Please keep movement speed the same

[Handsome Young Man]

It's another reason anytime these gold fish brained players get upset when I mock them trying to challenge me to a duel in MO2 is because its such a brain dead combat system where you're rewarded for dragging the fighting on as long as possible.

And MO2 honestly favors better ping players even more than in MO1. I PvP'd a lot in MO1 and fighting lower ping players who were "better" than me usually could be a walk in the park for me. Whereas here I can immediately tell if someone is either very high ping, same ping, or extremely low ping.

I've seen a literal stream of my friend play with 70 ping while I play with 150 and his gameplay LOOKED SO SMOOTH LIKE BUTTER while on my screen he just warped around non stop.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I'll host some 3v3s or 5v5s once footfighter isn't the only role in-game. Group play is hard to judge atm with no interaction between roles.

I still think it would be better then 1v1's

 

[Darthus]

Dont know about you but im not here for the realism or roleplay. Im here to have fun its a video game!

You definitely dont know about others, because I (and I think many others SV is trying to recruit) are here for all 3 (realism, roleplay and fun), and I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

I just think these threads that are like "speed things up" or "slow things down" are so not helpful for the devs. It's like when people buy a new iPhone and are like, "I don't understand why this phone has only 6 hours battery life, they should just put a bigger battery in there, idiots". There are tradeoffs everywhere on all sides when making decisions about a final product.

It's useful to tell the devs what you like and don't like, and try to be as specific as possible and then they can make the decisions about the tradeoffs. I'm not even clear from this mosh pit of a thread what specifically people want when they say "speed things up" (and now there are two on the same topic, which is great). Or even "get rid of the single server design" (which is a core concept of the game) so you can have faster more ping dependent combat.

People were relatively unanimous that the swing speed felt slow and non-responsive. They implemented dynamic swing speed so you can release at any time (as well as a small speed bump before that). That is a specific "speed up" that helped the combat because people gave a specific thing they didn't like (the swings feel slow and lethargic) and they implemented a solution that actually nobody really specifically asked for (everyone was just saying, make the swing speed/combat faster).

I'm of the opinion that that change was a positive one for "skillful" play, if even a little bit, and it didn't involve just turning up the speed on everything.

Making lighting fast decisions is one kind of skill, but it's not the only one, and it's more of a "twitch" skill. Yes, speed chess exists, but anyone who says chess is less skillful when it's slower and deliberate I think is on something. I would much prefer a series of more interesting decisions and tradeoffs at every moment in combat than just simply cranking up the speed across the board. I think, by trying to make it less ping dependent, we are heading more toward a turn based game with a max timer on decision making (which I personally like the idea of). Just because the person can see your attack and move to parry doesn't and respond doesnt mean that things need to be "sped up", as long as there are interesting decisions like break the parry, feint attacks, etc etc.

Main point being, I think the feedback should be focused more on the specific problems we agree need fixing rather than random suggesions about how to fix it without any specific knowledge of the considerations or tradeoffs being made.

 

[MolagAmur]

I'm all for newer players giving their feedback and what not...but there is a reason why so many vets are very adamant about wanting movement speed to be faster. We know exactly how its going to feel in the "real world". Its important to remember that the alpha isn't a very good representation of how the game is going to be played at launch. This goes for more than just movement speed.

 

[bbihah]

Us vets just really really like ice-skating. That seems to be it.

 

[Teknique]

Us vets just really really like ice-skating. That seems to be it.

Do you have any proof 10 movement speed is going be iceskating or are people intentionally being dishonest?

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Us vets just really really like ice-skating. That seems to be it.

Just to clarify, your idea of 'ice skating' was bad animations not movement speed. You can see people 'ice skate' when they held W and either A or D.

That had nothing to do with movement speed, that was animations.

 

[Kaemik]

I still think it would be better then 1v1's

Depends on the claim you are trying to support. For instance, if you are claiming "But there's nothing skillful with slow-paced combat as you can literally parry everything without needing to pay attention." Then if you can't parry all blows in a 1v1 setting then it's easily disproven you can also do so in a group setting where you have to also worry about positioning, flanks, and archers.

I think ultimately, in the grand scheme of the game teamfights do have more meaning and value. But if it's disprooven skill means nothing in 1v1 I don't see how you could possibly continue entertaining the claim that adding more targets into the mix suddenly makes it lower skillcap / less skillful.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

I'm all for newer players giving their feedback and what not...but there is a reason why so many vets are very adamant about wanting movement speed to be faster. We know exactly how its going to feel in the "real world". Its important to remember that the alpha isn't a very good representation of how the game is going to be played at launch. This goes for more than just movement speed.

Pretty much.

People keep throwing out realism, and how it looks more realistic. But the fact of the matter is people keep trying to apply a realism argument to a game with magic, in made up worlds, with made up races, creatures, etc.

Realism does not equal good game play. I felt Kingdom Come: Deliverance was pretty realistic, and while I liked the game I didn't really care for the combat.

The only games I personally find that benefit from realism is FPS games.

While this is a first person game, it isn't exactly a shooter. (inb4 "BUT BOWS SHOOT")

 

[bbihah]

Just to clarify, your idea of 'ice skating' was bad animations not movement speed. You can see people 'ice skate' when they held W and either A or D.

That had nothing to do with movement speed, that was animations.

The ice skating was not just visually.
In the sync with other clients, you were ice-skating in a different dimension.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Depends on the claim you are trying to support. For instance, if you are claiming "But there's nothing skillful with slow-paced combat as you can literally parry everything without needing to pay attention." Then if you can't parry all blows in a 1v1 setting then it's easily disproven you can also do so in a group setting where you have to also worry about positioning, flanks, and archers.

I think ultimately, in the grand scheme of the game teamfights do have more meaning and value. But if it's disprooven skill means nothing in 1v1 I don't see how you could possibly continue entertaining the claim that adding more targets into the mix suddenly makes it lower skillcap / less skillful.

Because you have to rely on others, and others rely on you; your individuality no longer means much unless you work well with others.

This was proven time and time again in MO1. You could have really good duelist, like Furry who claims he's one of the best players to ever play MO. But playing with and against him in groups, guess who usually was dying and ending up naked constantly? Furry was.

Yet he still parades around on YouTube and any other platform to constantly state that he has 20k hours and was one of the best.

1v1 does has skilled involve, yes. In an objective manner - yes. A 1v1 in either game can display how one person is better than the other. But they both suffer from ping disparities, as well as potential packet loss issues. This causes desyncs, lag, etc. Throwing this stuff into the mix kind of devalues the actual 'skill' displayed as one player could be just as good if not better but lose fights because of artificial / technical disadvantages.

While it still heavily impacts group fights, you see it less impactful than a duel where you only have one target to focus.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

The ice skating was not just visually.
In the sync with other clients, you were ice-skating in a different dimension.

I mean I'm just telling you straight up that's what it is. When people have their legs running, crossing over each other in the animation; it was because when you ran forward while also holding A and or D.

I don't know what else you'd call ice skating, if you mean people warping, teleporting, laggy, etc. That was your grand one server with people of vastly different pings playing.

 

[bbihah]

And its much better now, so lets not return to Disney world on ice. It was a terrible place.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

And its much better now, so lets not return to Disney world on ice. It was a terrible place.

Had nothing to do with speed though.

 

[bbihah]

Had nothing to do with speed though.

sssuuuuuuuure. I'm sure under a prediction based netcode the players moving too fast to accurately depicture where players were had NOTHING to do with players moving too fast to accurately depicture where players were.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

sssuuuuuuuure. I'm sure under a prediction based netcode the players moving too fast to accurately depicture where players were had NOTHING to do with players moving too fast to accurately depicture where players were.

When you find a video example of 'ice skating' that doesn't follow the description I give, then yes I will agree with you. Otherwise you're talking about latency & server related issues.

Speed had no effect on the 'ice skating' animations. Players could do it on new characters.

 

[Kaemik]

One player not being able to win the battle by virtue of faster reflexes than all other players is a separate debate from "The game has a low skillcap because any competent player can parry 100% of attacks."

The claim that was made before is demonstrably false if only a tiny portion of players can parry 100% of attacks. That's easily tested in 1v1s.

As to the "I can't carry a battle as a solo player". If you're a good shotcaller with a good knowledge of tactics you can carry a battle. Mages also are probably going to be a role more capable of carrying if they get all the right spells to the right places at the right time.

I don't really see it as a problem that one melee can't carry a large fight with reflexes alone.

 

[bbihah]

When you find a video example of 'ice skating' that doesn't follow the description I give, then yes I will agree with you. Otherwise you're talking about latency & server related issues.

Speed had no effect on the 'ice skating' animations. Players could do it on new characters.

I'm saying the game both visually had ice-skating and under the hood there was a different kind of ice-skating going on.

But we are in agreement on visually at least.

One player not being able to win the battle by virtue of faster reflexes than all other players is a separate debate from "The game has a low skillcap because any competent player can parry 100% of attacks."

Once is demonstrably false if only a tiny portion of players can parry 100% of attacks. That's easily tested in 1v1s.

As to the "I can't carry a battle as a solo player". If you're a good shotcaller with a good knowledge of tactics you can carry a battle. Mages also are probably going to be a role more capable of carrying if they get all the right spells to the right places at the right time.

I don't really see it as a problem that one melee can't carry a large fight with reflexes alone.

Melee combat is more balanced than it ever was in mo1 because of it, so far im intrigued to see how the game plays out by the time we hit release.
Sadly, i'll probably miss it, but i'll join ya'll in the summer... When I hopefully get vacation and do not get sent to gulag more work.

 

[Teknique]

When you find a video example of 'ice skating' that doesn't follow the description I give, then yes I will agree with you. Otherwise you're talking about latency & server related issues.

Speed had no effect on the 'ice skating' animations. Players could do it on new characters.

Look bro +5 MO 1 movement speed introduced to this now perfect tested by nasa scientists speed and prediction values, will catastrophically offset the prediction so that there is so much friction the water will boil off the surface of Nave and all life will be extinguished.

 

[Ministro]

-People are already figure 8-ing, turning combat into jousting contests instead of melee, so *no*, speed does not need to be increased. This isn't counterstrike. We're not supposed to be able to run around in full plate armor as fast as half-naked basketball players. I wear all plate except for 2 slots, and I run as fast as a naked person, and that's just ridiculous already. It needs to be slowed down if anything, though I'm fine with it as it is. Instead of speeding it up, they need to lower the weight at which you start slowing down, so that only people who are naked, or wearing cloth/leather are fast. Right now people in full plate armor chasing down naked people successfully is just silly. Naked and cloth wearing people need to be out-running everyone, leather wearers close behind them, and people in full armor shouldn't be running anywhere near their speed. Since people like to jump on the term "realism", I'll use the term "believable" or maybe "successful suspension of belief" or "internal consistency". The current max speed is acceptable, just not the people in full or near full plate armor running at max speed.

-The ping issue is still here. I can practically tell what continent someone is not just by fighting them. It's so obvious when the Euro's log on, as opposed to fighting other NA people, in fights that are 100-150 ping plus their 100-150 ping till they show up, and it's suddenly a completely different fight. When you can tell what time it is by what the combat is like, ping is still *definitely* an issue. Read that last sentence again.

-They need to pay more attention to the intentional de-syncing breaking animations that's already starting to show up, not try to turn this into some twitch-shooter. I am already seeing blows land before the animations even complete, like in MO1, and it's always the same people, and that's not Australia lag, it's people working on cheats. You can tell the difference.

-Speed does not equal skill; it's more accurate to say speed *instead of* skill, twitch instead of tactics. Again, this isn't counterstrike, and MO2 needs to not exceed the speed of it's ability to keep desyncing, whether intentional or not, under control. It turns out that I like the combat sped up a bit, but it is a bit too much, and needs to be scaled back; fast daggers make sense; 2 handed swords shouldn't be able to be swung about like flyswatters though.

Again, the max speed of things isn't far off, and definitely doesn't need to be increased, but the heavy stuff (heavy weapons swing speed, runspeed with armor) needs be scaled back.