Patch Notes 1.0.10.15 Discussion

[Jatix]

Khurite's blow.

Other humans have mana even at a max melee stats build. Which translates to more crafting skills and stuff. Khurites dont get this. And with 1 char slot, it matters.

I think they need to completely redo how attributes give skills. Because its stupid that a khurite fighter is just a shittier skiller than a tind hybrid because you have less int. Which really adds up for lores and stuff and usually is at least 1 extra lore or skill you can take. Which also shits on psyfighters, because you lose that extra skill to have psy.

 

[Emdash]

Khurite's blow.

Other humans have mana even at a max melee stats build. Which translates to more crafting skills and stuff. Khurites dont get this. And with 1 char slot, it matters.

I think they need to completely redo how attributes give skills. Because its stupid that a khurite fighter is just a shittier skiller than a tind hybrid because you have less int. Which really adds up for lores and stuff and usually is at least 1 extra lore or skill you can take. Which also shits on psyfighters, because you lose that extra skill to have psy.

Khurites are gimped but if you play Tind or w/e you are playing an actually suboptimal attribute array. At least with Khurite you get something close. I'm talking full foot fighter. I wonder what the max armor wt a tin can wear is.

But yea, humans need more points.

 

[Jatix]

Khurites are gimped but if you play Tind or w/e you are playing an actually suboptimal attribute array. At least with Khurite you get something close. I'm talking full foot fighter. I wonder what the max armor wt a tin can wear is.

But yea, humans need more points.

well ya tind is a shit foot fighter only build but thats almost every race combo in the game. Tind is an amazing hybrid / paladin race. Khurite is suboptimal at every role.

And a tind psyfighter is prob a better fighter than a khurite. but theres still better race combos for higher psy without losing more melee combat attributes.

 

[Emdash]

well ya tind is a shit foot fighter only build but thats almost every race combo in the game. Tind is an amazing hybrid / paladin race. Khurite is suboptimal at every role.

And a tind psyfighter is prob a better fighter than a khurite. but theres still better race combos for higher psy without losing more melee combat attributes.

I dunno, it's getting there. It's like a 6 or 7 FF, IMO as just that, but w/ pts, 20% regen... it's not impossible if you go full foot to add magic on top and make it good. But we'll see. Still got work to do. People always telling me I'm wrong, but hey if I'm right 15% of the time, it's still worth it, imo, cuz I tried n did something.

Edit: I feel you underestimate the raw effect of +50 actions. Haha, they still need help, but it's a big buff combined with what they already have.

 

[Jatix]

Already voted bad, but there should be a worse option to vote for. Just attacked 2 nakeds cuz 1 was grey hiding outside the Gy like he looted something. Hit him for shit. Started getting hit for 40's. Turn's around, the other naked was fully geared hitting me in the back wit ha sword, and the guy I was hitting was a fully geared mage. Got slammed, when I'd never even be in a position to get dunked by them if I saw they were grey. Going back to not playing until this is fixed.

I'm not as mad as I sound. I'm just irritated that this game managed to waste my time again in a worthless fashion. Spent 40 mins rezing and gearing for that lmao.

 

[Emdash]

Already voted bad, but there should be a worse option to vote for. Just attacked 2 nakeds cuz 1 was grey hiding outside the Gy like he looted something. Hit him for shit. Started getting hit for 40's. Turn's around, the other naked was fully geared hitting me in the back wit ha sword, and the guy I was hitting was a fully geared mage. Got slammed, when I'd never even be in a position to get dunked by them if I saw they were grey. Going back to not playing until this is fixed.

I'm not as mad as I sound. I'm just irritated that this game managed to waste my time again in a worthless fashion. Spent 40 mins rezing and gearing for that lmao.

yea the naked thing is funny. I have a SS of my friend's full size thursar looking like beavis cuz of a glitch. Game is having issues in places. Always weird shit. It's like U GONNA PUT THAT ARMOR ON? Nah it's on! You look naked, too, bud.

 

[Grudge Bringer]

wait so SV was going to add 'quickdraw' perk for humans? This needs to happen.
also what does 'May' mean and how do I test this -

• Human characters may need to reset their clades in order to get the full effects of the new clade gifts.

 

[Kaemik]

The human clade gift change should have been quick draw. Humans need something unique.

I think the 50 skill points was needed. The Oghmir getting 202 extra skill points (Beer belly & free armor weight & axes), and humans only getting about 100 undermines the human versatile narrative.

The hybrid nature of humans really needs quick draw to stand out in a unique way. Maybe a 50% increase weapon swaps.

Furthermore, they need to fix the attribute pools for kallard and khurite. The juice is not worth the squeeze. After a deeper analysis of the human sub clades, the kallards and Khurites have much to high max psy, and it's why their attribute pools are so low. Compare with the Sidoian and you will see what I mean. It's sad because there is zero builds that allow for a psy using kallard or khurite.

Yeah my issue with the human fixes is that Sidoian was already an amazing MM, and Tindremene and Sarduucan had some cool niche applications for hybrid.

After the changes Sidoain is an even more amazing MM, and Tindremene and Sarduucan are less niche hybrids.

The most underpowered human variant is FF. These buffs do very little for FF. I am starting to think they should just buff the attribute pool of Kallards and Khurites pretty dramatically for humans only (NOT for their Thursar counterparts). The net effect would be that Kallard and Khurite would be much more meta for what I call "heavy hybrids" or "psybrids". Builds that run 10 int, 10 mental offense, and focus on casting spells like corrupt, reflect, and purify. It would also make them pretty decent as a general psy fighter. And they still wouldn't climb the mage and true hybrid meta much as they both have dogcrap int caps. You might see a bit more Kallard and Khurite mixed in to some hybrids but that wouldn't break anything.

Making the better fighter races for humans higher psy would really justify their existence.

Then all they would have to do to Khurite is dump their con and shove it into more strength and dex to actually make them a different build from Kallards. One that's good at being an MA the way their racial lore says they are.

__________

I would have rated this patch as good if they did a bit more for Khurites and Kallards. The sewers were a cool addition and making humans better was a good move. They just needed to work harder at them being a more all around decent at all builds race the way they are clearly intended to be.

 

[Kaemik]

Humans get more than 100 skill points.
I did the math a while ago when I first started a crusade to get humans buffed. Humans get just about 275+ skill points from clade gifts alone.

EXCLUDING Pilfering and Engineering, you have +10 to all lores, which is 110 skill points and HUGE for crafters. +50 Profession skills. +15 in all mounted skills (Controlled riding, Mounted Archery, Mounted Magic, Mounted Combat). +20 Ecuminical magic skill. And then +25 to combat maneuvering and +10 Anatomy.

This does not include attribute bonuses from the additional attribute points.

NOW with that said I do still feel that Khurite are severely lacking when it comes to attribute points. They should be on par with Kallard or Sidioan as far as total points.

I don't count profession points. The buffs from Alvarin and Ohgmir that just straight make certain professions better really leaves it so the only thing humans are the best at is cooking and bows. And bows don't really need those extra points. Use metal at all in your profession? Go ohg. Extractor? Go ohg. Miner? Go alvarin. Butcher? Go alvarin. Alchemist? Go alvarin.

Honestly I'd like to see profession clades and int bonus removed from the game and just give everyone 100 more profession points. Characters shouldn't have to balance combat capabilities against profession capabilities because pro tip: those of us with alts already don't.

Then you're going to want to want to examine actives from the perspective of "What is good for an actual meta build." For instance, rough rider CAN give 60 to a single build. But even a build heavily focused on mounted combat would use 45 at max in the current meta. 30 would be pretty average for most builds that need to run around the map and be able to fight back if they get attacked while mounted. 0 would be my personal recommendation for people who can afford to run a build dedicated to dungeons and sieges given how bad mounted builds are at combat against footies.

So I'd break it down like this:

25 points universal essentials (combat maneuvering)

10 points FF essentials / mage+hybrid nice to haves (bandaging)

20 points mage essentials. Though worth noting these 20 points make corrupt on a FF cost less than 10 primaries. A solid choice on any build with decent psy. Also essential is a bit of an overstatement but I'd personally argue even if you're focused on other schools you will want enough ecu for corrupt, lesser heal, and purify as any mage. Reflect is damn near essential but I can see not running it if you are pretty consistently running with people who do.

30-45 points for mounted builds (controlled riding + the one or two damage skills decent builds will stop at)

It's all good, but not broken. And the +50 doesn't break it either. Good but not "I'm going to roll a Khurite" good. Pretty damn solid on mages and hybrids with the buffed version of cleric though. Not "I'm going to reroll my sheevra dex hybrid" good. Just "I might make one of my accounts a human hybrid now" good.

 

[Emdash]

wait so SV was going to add 'quickdraw' perk for humans? This needs to happen.
also what does 'May' mean and how do I test this -

• Human characters may need to reset their clades in order to get the full effects of the new clade gifts.

it means reset asap if you don't want trouble. lol, nah if you don't have the action side specced then you prol won't, but if you do, I think you will have to un-fort. SV outright robbed me 50 primary pts in controlled aiming when I respecced clade and they are like nah not a bug it's like k... so be careful

 

[Xunila]

Discord channel community-announcement:

Veterinary will be converted to a secondary child underneath the Animal Care skill. Meaning you'll need to Animal Care primary to use veterinary.

Beastmastery coming into the game and animal care needed for veterinary: Everybody has to visit Jungle Camp to buy books.

 

[Grudge Bringer]

it means reset asap if you don't want trouble. lol, nah if you don't have the action side specced then you prol won't, but if you do, I think you will have to un-fort. SV outright robbed me 50 primary pts in controlled aiming when I respecced clade and they are like nah not a bug it's like k... so be careful

Im 17 clades deep on my foot fighter. Probally need to reset clades

 

[Emdash]

Discord channel community-announcement:

Beastmastery coming into the game and animal care needed for veterinary: Everybody has to visit Jungle Camp to buy books.

nice big level change sv

 

[Kaemik]

Discord channel community-announcement:

Beastmastery coming into the game and animal care needed for veterinary: Everybody has to visit Jungle Camp to buy books.

We will see. I am curious how important 100 BM will be to creature control builds. I'm imagining it will be worth the investment but this is SV and there is a possibility it will come in pre-nerfed and not be worth taking.

Animal Care is 1000% better for combat builds as unlike the base skill, veterinary has actual combat application and is not a misclassified profession. Veterinary is now holding 100% of the combat value of the animal care parent skill. Thing is, I rarely recommend veterinary for pet builds. Most pet builds have magic and magical heals work a lot better. The 2nd heal is never bad even with magic, but it's probably not worth 100 primaries for anyone who has magic.

Given you are getting the utility of a misclassified profession for free now when you take veterinary, I do expect to see it rise in the meta some, but only a bit. It's popularity with carebears will rise for sure but it's still a low tier active in terms of PvP meta.

That being said, the book rush is a given. People will hit it and forget it if these skills don't provide real power. They still are going to try it when it's the hot new fad though.

 

[Jatix]

Theres also the chance that they nerf pets and make you need BM to be as strong as the yare currently. Which I think would be ideal. Like when they added bow wobble skills, they increase bow wobble without them.

 

[Bigbadwolff]

Theres also the chance that they nerf pets and make you need BM to be as strong as the yare currently. Which I think would be ideal. Like when they added bow wobble skills, they increase bow wobble without them.

I was thinking about that myself, but i feal that there are a lot of pets that will need a dmg buff couse in this state they are not usable, maybe the skills will do that.

Anyway this change will separate the BeastMasters from the rest of pet users and that means that Dominators and Necro ritualist need to invest a other 100 points to be good

 

[Hodo]

Theres also the chance that they nerf pets and make you need BM to be as strong as the yare currently. Which I think would be ideal. Like when they added bow wobble skills, they increase bow wobble without them.

According to some sources if you dont have beast mastery it will be a 25% reduction in damage when attacking with a pet.

 

[Bigbadwolff]

According to some sources if you dont have beast mastery it will be a 25% reduction in damage when attacking with a pet.

Were I can read about this sources?

 

[Hodo]

Were I can read about this sources?

It was discussed in a twitch channel by MO2.

 

[Kaemik]

Theres also the chance that they nerf pets and make you need BM to be as strong as the yare currently. Which I think would be ideal. Like when they added bow wobble skills, they increase bow wobble without them.

The thing is if you're making pets 300 primaries required, 591 for all combat related perks, and 691 if you want to be able to tame your own pets...

You basically get into a point where pets are all a pet build can do. And if pets are all a pet build can do, then they actually do deserve to be insanely powerful even if they aren't that difficult to command.

I kind of prefer pets being more of a dip skill because I feel like pet builds should always be pets + mage or pets + fighter. A lot of the skill from a pet build should come from combining it with your other thing to maximum effect.

I don't entirely hate the idea of a build that can do nothing but pets. I think well done that would be amazing. But there is SO much SV would need to change and add to make such a build compelling I have no faith that it will ever be well done. Pets as a complement to another role is simply easier to implement and balance so I think that's the direction SV realistically should go.