New players are getting confused about how to leave Haven.

[Tuhtram]

I'm not really sure what the solution is here exactly, but every other new person posting in Help chat is asking 'How do I leave Haven?'. I figure if we follow something similar to the 1% rule, that'd mean that a huge majority of people are just not saying anything and leaving without asking, probably assuming there isn't any way to leave Haven. We've also had a lot of people asking if Haven is the only area in the game, so something is not getting across to the new players and I think a lot of them think Haven is just the game itself.

Figured I'd bring attention to it since the new player experience is extremely important for numbers and bringing new people into the community.

 

[Rolufe]

I recently went trough the haven tutorial my self. But i only did the basic combat and basic crafting and then i went to the statues. I dont recall anything mentioning that i should exit trough the statues. Possibly the problem is that people might not end up seeing them and when they do, dont realize they are portals to Myrland.

 

[Kelzyr]

I bet if they change the statues into portals (just take the ones that they made to get to the ether). That should probably clear up the confusion

 

[Rolufe]

I bet if they change the statues into portals (just take the ones that they made to get to the ether). That should probably clear up the confusion

Yea at least those are looking more like portals to another place

 

[Amadman]

I'm not really sure what the solution is here exactly, but every other new person posting in Help chat is asking 'How do I leave Haven?'. I figure if we follow something similar to the 1% rule, that'd mean that a huge majority of people are just not saying anything and leaving without asking, probably assuming there isn't any way to leave Haven. We've also had a lot of people asking if Haven is the only area in the game, so something is not getting across to the new players and I think a lot of them think Haven is just the game itself.

Figured I'd bring attention to it since the new player experience is extremely important for numbers and bringing new people into the community.

Agreed! This should be made very clear in the tutorial or even earlier.

As well as how to switch to other instances of haven.

It should be made extremely clear on how to join up with friends that are trying the game the first time together. Not only is it beneficial for them to work together, it is sure to be discouraging not being able to find out how to play together when that is their intention.

 

[Gorukha]

They should just let people start in mainland cities where they will get raped by RPK non stop and quit, just like Steam release. It will be quicker than waste their time on a long tutorial with no exit planned.

 

[Rolufe]

They should just let people start in mainland cities where they will get raped by RPK non stop and quit, just like Steam release. It will be quicker than waste their time on a long tutorial with no exit planned.

It wouldnt be as harsh now as it was back then. As priests are supposed to be in towns now and not that much in unguarded areas.
Also if they implement the layered guardzones Henrik was talking about it should be a bit less bandits close to town.

 

[pooternackle]

Haven is a dumb concept. Just give players an on-rails tutorial of the game's systems that concludes with the selection of starting city.

 

[Bogler]

Agree with pooter, there is no reason not to hand hold through the tutorial. Be explicit with the games tutorial, tell them how to craft gather fight level skills up. The works. Let them know the point of the game is to create your own journey and purpose not to follow questlines like most MMOs. If you let them know that they will be killed over and over by players and looted dry they will be less likely to rage quit if they go through a tutorial stating it clearly.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Haven is a good idea getting better all the time.

There is exactly an exit planned from it, after a finite amount of time; @Henrik Nyström 's said so. There's a way to get out now; it's just not easy enough to find. Anyone saying otherwise is trying to put one over on us. Fake news. Pfft.

There is something about the portal spell effect that does fit the purpose of marking an obvious exit, nice though the statues are. Maybe Star Vault could add the first and keep the second immediately behind it.

Agree with pooter

@pooternackle said "Haven is a d.um.b concept." If you agree with that, and can also say

there is no reason not to hand hold through the tutorial

(correctly, in my opinion, as Haven is the place for hand-holding, just as nothing else in Mortal Online 2 will be such a place)....

You'd have to explain to me how, as in the details of what other kind of tutorial you might mean. How would you hold that hand?

Great observation by @Tuhtram of the most common question(s) in Help Chat, and use of "If you see one, there are <x> more" principle.

 

[Draug]

I agree that portals best signals what the statues do. Remove the statues and exchange them for portals.

 

[Goltarion]

Watched a streamer yesterday who was about to quit cause he had no idea how to get somewhere else than Haven. He wasn't even aware that it is just a tutorial island. (He quit anyway a little later since he was in it for the exploration and the world doesn't have enough stuff in it yet to really cater to that).

So yeah, it needs to be made a lot more obvious and clear that "You're in the Tutorial section of the game, you can safely learn the game's basics here or leave to the real game world BY INTERACTING WITH THE STATUES IN THE MIDDLE OF TOWN"

I have no useful suggestion on how to do it, but please NOT through a wall of text pop-up as you enter the game. People are excited to play and imo 90% will just click the pop-up away.

 

[Najwalaylah]

I have no useful suggestion on how to do it, but please NOT through a wall of text pop-up as you enter the game. People are excited to play and imo 90% will just click the pop-up away.

Well, gosh darn those excited people to heck* anyway, but you're very right and a lot of us read well or at least 'real fkn fast', but not all of us.

I dimly remember some voice acting narration in the MO1 Tindrem Gardens Tutorial, and as much as I recall it as slow to load (for me) and tedious to listen to instead of read, maybe a fresh, expanded, and suitably chunked version of it would be the answer to all this confusion in Haven.

Something in audio that if in text wouldn't take more than 280 characters at a time, whispered to one player by NPCs?

Signs on posts, [MYRLAND This Way -->]?

I think Star Vault could afford to try it; it would not turn the game into WoW.

----
* Heck is where people go when they don't believe in gosh.

[FORM]

 

[Gorukha]

Here's an idea. These drug dealers would pester you to buy some crack every 10 minutes. Eventually everyone will try it obviously and go to sleep only to wake up in Myrland. Problem solved.

 

[strycio]

Instead of haven they just could have added some tutorials in every city and a newbie protection that lasts for a certain amount of hours of active playtime.

 

[Amadman]

Here's an idea. These drug dealers would pester you to buy some crack every 10 minutes. Eventually everyone will try it obviously and go to sleep only to wake up in Myrland. Problem solved.

They want players to be able to choose when they want to leave. This would just make the problem the opposite and be sending players off before they choose to leave.


Maybe instead of words they could use pictures with just short sentences .

For example a popup when entering the game with a picture that shows the Statue with fire (possibly with a teleport image as well, as suggested.). Then text like 'Find a Friend in Another Haven !'.

Advancing from that popup could put up another image with the statue without fire. Text could read something like 'Move on to the Real World !'.

In addition, these images could be included in the loading sequences along with the other pictures and hints.

Instead of haven they just could have added some tutorials in every city and a newbie protection that lasts for a certain amount of hours of active playtime.

Retention of new players has always been a large issue with the game. And haven was another attempt at addressing that.

What you are suggesting was attempted the first time around and it did not seem to lead to good retention of new players.

I believe haven is definitely a large step up from what they had before. It just needs some major refining yet.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Instead of haven they just could have added some tutorials in every city and a newbie protection that lasts for a certain amount of hours of active playtime.

That was tried. The world of Nave has moved on.

Feedback was taken. Henrik asked his player community, naturally, but also sought feedback from people who had tried the 'old newbie experience' and quit soon afterward. Those among the ones who didn't stay had a great part in Henrik's decision to have Havens all over, as many as needed (to eliminate crowding), raither than Nave-based tutorials in every city, or a few.

Putting tutorials back into cities wouldn't help with the problem that @Tuhtram reports hearing in Help Chat, which is faced by people who are done with the tutorial (or think they are).


[FORM]Fnord

 

[strycio]

That was tried. The world of Nave has moved on.

Feedback was taken. Henrik asked his player community, naturally, but also sought feedback from people who had tried the 'old newbie experience' and quit soon afterward. Those among the ones who didn't stay had a great part in Henrik's decision to have Havens all over, as many as needed (to eliminate crowding), raither than Nave-based tutorials in every city, or a few.

Putting tutorials back into cities wouldn't help with the problem that @Tuhtram reports hearing in Help Chat, which is faced by people who are done with the tutorial (or think they are).

View attachment 2071
[FORM]Fnord

Interesting, well in this case i am glad haven is what it is, i like the game and found haven as savezone quite enjoyable!

 

[Gorukha]

I think both solutions have been proven to be a failure at this point. Imagine how many dev hours and money was wasted on Haven.
People uninstalling before entering Myrland.
I always said it's utterly mind boggling for open world sandbox games to waste so many resources creating NPC cities.

 

[Tuhtram]

[...]
Putting tutorials back into cities wouldn't help with the problem that @Tuhtram reports hearing in Help Chat, which is faced by people who are done with the tutorial (or think they are).

Yeah, Help Chat was crazy way back when the tutorials were in the cities. Players being blue-blocked, more experienced players finding a way in to kill/troll the new players over and over again until they left and uninstalled while they were trying to do the tutorial... Chaos. Such a huge % of people never made it out of those gardens in Tindrem because of it.

Haven, or maybe a guided on-rails tutorial like people have suggested... or something, is a much better solution than throwing experienced players at the new players for their tutorial experience when they haven't even learned that they have skills or how to eat yet.

[...]

NPC cities are a very large part of MO's design and aren't going away. Either way, that's really not what's being talked about here anyway.

Haven isn't really an actual city and we're discussing the instanced tutorial.