one character per account .....

[Vulpin]

Its as p2w as it was in MO1, having multiple fighters ready to go by just loggin in is pay to win. Having multiple gatherers in different locations for harvesting shit is pay to win, having several PCs with multiple accounts is absolutly pay to win. Idk what you are talking about tho.

A diversity you can't access unless you pay, that is by definition pay to win.

If they can't enforce that model then you gotta think they should have thought that before they made the current system. So yeah its bad design...

Than they should just delete the game sense it's the only way to keep the game from being P2W if that your definition of P2W. Cause they have no means to enforce players having multiple accounts an even if they give us 2,3,4 character slots than by your definition having multiple accounts is still P2W because just having more character than someone else even if it's by 1 slot is now P2W, thus the game's only option to not be P2W is to just not exist.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Than they should just delete the game sense it's the only way to keep the game from being P2W if that your definition of P2W. Cause they have no means to enforce players having multiple accounts an even if they give us 2,3,4 character slots than by your definition having multiple accounts is still P2W because just having more character than someone else even if it's by 1 slot is now P2W, thus the game's only option to not be P2W is to just not exist.

Nice fallacious speech, you implying theres no way to work around the design flaws doesn't make it true. I truly don't know whats your P2W definition, for me its pretty simple. If you can pay for advantage then its pay to win.
Or maybe you refer to pay to win for a cash shop? like... come on XD

I believe theres many ways to fix that issue, it would have been important than this was thought before they released the game but they are just finding out now. So either make it more accesible for everyone, limit the accounts people can use or continue to be a p2w shit.

 

[Kinto]

Personally, I'm in favor of the one character per account idea. To me at least, the pros listed in OP's post hold far more weight than the cons. I appreciate that this is one of the few MMOs that are doing this.

 

[Jatix]

No, they designed the game so you would be dependent on the economy and other players

They did so knowing that tons of people will pay for advantage and multi sub.

Also heavily limiting what combat roles a person can play doesnt make them rely on others for crafting. Thats just done so that you need more characters. They easily could have added a way to 'switch' combat build or something in town so that you can do all combat styles on 1 character (like if u could switch between any primaries you want, but cant have them all enabled at once), if they wanted to. But they didnt. So that people need more characters. They intentionally designed a game that has several different combat and play styles, and them limited how much of them you can do, for no gain to the player.

Which is completely copy pasted over from MO1, which was a game designed for multiple character slots.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

They did so knowing that tons of people will pay for advantage and multi sub.

Also heavily limiting what combat roles a person can play doesnt make them rely on others for crafting. Thats just done so that you need more characters. They easily could have added a way to 'switch' combat build or something in town so that you can do all combat styles on 1 character (like if u could switch between any primaries you want, but cant have them all enabled at once), if they wanted to. But they didnt. So that people need more characters. They intentionally designed a game that has several different combat and play styles, and them limited how much of them you can do, for no gain to the player.

Which is completely copy pasted over from MO1, which was a game designed for multiple character slots.

SV in a nutshell

 

[Vulpin]

Nice fallacious speech, you implying theres no way to work around the design flaws doesn't make it true. I truly don't know whats your P2W definition, for me its pretty simple. If you can pay for advantage then its pay to win.
Or maybe you refer to pay to win for a cash shop? like... come on XD

I believe theres many ways to fix that issue, it would have been important than this was thought before they released the game but they are just finding out now. So either make it more accesible for everyone, limit the accounts people can use or continue to be a p2w shit.

If there a way to work around it what are they?

I for one see non. If they add more character slots it defeats the point of even having a skill point limitation an they may as well remove the skill point limitation. An even than based on your definition of P2W it wouldn't matter how many character slots 1 account has sense based on your definition just by having two accounts the person with 2 accounts has an advantage, even if SV removed the skill point limitation.

Than if they start restricting how many accounts players can have to 1 how can they track who using multiple accounts? They could try an track it via IP but than it's the archeage unchained disaster again were some people who live in the same house play together online so now we're punishing people for living together. My guild alone has two married couples that play online with each other & live together. I would hate to see people be forced to quit the game because some single idiots fail to realize that multiple people can live in the same home an have the same hobby.

Your asking for the impossible than blaming SV for not being able to deliver the impossible. An your definition of P2W is logically flawed on multiple levels for hundreds of reasons. Basically your saying something is P2W because you can't have it not because it actually P2W.

 

[Woody]

Believing SV is doing this for the money is disingenuous. They could just as easy make you pay for character slots, but they dont. They dont even make it easy for you to manage multiple accounts, seeing as you have to log across steam accounts. There's far better ways to extract the maximum value out of your playerbase and this approach is far from it.

The other thing that hasnt been considered here, is if they allowed you to buy character slots say on the login screen for an extra sub, imagine how bad that would look to the average player coming into the game, with no understanding that the game is 100% intended to be playable viably as a single character.

Its not perfect by any means but its definitely the best current interation that works to the intent of SV's goals of encouraging one character that cant be self-sufficient, and with one reputation.

 

[Jatix]

Your asking for the impossible than blaming SV for not being able to deliver the impossible. An your definition of P2W is logically flawed on multiple levels for hundreds of reasons. Basically your saying something is P2W because you can't have it not because it actually P2W.

I'm just asking for them to deliver something close to worth $15 a month after buying the game. Which MO2 is not. It has tons of different types of crafting, weapons, magic, combat styles, etc, and you can barely do 2 things at once on a character. Like wtf is that? Theres full f2p games that you can do 10x+ as much as MO2. They keep adding more skills, more magic schools, etc, but you cant actually fit them on 95% of builds. Whats the point in paying a sub if you cant even play most of the content. Its like the $15 a month is the f2p limited version and someone out there paying more gets the full game. Oh sadly thats how it works right now.

imagine how bad that would look to the average player coming into the game, with no understanding that the game is 100% intended to be playable viably as a single character.

It still looks pretty bad when a new player is getting into the game, then then quickly realizes, "wow, I can only do 10% of the game on my character, and if I want to do more I have to start over. And I bought the game and pay a subscription".

 

[Kinto]

It still looks pretty bad when a new player is getting into the game, then then quickly realizes, "wow, I can only do 10% of the game on my character, and if I want to do more I have to start over. And I bought the game and pay a subscription".

As one of the newer players here, can you go into detail on what I'm missing out on? I've spent over 300 hours in the past 3 weeks on this game and to read that I've only experienced 10% of what it has to offer is pretty crazy to see.

 

[Tzone]

It not really P2W though. Having more accounts doesn't give me an advantage in fights or allows me to gather matz or make gold faster. At most it pay to be more self sufficient, an qyicker access to build diversity. But it doesn't make any of your characters stronger.

An really the argument that it's P2W an intended by the developers is a strawman argument. Because it clear the devs don't intend for one player to pay for multiple accounts, they just have zero means to stop people from doing it. It not like we all live in Japan or Korean an companies can refuse to provide us service if we don't link some form of government offical identification (like SSN, passport, or drivers licenses) to our account so the company can know who is who in the end of the day an restrict our ability to have multiple active accounts (like what is the case for the Korean archeage). Realistically it physically impossible for them to know who is who, for all they know I could be your second account Albanjo making this post to seem like I'm a second person, but reality is how are they to know this how is anyone? Thus it physically impossible for them to prevent people from having multiple active accounts.

One account one house.
Mulitple accounts multiple house.

Right there thats P2W. Having multiple houses means you can control/contest double to resources in different locations compared to other players.

Also having multiple accounts means that if you die on one then you just relog over to the next one that you placed near by geared and ready. So basically if you put the time into it, another life.

When it comes to PvE you can have one at farm location. Farm those mobs till they are depleted then relog to the other character to continue to farm bypassing the time gated farming balances.

 

[Jatix]

As one of the newer players here, can you go into detail on what I'm missing out on? I've spent over 300 hours in the past 3 weeks on this game and to read that I've only experienced 10% of what it has to offer is pretty crazy to see.

Theres a ton you cant fit on your character. You might be able to fit armor and weapon crafting on one build, but if you want to do bows, too bad, thats apparently bad for the economy. Even though your paying for the game and want to put the effort in to be able to make your own bows, and learn its crafting system. Same for mining, alchemy, etc. If you have other profession skills, you cant fit it, you can't experience it.

Combat is the same. If you make a max MA because its generally the best thing to play, especially solo, you cant make a good mage. They are going to add several more magic schools, and you cant touch any of them. Foot fighting sounds fun? Too bad, you cant be a good foot fighter you made a max MA (dont worry tho you arent missing out on much here, foot fighters get no love in MO2). Its even to the extreme that you can make a mage, and still have to pick your magic school. They add a new one, you might have to drop your current one to fit it. Melee, you cant even use all the weapons, you get to pick one. And I get why you cant do every combat on one character, you end up with god characters who are max at everything and thats pretty lame. But thats why MO1 had more character slots. Taking that away just takes away what the player can experience in the game they pay for. And MO2 is doing nothing to fix any of this. They keep adding more and more primaries that we cant fit.

 

[Kinto]

Theres a ton you cant fit on your character. You might be able to fit armor and weapon crafting on one build, but if you want to do bows, too bad, thats apparently bad for the economy. Even though your paying for the game and want to put the effort in to be able to make your own bows, and learn its crafting system. Same for mining, alchemy, etc. If you have other profession skills, you cant fit it, you can't experience it.

I see. I was under the impression that it would be common practice to essentially "respec" by setting your skills or stats to devel so that you could level others. In your example, I'd delevel armor and weapon crafting to level bowyery. Was I misunderstanding this system? Is this something no one really expects to do?

Combat is the same. If you make a max MA because its generally the best thing to play, especially solo, you cant make a good mage. They are going to add several more magic schools, and you cant touch any of them. Foot fighting sounds fun? Too bad, you cant be a good foot fighter you made a max MA (dont worry tho you arent missing out on much here, foot fighters get no love in MO2). Its even to the extreme that you can make a mage, and still have to pick your magic school. They add a new one, you might have to drop your current one to fit it. Melee, you cant even use all the weapons, you get to pick one. And I get why you cant do every combat on one character, you end up with god characters who are max at everything and thats pretty lame. But thats why MO1 had more character slots. Taking that away just takes away what the player can experience in the game they pay for. And MO2 is doing nothing to fix any of this. They keep adding more and more primaries that we cant fit.

Like I said above, I would have previously assumed it would be common that players would unlearn other skills to specialize in another field. So as an example, I would decrease all magic-related skills and increase my more combat-related ones. I get that people who would like to min/max would suffer, but I'm not understanding why this isn't considered. Honestly curious what I'm missing that veteran players see.

 

[Vulpin]

One account one house.
Mulitple accounts multiple house.

Right there thats P2W. Having multiple houses means you can control/contest double to resources in different locations compared to other players.

How does having a house let you contest & control something? It just a storage/crafting place in the world, you still actually have to be at the spot in order to contest it. Your statement makes it sound like if I placed a house next to the sator dungeon well now I control the satir dungeon an I'm preventing people from going into it just by having a house near it.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

How does having a house let you contest & control something? It just a storage/crafting place in the world, you still actually have to be at the spot in order to contest it. Your statement makes it sound like if I placed a house next to the sator dungeon well now I control the satir dungeon an I'm preventing people from going into it just by having a house near it.

What part of paid advantange you don't get? The more you pay the higher the advantage, is it that hard really? Quit defending your playstyle and use logic dude, if it makes you feel safer SV won't take away your alt accounts.

 

[Jatix]

I see. I was under the impression that it would be common practice to essentially "respec" by setting your skills or stats to devel so that you could level others. In your example, I'd delevel armor and weapon crafting to level bowyery. Was I misunderstanding this system? Is this something no one really expects to do?

Like I said above, I would have previously assumed it would be common that players would unlearn other skills to specialize in another field. So as an example, I would decrease all magic-related skills and increase my more combat-related ones. I get that people who would like to min/max would suffer, but I'm not understanding why this isn't considered. Honestly curious what I'm missing that veteran players see.

Yes you can do this but your losing a ton of time each time you respect. What you may not know, right now in beta skills are 100x xp. Right now you can pretty easily drop weapon crafting and get armor crafting up in no time with a few pigs of bone tissue. When the game launches, its going to take 100x as long. This goes from respec in minutes to hours. Thousands of wood, or days of reading the books, to save materials getting to 100 (but luckily most crafting you can at least leave at 70 to max gear stats). And then if you want to make weapons again, you get to drop your armor crafting, and do it again. Repeat.

Same with combat. It may take 2 minutes right now to max a weapon lore, but it will take over an hour of hitting the dummy to get max weapon lore on launch. Thats an hour down the toilet, 0 fun gameplay, because you wanted to try axes instead of swords.

Also for combat, most races arent good at everything. And a race that can do everything is sub par at everything. So while you can respec your ma to a mage, its probobly is the wrong race and is just a worse mage than someone who initially made a mage with the correct race. Which also sucks and needs to be changed so people can intelligently change races.

Which to me, is not a real solution to being limited in what you can do. They need to make it so skills re learn much faster or something. Having to waste hours every time you want to do anything different is garbage.

 

[Najwalaylah]

How does having a house let you contest & control something?

It lets you be in a place and store some stuff in that place.
You might even get fought with in your own front yard.
You must <sarcasm> promise to use these tremendous, territory-inhabiting powers only for good. </sarcasm>

 

[Kinto]

Yes you can do this but your losing a ton of time each time you respect. What you may not know, right now in beta skills are 100x xp. Right now you can pretty easily drop weapon crafting and get armor crafting up in no time with a few pigs of bone tissue. When the game launches, its going to take 100x as long. This goes from respec in minutes to hours. Thousands of wood, or days of reading the books, to save materials getting to 100 (but luckily most crafting you can at least leave at 70 to max gear stats). And then if you want to make weapons again, you get to drop your armor crafting, and do it again. Repeat.

Same with combat. It may take 2 minutes right now to max a weapon lore, but it will take over an hour of hitting the dummy to get max weapon lore on launch. Thats an hour down the toilet, 0 fun gameplay, because you wanted to try axes instead of swords.

Also for combat, most races arent good at everything. And a race that can do everything is sub par at everything. So while you can respec your ma to a mage, its probobly is the wrong race and is just a worse mage than someone who initially made a mage with the correct race. Which also sucks and needs to be changed so people can intelligently change races.

Which to me, is not a real solution to being limited in what you can do. They need to make it so skills re learn much faster or something. Having to waste hours every time you want to do anything different is garbage.

Thank you for answering my questions. You make fair and valid points.

I do have a few more questions though. You stated that the time investment on launch to delevel a skill and level a new one is an issue. If this is the argument for having multiple characters to decrease the time investment, what does this save exactly? Wouldn't you still need to spend the same amount of time on a new character to level those same skills?

It's seeming like overall, it's the time investment to skill-up different builds is the main issue for most. What if, as others suggested, Star Vault implements a way to easier manage to leveling of leveling different skills? What if when you forget a skill, and then attempt to learn it again, the skill gain rate is a bit faster to simulate that the character just needs to familiarize themselves again with that particular skill? Something like a 1.5x or 2x skill gain rate up to the highest level you have achieved in the skill previously?

To write this out:

• I learn Swords to level 89 on launch.
• I want to try Axes.
• I like the feel of it.
• I decide to level it by decreasing swords.
• I get Axes to 69 before I decide I want to go back to swords.
• The skill increase rate is now at 200% up until I get it to 89 where it reverts back to 100%.

If they wanted to, they could take it even further. If you then forget the Sword skill again, the next time you skill it up would be at a 300% rate. The next time, 400% and so on up until some kind of cap. This would allow players who have invested a lot of time in the game to experiment with different builds at a much faster rate.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Thank you for answering my questions. You make fair and valid points.

I do have a few more questions though. You stated that the time investment on launch to delevel a skill and level a new one is an issue. If this is the argument for having multiple characters to decrease the time investment, what does this save exactly? Wouldn't you still need to spend the same amount of time on a new character to level those same skills?

It's seeming like overall, it's the time investment to skill-up different builds is the main issue for most. What if, as others suggested, Star Vault implements a way to easier manage to leveling of leveling different skills? What if when you forget a skill, and then attempt to learn it again, the skill gain rate is a bit faster to simulate that the character just needs to familiarize themselves again with that particular skill? Something like a 1.5x or 2x skill gain rate up to the highest level you have achieved in the skill previously?

To write this out:

• I learn Swords to level 89 on launch.
• I want to try Axes.
• I like the feel of it.
• I decide to level it by decreasing swords.
• I get Axes to 69 before I decide I want to go back to swords.
• The skill increase rate is now at 200% up until I get it to 89 where it reverts back to 100%.

If they wanted to, they could take it even further. If you then forget the Sword skill again, the next time you skill it up would be at a 300% rate. The next time, 400% and so on up until some kind of cap. This would allow players who have invested a lot of time in the game to experiment with different builds at a much faster rate.

Múltiple characters lets you lvl up a build once each instead of having to reroll a character múltiple times to acces the same features. For example having an amor crafter on one char and weapon crafting on another one instead having to drop skills for getting others. Imagine rerolling, losing everyhing in your only bank and having to start over with 100x More difficulty lmao, they really Made it that if you wanna change your character you are completly fucked and have no progression whatsoever. It really coulnd't be worse.

 

[Jatix]

Thank you for answering my questions. You make fair and valid points.

I do have a few more questions though. You stated that the time investment on launch to delevel a skill and level a new one is an issue. If this is the argument for having multiple characters to decrease the time investment, what does this save exactly? Wouldn't you still need to spend the same amount of time on a new character to level those same skills?

Yes it would take the same amount of time even with separate characters. But thats why I dont think more characters is OP like some people think. Its still one player putting in more effort to be able to do more things. Especially when they start adding hard to get recipes. In MO1 my friend spent thousands of gold on the armor books. Most people wont do that, and will still need to trade with armor crafters for those armors. That seems fair to me. The difference with having more characters vs dropping skills and getting it on one is that with more characters you aren't throwing away your effort, you get to keep all the different skills you got up.

Something like your solution could work if SV really wants to keep it 1 character. but they need to do something. Because the current is just really pitiful. You get screwed for wanting to paly more of the game.

 

[wwkiller]

I like the 1 toon per account but there are issues with rerolling that I don't like. People are going to reroll their build either because they get bored of it, start to dislike it, balancing changes, or more skills are added. Well here the major issue rerolling means completely deleting everything you've done an collected over your time playing. Now the idea is that this game should exist for years, and new content, changes, and balancing tweeks are expected to happen.

So while I like the 1 toon per account design I know for a fact sooner or later I will reroll because of one listed reason above. So my recommendation is that the devs implement something so your account progress isn't completely lost into the void when people decide to reroll. My two suggestions are the following. Link bank, stable, housing, and standings data to the account not to the character if possible. Or add a mechanic either potion, NPC, or just a button in the character sheet that resets all your skills to zero but also allows you to complete redesign your existing character from scratch even its race an height stats.

P.S yes I'm full aware you can keep your items via trading it to friends temporarily while you remake your character. But this isn't viable because it only limits you to things that can be traded, and you'd have go from town to town transferring each bank you have items in, it not viable.

a shared rep system seems like a very good idee (i know they first need to fix it) lock the name in place. and wel the reason for reroling for griefing and troling is off the table. if all skills reset to 0 but do remain unlocked, like crafting styles and other skills like advanced taming or herding. link the banks so you dont lose all your stuff. it would be inline with the goals of the one char system while still keeping it fun for everyone. would work very wel i would say.