I've already stated in my post that I was aware of all of the bugs, problems, lack of content etc. There's nothing about your comment that I disagree with. My post is about having utmost patience when you're creating something that is innovative in the realm of gaming (even more than the decade long players that insist they have no faith but continue to play their game).
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- Thread starter m4rt3
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So knowing how small of a team they were back then, you're going to get angry at them that they didn't have someone comb the hundreds of forum posts for all of your specific brilliant ideas? Maybe that was one of their mistakes they wish they could take back? I never once said they shouldn't have taken ideas into consideration. And you're telling me they never made one single change or modification to the game that the forums or community had mentioned? Not one thing?
Either way, complaining about a small team for starting out and beginning the process to creating a magnificient idea. To take the leap of just doing it and trying, with no experience or guide to what is wrong or right. Just a vision a decade ago. And to this day, here you are to just constantly bash them for taking their time in learning and creating.
I never cared or asked for you to justify your opinion.
omg you got 1000s hours of enjoyment out of a game for 60 bucks but you quit after you got bored of 1000s hours. Player bad game good.
Wonder why the player pop keeps dropping and many 1000 plus hour players complain about the games many issues.
The hours we put into the game are an investment. Money is not the only investment and people should voice their complaints about a product that they have a lot of time in.
Just like time is an investment your money was a investment to the games development which doesnt seem to be getting used properly.
The time to money argument is a argument for shallow players.
Dude your kind repeat this shit to the letter idk how you people manage to do it, you are not the first and probably not the last that repeats this argument without knowing shit.
They do sometimes, whenever they want, grab something from the forums and implement it. Sometimes very good additions and sometimes very poor interpretations and even worst implementation.
For example idk if they read it from forums or the stream or discord, not sure which was the actual medium they aknowledged part of the problematics and the suggestion to make houses have group support. It took a few weeks for them to even notice and mention the idea, then a few more for them to tell us in a few more weeks they would work and release group support features for houses in a few more weeks.
And they delivered, very basic features that the game was craving due to really bad choices with pvp punishment. They delivered priests and equerrys, houses with passwords and chests.
Massive quality of life that was actually a very minor addition to the game. But it was done too late, part of the problem they actually need to work with is the fact that they should assess the impact of new features before being added.
Some things were added without seccond thought impacting radically in the gameplay of a lot of people, some good things and some other terribly bad, and these bad things that haven't been anticipated from design end up crippling the gameplay of a lot of people and it takes weeks or months to get aknowledged.
Not saying they should deliver perfect shit, but they should at least consider not releasing total garbage like bounty hunter and invest resources and time in the things that need it. I don't want, need or use a shitty bounty hunter system made from and for simpletons thats completly off, it has no utility and its absolutly unrewarding, and its not me because "i don't like it" its because its really trash design and worse implementation.
Complaining is the best feedback they could get, they should be thankfull theres people actually telling them what are they doing wrong. A normal person, a noob like you would say "hey its indie company" and would continue to play for a week and then quit.
So you don't bring anything to the table but you like to bitch about the bitches. Ill never understand why people think its best to be silent and grab whats given, and not only that you get upset at people that don't replicate that.
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No. It stops being enjoyable after the first few days. And it's never "dark souls" enjoyable or anything. It's just a quite mediocre PVE experience for an indie MMO. "1000" hours was just an expression.
4-20 hours of deep story and engaging gameplay.
Yeah maybe. We don't pay subscription after all. Still when i buy an MMO i expect months if not years of playtime, and if 5 months after release it's obviously dying due to devs' incompetence while the CEO keeps promising boats and basic things that should've taken a priority like balancing, skills that don't work, critical game-breaking bugs, auction stealing players' gold etc are basically ignored (i almost hope they're being ignored and it's not just that devs can't fix the fucking domination), why shouldn't i call them just that - incompetent?
Yes! and NO. I mean you remember that game skate or whatever? haha, I forgot which one, but I mean I could pull up a youtube vid of memes and funny physx. (
Streamers are trash. I say that as someone who records stuff and posts it on youtube, on multi youtubes from diff platforms so nobody can view it, just cuz its kinda fascinating. To be A STREAMER is diff tho. I mean imagine sitting @ MO and it's like ching ching ching people donating money like your clothes are coming off. There should be no real streaming game in MO, but there DEF should be video history.
That aside, pvp is pvp. Sandbox, etc. This gm is soft compared to MO1. I don't think hardcoreness is why people are quitting and anyone w/ brainz quits this game once in awhile haha. Dudes who just sat here for 10 years or w/e it's like ehhh. Same w/ streamers, if there was a good amount of streaming, they would ideally be replaced by a new streamer when they quit. This is a high quit game, just how it goes.
It's really empty now haha. But since I haven't played in a couple months it feels fresh n new. Using dx12 and it's not crashing me anymore
But yea IMO the whole philosophizing about WHY part is over, now the part is HOW TO FIX.
Hmm.. as far as streamers go. When you try and promote streamers who are not in it for the game but for the money you end up with the current situation.
Out of the what 4 streamers he had on the stream day one launch. You had IcePrime, Jonah Vail, Chimmtv, Putzin and Pizzaguy. Nothing against any of them but how many of them still stream MO2? NONE. Iceprime dipped as soon as something new came out. Jonah ran to the next shinny thing when he realized his "dismantling KotO" wasnt going to happen. Chimmtv also ran away to something new for the views. And Pizzaguy tried to hold out but ultimately needed the views too so he moved on. Putzin a MO1 vet still does podcast streams but is rarely playing on stream anymore. So it is bad.
Out of the what 4 streamers he had on the stream day one launch. You had IcePrime, Jonah Vail, Chimmtv, Putzin and Pizzaguy. Nothing against any of them but how many of them still stream MO2? NONE. Iceprime dipped as soon as something new came out. Jonah ran to the next shinny thing when he realized his "dismantling KotO" wasnt going to happen. Chimmtv also ran away to something new for the views. And Pizzaguy tried to hold out but ultimately needed the views too so he moved on. Putzin a MO1 vet still does podcast streams but is rarely playing on stream anymore. So it is bad.
Yeah, unfortunately the streamer life for MO2 isn't a very bright one for most streamers - not even due to population, just to the nature of the game. A game like this has a lot going on between secret recipes for crafting or political drama - broadcasting it on twitch usually never helps in any situation. I'm glad we have a couple MO2 streamers that I enjoy watching - they genuinely love the game and talking about it. Streaming in a niche game like MO2 is a niche in itself.
I think we've all gotten our moneys worth, and I don't think SV is really a crooked company or anything. For example, they definitely are not in the camp of MMO shyster pipedream devs like the Chronicles of Elyria people, or something like that. In fact, like most people here to some degree, I really like SV as a game developer, and like you're saying, love what they're trying to do... The only problem is, and you hear it time and again because it's true, the delivery-- and I'd even be more specific and say the 'project management'/'directorship' end of the operation.
It's completely understandable that people question the vision of development at this point when so much of what should be the core gameplay features of the game remain unfinished, unrefined or completely unimplemented, and it seems like the main priority is always pumping out new content. Even just considering that they decided to go with the official launch at a time when the core of the game was obviously incomplete, and the servers couldn't even come close to accommodating the playerbase... Or, when you consider these same server issues that they allowed to fester until pops fizzled out without making any executive action to correct the situation-- which could have been as simple as standing up more servers ASAP, even if it meant merging later.
The fact that the management/assessment skills just aren't there should be pretty evident. Archery isn't even fully implemented, for example, and instead we are getting necromancy. Clade-gift trees are not implemented, yet we are hearing talk about sailing...? Many core features regarding PvP are obviously unfinished, or if they are finished should be evidently unacceptable to development and be reworked entirely, and instead we get some half-hearted bounty-hunting feature to work within that unacceptable framework...?
So, yeah, definitely agree that people are real downers here, and I do think almost everyone on these forums have gotten their $50 worth and then some-- but as far as being pessimistic about the trajectory of the game, as an IP and standalone MMORPG, that much is understandable. Personally, I bought in knowing that SV has questionable project management skills from MO1, so I'm not really sore about it-- just wish they would look at core things and get the core features of the game in good shape before moving on, but again, can't say I'm surprised.
It's too bad they don't have better project management skills. For example, they could start with just an arena map beta where you load-out with maxed skills in various stuff w/ whatever armor & weapons, focus on just combat and just implementing combat, making sure everything in terms of combat is balanced and fun and fully implemented from a 'core' standpoint before moving on... Then, implement your PvP mechanics, do rounds of testing just on the flagging/rep etc., see how it fits into the picture... Then, work on fleshing out the world, implement all your points of interest, cities, crafting etc... Get that done and working as a holistic system on its own... Then, you can start working on server stress testing, and TC & sieging and that type of thing... Each step of this ideally should be within an open or closed alpha/beta window, and shouldn't be over as a phase until the mechanics being looked at are fine-tuned to where they should be, and everything surrounding them is implemented enough to provide a holistic system... That's the ideal way to move forward development of a game as complex as an MMORPG without ending up with a mosaic of half-implemented features & systems that do not complement one another.
Instead it seems like development has a 'everything everywhere all at once' philosophy, and nothing ever gets any polish, while things that obviously should be implemented by official launch are still not implemented 6 months hence... Instead you have too many half-implemented mechanics, and basically systems that don't work in a holistic framework because most of the time they aren't even fully implemented. You have systems that obviously did not get the kind of oversight they needed, nor the attention given to their ramifications on gameplay, because frankly they were just 'tested' live. Just standing up a test server and approaching development from a 'one holistic system at a time' approach could do so much for the trajectory of the game, but I doubt we will ever see it.
Still, I 100% understand getting tired of all the bitching and moaning on the forums, as it does get hard on the head... Because, the game is fun, and I do think we've all easily gotten our moneys worth at this juncture-- but it just feels bad that no system within what is ostensibly a sandbox pvp MMORPG ever gets the attention it deserves, and instead it's always on to some new shiny thing. Sandbox MMORPGs need dynamic interplaying systems to work; and for these dynamic systems to interplay properly, the care has to be taken to implement mechanics fully and to the desired gameplay loop and player interaction... And obviously many people don't feel that care is being taken.
It's completely understandable that people question the vision of development at this point when so much of what should be the core gameplay features of the game remain unfinished, unrefined or completely unimplemented, and it seems like the main priority is always pumping out new content. Even just considering that they decided to go with the official launch at a time when the core of the game was obviously incomplete, and the servers couldn't even come close to accommodating the playerbase... Or, when you consider these same server issues that they allowed to fester until pops fizzled out without making any executive action to correct the situation-- which could have been as simple as standing up more servers ASAP, even if it meant merging later.
The fact that the management/assessment skills just aren't there should be pretty evident. Archery isn't even fully implemented, for example, and instead we are getting necromancy. Clade-gift trees are not implemented, yet we are hearing talk about sailing...? Many core features regarding PvP are obviously unfinished, or if they are finished should be evidently unacceptable to development and be reworked entirely, and instead we get some half-hearted bounty-hunting feature to work within that unacceptable framework...?
So, yeah, definitely agree that people are real downers here, and I do think almost everyone on these forums have gotten their $50 worth and then some-- but as far as being pessimistic about the trajectory of the game, as an IP and standalone MMORPG, that much is understandable. Personally, I bought in knowing that SV has questionable project management skills from MO1, so I'm not really sore about it-- just wish they would look at core things and get the core features of the game in good shape before moving on, but again, can't say I'm surprised.
It's too bad they don't have better project management skills. For example, they could start with just an arena map beta where you load-out with maxed skills in various stuff w/ whatever armor & weapons, focus on just combat and just implementing combat, making sure everything in terms of combat is balanced and fun and fully implemented from a 'core' standpoint before moving on... Then, implement your PvP mechanics, do rounds of testing just on the flagging/rep etc., see how it fits into the picture... Then, work on fleshing out the world, implement all your points of interest, cities, crafting etc... Get that done and working as a holistic system on its own... Then, you can start working on server stress testing, and TC & sieging and that type of thing... Each step of this ideally should be within an open or closed alpha/beta window, and shouldn't be over as a phase until the mechanics being looked at are fine-tuned to where they should be, and everything surrounding them is implemented enough to provide a holistic system... That's the ideal way to move forward development of a game as complex as an MMORPG without ending up with a mosaic of half-implemented features & systems that do not complement one another.
Instead it seems like development has a 'everything everywhere all at once' philosophy, and nothing ever gets any polish, while things that obviously should be implemented by official launch are still not implemented 6 months hence... Instead you have too many half-implemented mechanics, and basically systems that don't work in a holistic framework because most of the time they aren't even fully implemented. You have systems that obviously did not get the kind of oversight they needed, nor the attention given to their ramifications on gameplay, because frankly they were just 'tested' live. Just standing up a test server and approaching development from a 'one holistic system at a time' approach could do so much for the trajectory of the game, but I doubt we will ever see it.
Still, I 100% understand getting tired of all the bitching and moaning on the forums, as it does get hard on the head... Because, the game is fun, and I do think we've all easily gotten our moneys worth at this juncture-- but it just feels bad that no system within what is ostensibly a sandbox pvp MMORPG ever gets the attention it deserves, and instead it's always on to some new shiny thing. Sandbox MMORPGs need dynamic interplaying systems to work; and for these dynamic systems to interplay properly, the care has to be taken to implement mechanics fully and to the desired gameplay loop and player interaction... And obviously many people don't feel that care is being taken.
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It's just ultimately stupid to stream a full loot pvp game unless you have a massive group and are always getting into fights where you have enough people to win, haha.
Like streaming GK or something would be cool. I think if people were really into the aspect you could put up chars as stream cams in areas, that would be v interesting, but you know people would kill the camera eventually. Esp once a side started getting their ass kicked.
MO community just needs people making good vids. Some of the vids have 2k views or so, which is good. It doesn't mean that many people are watching, but some are. The game has some super funny moments, some fun moments, skill moments, o shit moments... you're not gonna make much streaming on MO unless like I said you are top of the food chain and just smashing everyone, then maybe people would enjoy watching that, but even then dudes gotta do crafting stuff and I doubt they'd stream that or get griefed.
don't have time to read all this atm, but I'll glance at it over the day n finish haha. HOWEVER, one thing about SV is that one of the hidden benefits of playing an Indie Game is the belief (whether or not its an illusion,) that it's YOUR/OUR game. We are paying for this game. They should make what we want. That's how it works w/ indie MMOs, or usually. Not saying make the game what we want, but they should address the things we want them to, and I think they ARE TRYING (maybe?) but they really got some bad info and maybe their info is not relevant anymore. Imagine the road map and all that then still trying to use that after all the stuff they went thru. Yikes!
Peace
Ive got hooked after release. 600 hours on 3 accounts. Awesome!
Maybe not awesome..i go check and 50% of those are riding a horse,20 afk in town and 30% playing. Good.
i was also like the OP. Used to think this guys got everything figured out and the changes they were going to make they already had it designed and only would need the implementation.
so wrong i was. Theres no logic at all in BH. Its just broken and badly design.
Well thats it because in 6 months , thats the only relevant content we had.
Oh we will have necro. Too bad pet pathing still broken.
At the end of the day, population wise tells you how good a game is. Right now theres below 500 players. There was less than 800 at peak yday.
These poor souls are all thats left. The hardcore tryhard that thinks MO2 is the last cookie in the jar.
Maybe not awesome..i go check and 50% of those are riding a horse,20 afk in town and 30% playing. Good.
i was also like the OP. Used to think this guys got everything figured out and the changes they were going to make they already had it designed and only would need the implementation.
so wrong i was. Theres no logic at all in BH. Its just broken and badly design.
Well thats it because in 6 months , thats the only relevant content we had.
Oh we will have necro. Too bad pet pathing still broken.
At the end of the day, population wise tells you how good a game is. Right now theres below 500 players. There was less than 800 at peak yday.
These poor souls are all thats left. The hardcore tryhard that thinks MO2 is the last cookie in the jar.
Its true, the videos do better than the streams. But like all sandbox MMOs, they dont stream well, due to the nature of it being a sandbox. But hey what do I know.
This argument is shit. They have been trying to make MO good for over 10 years. Don’t delude yourself. MO2 is just MO1 upgraded to a new engine with a world of assets, slowly porting over the first games broken content.
So what he does a live stream every week, it’s full of promises and lies (better than sea of thieves lol)
the community for over a decade has been being positive. Henrik listens to Henrik. Blame the community you fanboi. Not the people who have been consistently delivering broken content, exploits and dupes for over 10 years.
You pointing out a fair amount of problematics with the game development. You can't call people pesimistic or negative when SV releases shit like bounty hunter. You may like the proyect but not because of that you are forced to support their idiotic agenda and lack of criteria.
It's not about "feel", It's about shit tier placeholder content. Henrique said not long ago they don't want to release placeholder shit, here we are 90% of the game Is placeholder content hold together with duck tape.
Lets see, nobody gives 2 fucks if you getting tired of the moaning im getting tired of noobs that come and say stupid shit like "hey itz indie companyz" or "the game Is new, cut em some slack" "i like afk mining".
You say SV Is not crooked company, not as COE anyways which didnt ever deliver and was actually a scam.
Here in MO2 even tho It's a new game the concept, ideas and coding come from another game. I get you might be new around here and you are unable to compare the game to the previous version. But all this we are discussing It's already been discussed on really close terms in the other game.
The foundations of MO2 havent been properly thought nor re-designed so we get systems that are incomplete trying to hold on a world of brokeness.
Any idiot can understand the foundations of the game are shit, now Is it so hard to reach to the conclussion the already implemented placeholder content should get finished instead of adding more layers of incomplete content? I mean for real, does anyone in this game want more shitty content instead of polishing?
So we want sieging without pve remake? Do
we want a 30% working necromancy before a law thats player centered Is in order? Do we want bounty hunter before pets or crafting rework?
How can people be asking for new content when they know how Is it going to come out. Wont you rather see the placeholder bullshit finished?
I really thought SV would grow up and deliver a good game, but i knew they would end up replicating poor systems with shit tier development, which Is exacly what happened.
We can only hope they realize this shit b4 It's too late. Idk whos the dumb cunt that rather have a world full of placeholder shallow content instead of depth challenging systems. Combat Is the miracle holding the game, but hey they have time to release trinckets, the opium for the simpletons.
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I can get with that. The dundeons were way better than the store bought assets they have now. I love how Henrik in stream was showing it off like they made the New dungeon. I guess when you click the buy button, it’s a new milestone in gaming.