1 time until he has hit back. This way every player no matter the handicap or slow reaction times can compete in a safe nurturing environment.

Or just slow the fight down naturally and make players lean on stam management (by making them position more intelligently not just spam block wherever whenever)
 

Ask

Member
Jun 10, 2020
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The changes they have made so far I like but I feel that it lacks options on how to approach winning a fight, for example:

Two highly skilled players duelling basically eventually rely on the other making a mistake, then this process is repeated until one dies. The fluidity of combat is very linear with very little options available once fighting. I'm not able to suggest something that would be universally agreed upon to improve this but I think the parry system needs to be changed to reward the defender and the window to block an attack to get a parry should be reduced.
 

Rorry

Well-known member
May 30, 2020
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@Rorry

I don't disagree about the animations but there are some missing peices. Not sure why people seeing this much defenses are not throwing yellow flags when we can all see prediction is an issue. Blocks that never existed before add to the prediction issue. Not sure what is the problem with a change that helps across the board when it being supplied to those who have the best reaction ping are the ones being removed. It will bring combat into the middle as it had already been in mo1. Now with sync being ammended not sure why it wouldn't be the best fix. Decking the stack in a way that promotes zerg strength to the people who have the strongest advantage at the server point seems contradictory to the logic we want to make sure the game is beginner friendly.
An adjustment like you are suggesting, if I understand correctly, would not change who has the advantage (which I think is the problem you are trying to solve.) It would give those near the server even more advantage as they already have more time to block. i.e. all people would lose the same amount of time to block, but since some start with more time they would end with more time and those far from the server who have less time would still have less time.
This is why I favor changes that allow player skill to increase, so instead of an artificial delay or other mechanical intervention, I would like them to try increasing swing and movement speed little by little and see if they can raise the skill ceiling without introducing more de-sync.
Hopefully they will continue to optimize and stabilize the server as well. They still have some massive problem areas/times.
 
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Kaemik

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The parry system does reward the defender actually. If you parry an attack your next attack will be treated as a fully charged attack for the purposes of damage even if you just swing and release.

I was using this the other day. For heavier weapons by the time my swing landed they were easily able to parry except for one time I did counterstrike with tungsteel maul and took 50% of their HP in one blow. For my lighter nodachi I was able to get in a lot of counterstrikes and could totally see where that tactic could really be awesome for someone with halfway decent reflexes and a ping of less than 160.
 

Ask

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Jun 10, 2020
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The parry system does reward the defender actually. If you parry an attack your next attack will be treated as a fully charged attack for the purposes of damage even if you just swing and release.

I was using this the other day. For heavier weapons by the time my swing landed they were easily able to parry except for one time I did counterstrike with tungsteel maul and took 50% of their HP in one blow. For my lighter nodachi I was able to get in a lot of counterstrikes and could totally see where that tactic could really be awesome for someone with halfway decent reflexes and a ping of less than 160.


Considering how slow swinging a weapon is now compared to the old MO I would hardly consider a light swing speed with full damage a reward for a parry. Counter parrying was easy in the first MO where combat was faster, in this its a joke. 2 People can stand in front of one another and parry parries until their weapon breaks. Forgive me I should of stated "more of a reward".
 
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Kaemik

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The heavier a weapon the slower the swing speed, the lighter a weapon the faster the swing speed. You're also going to get less stamina drain on a lighter weapon.

If you are have problems with:
A. Swing speed being too low.
B. Stamina drain being too high.

Consider switching up what you run with. I REALLY like the nodachi (khurute great blade on khurite hilt) because it's a nice middle ground weapon. It's 2h with that nice reach but it's also about 1.5-1.6kg if you're making it with a good blade mat like tungsteel. That's very light for a 2h weapon and decent even for a 1h.

If even that is too slow give the dagger a try. With a mercy blade and rogue hilt a good tungsteel dagger is going to have around .5kg weapon weight. That is SUPER low. Even a katana (straight backsword blade) which is one of the next lightest weapon types is going to run you around 1kg. And daggers do quite respectable damage on a stab. You need to play in really close to be effective with dagger but that can be good for you as it keeps your enemy pretty blind to your lightning-fast strikes and if you train fighting at that range you'll be used to it while they likely won't.

Spear is also a good weapon you can get the weight quite low on and I believe it has more reach than other 1h weapons. Spear+shield is in a GREAT place right now for a newbie and some more experienced players even run it as a 2 hander because of it's broken animations (Right swing and thrust look very similar if you aren't running shield)

And don't be afraid to experiment. Tungsteel blade with a ironsilk grip is a pretty standard good combo across all weapon types (hilt core varies a bit more based on how desperately the weapon needs more dura vs. less weight but greywood is a good default choice). But while I'm not going to post them on the public forum there are some really odd combos of mats that can get some weapon weights WAY down on certain weapons without hitting damage all that hard.

Finally do what the OP in this thread tells you to do: https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/feedback-how-to-check-ping-with-ease-poll-update.481/

If you're running higher than 100 you may just have to accept that melee shouldn't be you're preferred role and wait on something like mage to drop. Doesn't hurt to keep training melee in the meantime but it's highly advisable you not go foot-fighter on launch day.
 
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Rorry

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If you're running higher than 100 you may just have to accept that melee shouldn't be you're preferred role and wait on something like mage to drop. Doesn't hurt to keep training melee in the meantime but it's highly advisable you not go foot-fighter on launch day.
In that case let's go back to MO1 combat. +100 was no reason not to play melee.
 
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Hiresx

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Nov 18, 2020
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Counter parrying was easy in the first MO where combat was faster, in this its a joke.
"Counter parrying was easy if you were from the EU, everyone else got counter parried."
There I fixed your statement for you.

Ping played far too much of a role in MO1 for the combat. People who had 20-100 ping on average dominated. People with 300+ ping on average would walk up to you and triple strike you for a one shot. everyone between those 2 had to rely on large amount of speed/hit and run tactics. Or play stupid OP flavor of the month build.

While this current combat definitely isn't perfect in any way the effects of ping on the fight are far more evened out. One thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that we have several races and every character has exact same stats no matter what and combat skills. This is not going to be the case for once character and skill leveling happens. Not to mention weights and heights.

There is still changes to come and until we have full purview of creating our characters and leveling up the stats and skills no one can say without a doubt that this is better or worse. Right now all you can say is that with perfectly equal stats/gear/weapon(which is not usually the case) that combat is slower then MO1 and the ping variable is much smoother. I play in NA and the ability to parry when I actually see the weapon animation start for once is nice. In MO1 I had to pray and get lucky cause by the time I saw swing animation they were already connecting a hit most times.

TLDR: ping doesn't affect as much as it used too. I can properly melee fight now days if I want and get parries off. Couldn't do that in MO1 because ping played too much factor.
 

Ori

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Dec 1, 2020
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no one can say without a doubt that this is better or worse.

I can say without a doubt it is better and if it ever reverts back to the prediction abuse mess of MO1 I will drop the game instantly, again.

People seem to still want to run around people's guard and hit them when ever they want just by running and swinging, That's a very sad thought to me. Sword spam leg humping is already pretty horrible to deal with, speeding up could just make it a shit fest never mind the effect it might start to have on prediction.

The combat could do with some adjustment, it could do with some more moves to spice it up like perhaps a headbutt, a kick or a power move that locks you into a longer animation, some stamina balance etc.

But the core? the core is really great and really fun to play and may attract many players to the game.