Yeah according to Elon Musk, who is the head of the MOSABD (Mortal Online Speed And Balance Department), he said that if we inject 30 movement speed we'd be able to transcend Nave entirely and re-locate to a different planet entirely.
Please keep movement speed the same
- Thread starter Grudge Bringer
- Start date
Yeah according to Elon Musk, who is the head of the MOSABD (Mortal Online Speed And Balance Department), he said that if we inject 30 movement speed we'd be able to transcend Nave entirely and re-locate to a different planet entirely.
- Henrik has stated that this is a synchronization problem, even though I have my doubts, and they already have been in-house testing speed increases with this patch being one of the first incremental steps to speeding it up. Gameplay > Realism. Magic is realistic, therefore it isn't believable. Also - what do you plan on telling players who want to come from MO1 and play a dex build? I have a feeling dex builds will probably run faster then the current speed, if not I find they will be sorely disappointed.
- Ping will always be a issue on one single server. No amount of artificial work will fix this, especially not packet loss, WiFi, or other bad internet causations that players had without a fix or 'by accident (on purpose)'.
- I'm not so sure about people developing cheats, but it's highly possible since SV has made efforts - whether you or anyone else agree - to intentionally rub people wrong with design choices or go back on their word (As this has already been seen demonstrated, but I'm not getting into this debate because it teeters rule-breaking conversations. DM me if you care to know.)
- You're right, speed doesn't equal skill. Speed is a somewhat sizable portion of the problem however, when ever I advocate for speed increases; I think it's the first step to helping the combat increase it's gap in players who are mechanically good and players who are not mechanically good. I don't really see MO2 being a game about strategy, and MO1 didn't really have strategy. Sure, you could group more effectively, have good communications - that's strategy, but a lot of the times when I see people say 'strategy' they usually mean like actual tactics, formations, etc. Which is just not something that will work in a game like this. Unless you mean something else. A lot of weapons need to be faster, I'm sorry you don't agree with that but slower weapons just have almost no use currently. No chip damage, sub-par hitboxes, damage stats are borderline average or much worse. If the game had of gone into persistence it would of been spears, swords, and MAYBE daggers 24/7. Because these weapons have the least amount of drawbacks, damage output, material usage, animations, etc.
- The speed was higher before and it felt fine. The problem when I tried the combat alpha out was the turn caps were terrible, and the defensive play was too prevalent in all players to the point I had people like PatWins getting upset because I'd just sit and parry him while he did the same thing. Ironic honestly, but I don't blame him for being upset.
All in all, a lot of us want the game to be faster because we know it'll benefit the game long term rather than ushering in players when release does happen and we run in this giant fucking circle we did back to MO1. Cause guess what? MO1 was fast, then it got slower... and slower, and slower...... and slower. People complained about it being slow all the time, the combat was relatively slow, the starting experience was slow - everything movement related was slow.
When trinkets came out, you know what people used them for mostly? Prioritizing dex to increase speed, because speed was king in MO1. Henrik knows this, and he knows now from people who have played MO1 previously aren't trying to necessarily 'taint' MO2 with MO1 ideals, but a lot of us have experienced a numerous amount of gameplay changes that give us a super well-rounded idea of how shit works.
I'm not going to speak to lag, technical issues, etc. Since Henrik is absolutely stubborn on the topic of regional servers. He feels his system of a single server works equally fair for AU players, to EU players, to US players saying there is no noticeable difference. Even though I have seen a difference, experienced a differenced, and heard a difference from numerous people.
Speed is not the problem, it's the tech. If you want to argue speed is a problem because of desync issues / lag, I believe you need to first pinpoint the actual problem rather than pushing down ideas that clearly would improve gameplay.
I get that speed amplifies this problem, but in my mind gameplay > single server. Also ping normalization.
Perhaps you misunderstand me; by "current max speed is fine", I mean including the current formula for dex. At 104 dex, this speed is fine, a higher dex would of course be a bit faster, I have no issue with that; I'm saying we don't need to change current formula.
This is, of course, correct. However, I think the best solution to that would be to cause the consequences of that packet loss/lag to fall only on the player experiencing it, as some other games do, not everyone having to deal with that character. It's stops intentional de-syncing in it's tracks, since it "punishes" not rewards it. There is no perfect solution, we agree on that, but everyone else shouldn't suffer from it, whether it be intentional or just unfortunate.
We already have people running around taking on literally everyone in sight single-handedly. I'd say the gap already exists. And trying to turn a single server solution into a twitch game will be a repeat of MO1 desync hell. And I meant tactics, not strategy; they are completely different things.
no, that's tactics. Strategy is the general in the war room looking over the entire theater of war, and in this game that's called politics.
I do. I mean everything from feints to baits, ambushes, and traps, etc. And they totally happen here.
Agree and disagree on this one:
1.) If slower weapons have almost no use, then why is a big-ass 2-handed weapon the single (by far) most used weapon in the game currently?
2.) I agree that heavier weapons should have chip damage as a balance to their lower speed. A dagger parrying a 2-handed anything for zero damage needs to change. I'm not sure hitboxes are as big a problem as you say though; a lot of the time lag looks just like bad hitboxes.
I don't care what anyone says, you and Patwins make a really cute couple. =P
Making the game where a few twitch players can steamroll over entire groups is not going to benefit this game in the long term anymore than it did MO1. And "everybody" didn't complain about it being slow, and iirc the slowdowns were an attempt to fix de-sync and all the bads that came with it, both intentional and not.
Speed was definitely king. And the king is dead. You really need to stop talking like everyone that disagrees with you is some noob that never played MO1 or something, and you have some greater understanding of "how shit works". It's a bit condescending, frankly.
I agree. As I said in another post, I can literally tell the time by how the combat is, b/c it changes so much when the Euro's log on (I'm NA West Coast). Henrik is wrong, but it's his passion project and he'll do whatever he wants with it. Which means latency can only made so low, which means speed can only be allowed so high, before shit goes wrong.
The limitations on tech incur limitations on speed, before desyncing gets rampant. And that would clearly *not* improve gameplay.
Chuckle, how do I say this politely? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. You seem to be relating two unrelated things:
1.) Yes, speed amplifies the problem. Talking about lag/desync tech issues.
2.) "gameplay > single server" You sound like you are reiterating the multiple server idea.
Not sure what you're trying to say, tbh.
No offense, but I don't think you understand what ping normalization is. It's not some magic bullet I assure you, it's a controlled error allowance compensation that can only go so far.
Some fair points, some I disagree with. This was, in my opinion, a much better thought out response than to mostly what I get usually.
1. Yeah, I could see the logic in this; we've still yet to experience any kind of different attributes so until this happens there isn't much we can do or say on it with 100% certainty.
2. I'd be totally for the game just disallowing people with bad connections, both packet loss and high ping (too high) to play.
3. Duels, in my eyes on MO2, mean little to nothing to me just like MO1 does. Duels should feel okay, but group fighting is where the combat should shine 90% of the time. This is also high lighted further between players that vary in the regions they live.
4. Call it what you like. I've seen people post on here saying that want the game to be slow so they can use formations for example. When in-fact it's honestly just two waves of people clashing into each other until one gets washed over. Sure, you can pull back to regroup, dive to push deep into there group, line fight which simply means holding the line and not retreating or pushing - but 'tactics' in this game are super limited. I just see people wanting it slower so combat becomes more strategical when it really wont.
5. I can agree with this.
6. A. Because swords are a well rounded weapon no matter the handle / blade you use along with materials. There damage is usually good across the board regardless of weight, materials, and design. Their animations are good, players can justify the use of all four attack directions using them, the range is appropriate, and they are typically faster then most weapons even if sometimes heavier than a lighter weapon of different style.
B. Yes, weapons that are one handed should have a threshold of damage blocked that can be exceeded by heavier, longer weapons. But they also have access to shields, and I'd assume in the future dual wielding which either should negate this (In my opinion). So long as their skills reflect.
Hard pass. I don't like people who whine about losing to a system they use to the same degree against others only to call you a 'boring fighter' when they themselves are such. No offense, just honesty.
7. This is super debatable. As it lacks context. A few twitch players against... who, where, what, why, gear, roles, etc. I'm going to have to disagree and say a few twitch (mechanically good) players should be able to take on groups, should the context support it. Someone asked this before and said "What if 3 people were fighting 12 people in an open field? Should the 3 win?" Probably not. In this scenario - they are stacked 1:4, the most they could do is kite somewhere for help, or an advantageous location that benefits their roles. Is it 3 heavy foot fighters? Yeah, they're probably not getting away unless all 12 players are also heavy foot fighters, are significantly worse, and play it bad / make mistakes. Now lets translate the situation of 3 hybrids playing against a group of 12, mixture of fighters and mages. We'll say 3 mages, and 9 foot fighters. But this time the location is in GK, or a dense, building-heavy town. Yes, the 3 players could certainly outplay the 12 - given they have the knowledge, skill, and tools at their disposal (Gear, reagents, etc.) Smart players will move and play to their advantages if numbers are not in their favor. Equally skilled, outfitted, and in their preferred environments? Sure, the 12 wins. But the 3 should always have the ability to outplay - that is why I like skill based systems, that promote quick thinking and decision making.
8. Played the game for 8 years, so it can be agitating having it over looked since people don't know my background - and I don't know there's.. For some I do, and it's why I take what they say with a grain of salt. Also, 9 / 10, text does a poor job of conveying intended emotion. I try to put out information and opinions from my own experiences, my guilds experiences, and my friends experiences in hope that with you all we can help guide SV better into forming a game that is fun from a gameplay perspective, but doesn't absolutely gut things such as skill based systems. No, I'm not saying speed is a skill based system - but it plays a part in it all. So apologies if it comes off that way.
9. Yeah there isn't much reason to debate this. EU players just have a better gameplay experience hands down, and that fucking sucks.
10. Gameplay is taking a hit because of the single server, that is just an objective fact. Henrik has made it clear he has no intentions of using regional servers as he believes him and SV have 'solved' the issue, even though plenty of us would disagree - though he made a note to say there are still issues they are working on, and sure; I'll see it to believe it. But I have very high doubts. So of course, your argument can hold truer than mine simply because the game is being forced to be played on a single server. I still think even still there needs to be solutions to the slowness of combat, it wasn't this slow before and I thought it was relatively fine - just not the turn caps.
11. I'm saying I'd rather have two servers, where people have better ping overall - or just move the server to NA since the NA playerbase is bigger and it would benefit more people, rather than put it somewhere where it skews gameplay for more people. Because I want them to focus on making good gameplay, not creating solutions for problems they've made with server locations. EU makes off handed remarks how they wouldn't mind, and it wouldn't make much of a difference; but I'd like to see them put those 'shoes' on for a couple of months and see how long they keep them on till they want a new pair.
12. I don't think SV knows what ping normalization is.
I don't like the idea of two servers for obvious reasons...but not having the server be in NA is a real smoothbrain move IMO. If they wanted to maximize the potential of this game its a no-brainer to have the server in NA...but I seriously doubt its gonna change.
As for everyone talking about the movement speed...the shit wasn't even that fast in MO1. I would even settle with it being in between what we have now and MO1 speeds. Currently its a snailfest.
Fun > Realism.
And if any of the mechanics you were lobbying for sounded fun enough to break my immersion for, I'd want them too. The only problem is they all sound incredibly unfun.
Also, in the context of a fantasy game, the presence of magic doesn't harm the ability of players to immerse themselves in the game world. Familiar things that DO exist in the real world such as melee combat working in incredibly unrealistic manners such as people running figure 8s in combat because standing and fighting is a bad technique... really does really exceed my personal suspension of disbelief.
One of the greatest things about Mortal is it's attention to detail in making a believable fantasy world. It's one of the most immersive games I have ever played period. I really don't want to see that ruined to appease the whims of a vocal minority on what THEY perceive fun combat to be.
And if any of the mechanics you were lobbying for sounded fun enough to break my immersion for, I'd want them too. The only problem is they all sound incredibly unfun.
Also, in the context of a fantasy game, the presence of magic doesn't harm the ability of players to immerse themselves in the game world. Familiar things that DO exist in the real world such as melee combat working in incredibly unrealistic manners such as people running figure 8s in combat because standing and fighting is a bad technique... really does really exceed my personal suspension of disbelief.
One of the greatest things about Mortal is it's attention to detail in making a believable fantasy world. It's one of the most immersive games I have ever played period. I really don't want to see that ruined to appease the whims of a vocal minority on what THEY perceive fun combat to be.
I played a fair amount of MO 1 and maybe its because I am new to the feel of MO 2 but I have to admit I did prefer the feel of MO 1's small scale combat and the crispness of my swings and fakes flowing nicley for dueling. All things take time to adjust too however, and sometimes we hate change but it is slowly (haha pun) growing on me.
If I look past the feeling of duels or small skirmishes of old and their feel, and think large scale fights, I have to admit that the slower movment pace of combat might actually lend to better group fight potential.
In mo 1 anything above 12-15 per side started to get very lancey, swarming, and frantic, it was like ants running around. This slower place will have more of a holding the line and pushing flanks kinda thing, or this is how I imagine it will flow based on other meele games. I did love the small combat in MO 1 in its hay day, but to be honest bigger fights MO 1 was a comeplete and outta cluster fuckstickle and not actually that enjoyable, the good thing about them was when you won and that was for other reasons like what was at stake or braging rights haha.
I think for bigger fights it works, and skirmishes will just have a different feel in general. Defo a fan of MO 1 duels more but eh, think big not small.
(edit) Something that did occer to me is that without higher movment speed sticky backing will be very easy as you will not be able to use your movment to evade hits, you will have to time you break and run perfectly or you're a gonner, I could see this chaning the meta to a very slow and careful back and forth but something can be said for the dodging skills and sticky back skills that will be lost, not to mention those all too critical mage heal saves where you had to time your dodging and straight run just right to line up with your mage trying to shoot a heal off to you without fizzling.
If I look past the feeling of duels or small skirmishes of old and their feel, and think large scale fights, I have to admit that the slower movment pace of combat might actually lend to better group fight potential.
In mo 1 anything above 12-15 per side started to get very lancey, swarming, and frantic, it was like ants running around. This slower place will have more of a holding the line and pushing flanks kinda thing, or this is how I imagine it will flow based on other meele games. I did love the small combat in MO 1 in its hay day, but to be honest bigger fights MO 1 was a comeplete and outta cluster fuckstickle and not actually that enjoyable, the good thing about them was when you won and that was for other reasons like what was at stake or braging rights haha.
I think for bigger fights it works, and skirmishes will just have a different feel in general. Defo a fan of MO 1 duels more but eh, think big not small.
(edit) Something that did occer to me is that without higher movment speed sticky backing will be very easy as you will not be able to use your movment to evade hits, you will have to time you break and run perfectly or you're a gonner, I could see this chaning the meta to a very slow and careful back and forth but something can be said for the dodging skills and sticky back skills that will be lost, not to mention those all too critical mage heal saves where you had to time your dodging and straight run just right to line up with your mage trying to shoot a heal off to you without fizzling.
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Very true, many MO players quit MO due to speed being lowered too much. I cant comprehend how players can say that MO current speed is fast and be serious.
These are the kind of things I'm referring to when I say the "real world" on persistent. Its not gonna be this back and forth dueling and what not. There are a ton of things people aren't even thinking about when they try to argue balance for one thing or another. The whole point of the alpha/beta in my mind is to prepare it for when the game goes live. I'm far more concerned about how things are going to play out when it gets down to the nitty-gritty of MO. Some people like this slow movement speed because they aren't having to actively travel anywhere to gather, fight, etc. They are sitting in a town dueling with zero penalties.
Magic also isn't even in the game. It will be interesting to see how mage play is going to feel. Again, I feel like most players are just going to go mounted this time around. Which is just lame and boring...but oh well. Its what the people want apparently.
Awakening patch notes
Dear Community, Awakening patch notes. I need to again thank the Focus Group for their un-ceasing efforts right up to launch and beyond. They have done an amazing job. Without their help we would still be some way from launch – so I hope the whole community will join me in thanking them for...
Citation still needed, this doesn't say anything about people leaving the game because "uhhm sluuhwer"Awakening patch notes
Dear Community, Awakening patch notes. I need to again thank the Focus Group for their un-ceasing efforts right up to launch and beyond. They have done an amazing job. Without their help we would still be some way from launch – so I hope the whole community will join me in thanking them for...www.starvault.se
Also 5 percent. Cmon.
Did you provide a source earlier that 10-15 movement speed will turn it into ice skating online?
So perhaps we can avoid further debate. I'm not going to sit there and debate what number will and won't cause what. Simply state that if increasing movement speed makes combat more about how you move and less about being able to parry and counter blows makes the game less immersive, and less skilled.
I'm especially not going to debate speed when for instance you lose speed going stout, and race bonuses/stat caps haven't made it in yet, so we don't know what the speed of the average meta build will be yet.
But can you agree to the premise of my original paragraph. If you agree with the idea "If something like figure 8ing replaces parry's importance in the meta then speed should be toned back down" then we have no real reason to debate. Those numbers adjustments will be made by SV and not us. And hopefully, they have a far better idea how much those numbers need to be adjusted then we do.
Again it is unclear if 425 will be the highest, medium or lowest speed possible. If it's the highest a Huegar will feel very slow.
No,
Figure 8ing isn't a mortal term and we don't know what you're referring to, nor have we heard a singular mortal player complain about it. We are not sensitive to the desires of Ministro, Grudge, bbihah, and yourself who we do not recognize as mortal players.
We simply do not accept that you know what makes Mortal interesting for us to play. Its great that Mortal 2 is taking steps to become more accessible but under no circumstances will I be playing Bbihah online without a fight. You shouldn't perceive those recent steps by star vault to make the game more accessible as confirmation that everything you want for the game is right, the pendulum will swing as it is already starting to.
I'll always support freedom of movement.
What I can see issues with is hits from range and i'd like to see how that plays out.