Monetization

Oneirodynia

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Mar 19, 2021
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I'll start off by saying that I've never played the original Mortal Online...or even heard of it, for that matter.

With that out of the way, and correct me if I'm wrong here but, what in the world are you thinking by making this a subscription-based monetization system in today's gaming culture? Bethesda couldn't even make that succeed with the Elder Scrolls Online, an overwhelmingly popular intellectual property...though the reasons for this were multifaceted. You're crippling your playerbase, and likely your profits, by making this a subscription-required game...especially for a game like this, which has plenty of revenue potential with optional cosmetics. That's taking aside the hardships of the pandemic that have vastly strained people's wallets.

Planetside 2 cast aside the subscription model of their predecessor and went entirely free-to-play. Despite their horrendous launch and perpetual complications, it still manages to pull in enough revenue to justify continued updates of a fairly significant scale nine years later. They should have had an initial purchasing cost, as it would have deterred cheating and gave them a financial buffer from the fudged launch, but that's another matter entirely. Either way, they're free to play and their monetization revolves around mostly cosmetics.

Warframe is another game that does exceptionally well through the sale of cosmetics.

ESO managed to salvage themselves by dropping the subscription requirement, though they went in an entirely different predatory direction through the perpetual sale of expansions...which is frustrating, but it can't be argued that it didn't work. There's likely a fair way to do this if they were to adopt something akin to Warframe's economy, where players can sell in-game items to other players for currency that can then be used to buy what would usually require actual cash. I'd farm in ESO to buy an expansion, without hesitation...and there would still be those who couldn't invest the time and, instead, chose to buy the cash-related currency to then trade for what I've harvested. All you have to do is get the scarcity levels right and a healthy economy established.

I truly believe the team should seriously reconsider how they're going to monetize this. You could easily do this cosmetically and have an initial purchasing price of $60 or so...with a cash-shop that provides items like, for example, a darker sort of mossy cobblestone to build with, fancy horse armor, fancy mount colors, unique furniture options, tattoos, piercings, hair styles, weapon styles, armor styles, the works.

So long as this is paired with an equally robust customization systems separate from the cash-only cosmetic shop, it's entirely fair and doesn't leave people with the impression that they're missing out if they're not paying in. I'm not going to care about the fact that I can't get a cool piercing in the cash-shop if I can get something neat in the base customization system... Alternatively, I'd care even less if I could farm materials in-game to trade for the currency that allows me to then buy this item from the cash-shop...because you can bet your backside that I'd be out there farming these materials to trade with someone who didn't have the time to invest, but wanted god knows how many stacks of whatever resource was a bit difficult to get without the time investment.

This sort of thing can work...

Initial Purchasing cost of $60 or so (Both to deter cheating and as a nice financial foundation) alongside a purely cosmetic cash-shop with an in-game economy that allows players to farm for those who don't have the time but have the money to purchase some special form of currency for cash-related cosmetics. You could even do what many games are doing by commissioning the work out. Had Planetside 2 launched right alongside the Player Studio, they would have been monumentally better off...and Warframe's creator-driven content certainly sells well. Individuals have made a career off this new trend and they've been itching to do fantasy work alongside the much more common Science Fiction work they already do. This reduces your costs in creating content and allows the team to focus more on foundational features and advancements in the overall game itself.

Don't make a subscription mandatory in today's gaming climate....this is certainly just my opinion, but I strongly feel it's a massive mistake. It's also one that's hard to come back from when the most hype for a new game is at launch.

Regardless, game looks awesome. The customization of weapons is...well, amazing and ripe for even more monetization in the aforementioned rant.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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A fair point of view.

I think you're omitting that most of the games you mentioned tried a sub model first.

personally i'm willing to pay

whether the market agrees remains to be seen.
 

barcode

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Jun 2, 2020
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mo1 had a free-to-play option (really an infinite 'trial') that ended up causing more problems in the long run. players had many f2p accounts and were abusing them as much as they could. This was mostly a problem because the f2p implementation was not fully thought thru, and I do mostly blame SV and not the players for this.

i would rather they implement a 'plex' equivalent similar to eve. it would cause its own share of problems but i think far less than adding f2p players in the main game world would. cosmetics are an easy cash grab and i dont see why they wouldnt add them, nor why they werent added in MO1. I dont expect to see extreme glowy flashy effects on cosmetics, it simply wouldnt fit in with the game's aesthetic, but certainly there are plenty of things that could.

maybe f2p could be added later with restrictions to the starter island only and no interaction with paid players, but i think SV has seen the folly of allowing them in the game proper.

-barcode
 

Zethes

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Mar 19, 2021
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As it was mentioned above, the F2P model has failed badly in MO1. People would have naked characters logged off all over the map that acted like "cameras". They could log in with them and check out the area, spy on people, have someone "on the lookout" at the dungeon entrance (they would always know before being ganked or anything and they had time to prepare or escape) etc.

Other people would have "full red" characters that they would only gear up and use to kill&loot people, then when they were done they would trade back all of their gear and transfer them to the "main" character again and thus completely bypassing the game's flagging/criminal system.

Not to mention all the big guilds had "undercover" spies in other guilds that would rat out any plan and attack for them. This community is very toxic and cutthroat btw; people have no limits to what they will do (0 honor always, that's a given) just to get an edge in the game.

Considering these things, and the fact that a person's reputation is huge in this game, this is the only monetization plan that they can go with, trust me. This is game like no other game on the market, so you cannot compare its payment model with other games. It has unique features that require a unique approach.
 

Oneirodynia

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Mar 19, 2021
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A fair point of view.

I think you're omitting that most of the games you mentioned tried a sub model first.

personally i'm willing to pay

whether the market agrees remains to be seen.

Not omitting at all.

I mentioned that the original Planetside was subscription-based, and that ESO tried it. I never knew Warframe tried it?

The fact that they tried and failed, with Planetside 2 going an entirely different direction than its predecessor, is somewhat of a testament to my point though. There's better ways...and while you and others are willing to pay, there's a massive volume of people who're no longer willing to jump into a mandatory subscription...but are certainly willing to pay an initial purchasing fee for a game with a entirely optional vanity shop.

I fall into that category. I ALMOST donated to gain access now...until I realized that this was going to be a subscription-based game. It's the same reason I didn't get ESO when they first launched, but bought in later...and even several expansions, though I don't really like that either. Like I said, it would be much better if paired with a method of obtaining those expansions by farming for players without the time to farm materials themselves. That's another story entirely though.


mo1 had a free-to-play option (really an infinite 'trial') that ended up causing more problems in the long run. players had many f2p accounts and were abusing them as much as they could. This was mostly a problem because the f2p implementation was not fully thought thru, and I do mostly blame SV and not the players for this.

i would rather they implement a 'plex' equivalent similar to eve. it would cause its own share of problems but i think far less than adding f2p players in the main game world would. cosmetics are an easy cash grab and i dont see why they wouldnt add them, nor why they werent added in MO1. I dont expect to see extreme glowy flashy effects on cosmetics, it simply wouldnt fit in with the game's aesthetic, but certainly there are plenty of things that could.

maybe f2p could be added later with restrictions to the starter island only and no interaction with paid players, but i think SV has seen the folly of allowing them in the game proper.

-barcode

Yeah, I read about their previous attempt.

As you stated, that's mostly because it wasn't fully thought through...and I suspect the poor implementation and repercussions are why they're shying away from that again. When you have a $60 initial purchasing fee, you tend to avoid those sorts of issues, alongside hackers...so long as you ban them when they're caught. That was an issue Planetside 2 faced, being entirely free-to-play with no buy-in fee, hackers. I never personally dealt with them, but others complained about it on and off throughout the years. This isn't likely a problem they would have had to any moderate degree if you had to pay $60 to buy the game.

Plenty of people are more than willing to toss down $60 for a game like this and, if there's a vanity shop, they're very likely to pay more for a few cosmetics that they're pining for. I've spent money on both Warframe and Planetside 2, but I stopped playing WoW after my initial free months purely because I didn't want my wallet tethered to a game. The base game was purchased for me by a friend, so I didn't really mind playing for the first few months I was provided for free. Otherwise, I'd have never even tried out WoW, just like I never tried out the original Planetside for the same reasons...even though I certainly wanted to.

I'm not in the minority by any stretch of the imagination...and I'm assuming that's the reason the devs tried a free-to-play system for the first game to begin with, no?

That perpetually milking model just isn't mainstream anymore, and I seriously believe that they need to reconsider this and go the path of cosmetics with an initial buy-in. I'm certainly biased, but I'm not wrong either...and the more fair they can make that system, the more they'll likely get out of their community.


As it was mentioned above, the F2P model has failed badly in MO1. People would have naked characters logged off all over the map that acted like "cameras". They could log in with them and check out the area, spy on people, have someone "on the lookout" at the dungeon entrance (they would always know before being ganked or anything and they had time to prepare or escape) etc.

Other people would have "full red" characters that they would only gear up and use to kill&loot people, then when they were done they would trade back all of their gear and transfer them to the "main" character again and thus completely bypassing the game's flagging/criminal system.

Not to mention all the big guilds had "undercover" spies in other guilds that would rat out any plan and attack for them. This community is very toxic and cutthroat btw; people have no limits to what they will do (0 honor always, that's a given) just to get an edge in the game.

Considering these things, and the fact that a person's reputation is huge in this game, this is the only monetization plan that they can go with, trust me. This is game like no other game on the market, so you cannot compare its payment model with other games. It has unique features that require a unique approach.

This is why you don't make it entirely free-to-play, but implement an initial purchasing cost of $60 or so. It's not all or nothing, entirely free-to-play games definitely have their issues...but there's obvious ways around those issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's people out there willing to toss down an additional $60 for a spy...but I'd presume those to be in the minority.

Ultimately, if I'm right about the shift in the gaming community, and I feel that many games prove my point, it won't matter...because it'll be a choice between the game failing or a toxic community. The first MO tried a free-to-play system...why? Likely for the same reasons ESO had to ditch their mandatory subscription, Warframe is free to play, and Planetside 2 dropped the subscription of their predecessor.
 
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Bicorps

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Jun 27, 2020
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Other people would have "full red" characters that they would only gear up and use to kill&loot people, then when they were done they would trade back all of their gear and transfer them to the "main" character again and thus completely bypassing the game's flagging/criminal system.

Oh jeez ...are you sure that you know what you are talking about sir?
 

SoftHater

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Mar 16, 2021
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Hot place full of hate.
As others already stated there are many exploits and manipulations of game mechanics possible in a game like MO2 with a F2P model.
Just ignoring them all, I like the BP2P model just to play in an environment free form the sick crowd of F2P games.
Tbh I see the monthly subscription as a service to pay to keep off most of uneducated teenagers, mainstream game hoppers and streamers followers.

If the game is good i'm happy to pay, ensuring better and healthier community.
If the game is good ...
 

Amadman

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May 28, 2020
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A padded room.
I understand why people feel this way but I see it a little different.

I would rather pay a sub and have the whole complete game from the start than get nickle and dimed for everything.

Which also does include access to future patches/updates.


You also have to consider that if the money is in cosmetics or what ever then that is were they will have to focus to make money.

I would rather them focus on keeping players happy with updates and improvements to the game itself.
 

Oneirodynia

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Mar 19, 2021
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As others already stated there are many exploits and manipulations of game mechanics possible in a game like MO2 with a F2P model.
Just ignoring them all, I like the BP2P model just to play in an environment free form the sick crowd of F2P games.
Tbh I see the monthly subscription as a service to pay to keep off most of uneducated teenagers, mainstream game hoppers and streamers followers.

If the game is good i'm happy to pay, ensuring better and healthier community.
If the game is good ...

The game looks absolutely fantastic, and I have no doubt that it'll be good. Though, I know little to nothing about its predecessor.

I just don't think you'll see enough of a demographic willing to pay into a subscription nowadays, and with the way other game companies have gone...I'm pretty sure I'm correct in that belief. I certainly could be wrong though, this is just the same opinion I held when ESO tried it. I wasn't at all surprised when they dropped it.

I understand why people feel this way but I see it a little different.

I would rather pay a sub and have the whole complete game from the start than get nickle and dimed for everything.

Which also does include access to future patches/updates.

You also have to consider that if the money is in cosmetics or what ever then that is were they will have to focus to make money.

I would rather them focus on keeping players happy with updates and improvements to the game itself.

Well, of course you do...you're already committed to the subscription model. Anyone who agrees with the subscription model is obviously going to be willing to pay for a subscription. No one has to convince you to pay.

The question is whether or not you're in the minority of the greater whole.

That said, I don't want nickle and dimed for everything either, but there's a middleground there that other games have accomplished. For example, Warframe has a really good economy...though that's excluding the steam shop, which I'm not sure on whether or not it also uses Platinum for those vanity items. For the cosmetics they release though, I've never felt as though I had to pay a single penny. Other players bought the Platinum, and I sold them items I gathered in-game for that Platinum.

As for the focus of the development team, that's the exact reason to implement something like the Player Studio (Planetside2) or the Tennogen (Warframe), where artists submit their own work for approval by the devs and sale. So long as there's strict curation of content, you don't have to worry about it not fitting the world.

Subscription has always been the best monetization method for MMORPGs. If a game fails it's not because it charged a subscription.

That was true in the days of WoW and, before that, Everquest.

Not anymore, especially during a pandemic. I guess we'll see though.
 

pakostnyi

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Jun 11, 2020
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I want it to be like in FF14 --> B2P + Subs + Shop. Its best monetization in MMORPG.
I want to see cosmetic shop in MO2. Why not? But subs must be.
 

Avenoma

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Jan 14, 2021
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I just don't think you'll see enough of a demographic willing to pay into a subscription nowadays
I just dropped 10 dollars in 20 minutes of a "new to me" mobile game thats been out for 2 years. And I need to spend 20 moar to get what I need for the short term. Im looking at prolly 200 dollars in 3 months if I decide I want to catch up for PvP bc right now I can only afford PvE.
I suspect this is what yur talking about as in the direction of gaming, even if you arent honest to yourself about it. Its all one big reskinning cash shop and I really really like this mobile game bc its really really hard for me to find one I like.
Maybe more people should rethink how theyve been lead down a path by the nose, when it comes to gaming and spending money for reskins.
 

Floky

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I feel like a 7 day trial would be nice so ppl can try it out and you cant lvl a char to pvp in 7 days probably get a mage out in 5 or 6 days but then you only got it for like 2 days
 

Amadman

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May 28, 2020
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A padded room.
Well, of course you do...you're already committed to the subscription model. Anyone who agrees with the subscription model is obviously going to be willing to pay for a subscription. No one has to convince you to pay.

The question is whether or not you're in the minority of the greater whole.

That said, I don't want nickle and dimed for everything either, but there's a middleground there that other games have accomplished. For example, Warframe has a really good economy...though that's excluding the steam shop, which I'm not sure on whether or not it also uses Platinum for those vanity items. For the cosmetics they release though, I've never felt as though I had to pay a single penny. Other players bought the Platinum, and I sold them items I gathered in-game for that Platinum.

As for the focus of the development team, that's the exact reason to implement something like the Player Studio (Planetside2) or the Tennogen (Warframe), where artists submit their own work for approval by the devs and sale. So long as there's strict curation of content, you don't have to worry about it not fitting the world.

We already know that mortal is not going to appeal to the greater whole. The real question is will this model provide enough money for the developers to continue development of the game.

If it can't, it can't. But I am still a strong believer that if it can, then this model will provide the best chance of continued development of the actual game.


Having artist submit their work? That would only work on systems that are already complete.

There are other systems that need to be created to continue the development of the game.


If it comes to just adding player made art to current systems then actual development is not really happening.

And I do agree that it would not be worth a sub at that point.
 
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Wesley Snipes

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May 28, 2020
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I'll start off by saying that I've never played the original Mortal Online...or even heard of it, for that matter.

With that out of the way, and correct me if I'm wrong here but, what in the world are you thinking by making this a subscription-based monetization system in today's gaming culture? Bethesda couldn't even make that succeed with the Elder Scrolls Online, an overwhelmingly popular intellectual property...though the reasons for this were multifaceted. You're crippling your playerbase, and likely your profits, by making this a subscription-required game...especially for a game like this, which has plenty of revenue potential with optional cosmetics. That's taking aside the hardships of the pandemic that have vastly strained people's wallets.

Planetside 2 cast aside the subscription model of their predecessor and went entirely free-to-play. Despite their horrendous launch and perpetual complications, it still manages to pull in enough revenue to justify continued updates of a fairly significant scale nine years later. They should have had an initial purchasing cost, as it would have deterred cheating and gave them a financial buffer from the fudged launch, but that's another matter entirely. Either way, they're free to play and their monetization revolves around mostly cosmetics.

Warframe is another game that does exceptionally well through the sale of cosmetics.

ESO managed to salvage themselves by dropping the subscription requirement, though they went in an entirely different predatory direction through the perpetual sale of expansions...which is frustrating, but it can't be argued that it didn't work. There's likely a fair way to do this if they were to adopt something akin to Warframe's economy, where players can sell in-game items to other players for currency that can then be used to buy what would usually require actual cash. I'd farm in ESO to buy an expansion, without hesitation...and there would still be those who couldn't invest the time and, instead, chose to buy the cash-related currency to then trade for what I've harvested. All you have to do is get the scarcity levels right and a healthy economy established.

I truly believe the team should seriously reconsider how they're going to monetize this. You could easily do this cosmetically and have an initial purchasing price of $60 or so...with a cash-shop that provides items like, for example, a darker sort of mossy cobblestone to build with, fancy horse armor, fancy mount colors, unique furniture options, tattoos, piercings, hair styles, weapon styles, armor styles, the works.

So long as this is paired with an equally robust customization systems separate from the cash-only cosmetic shop, it's entirely fair and doesn't leave people with the impression that they're missing out if they're not paying in. I'm not going to care about the fact that I can't get a cool piercing in the cash-shop if I can get something neat in the base customization system... Alternatively, I'd care even less if I could farm materials in-game to trade for the currency that allows me to then buy this item from the cash-shop...because you can bet your backside that I'd be out there farming these materials to trade with someone who didn't have the time to invest, but wanted god knows how many stacks of whatever resource was a bit difficult to get without the time investment.

This sort of thing can work...

Initial Purchasing cost of $60 or so (Both to deter cheating and as a nice financial foundation) alongside a purely cosmetic cash-shop with an in-game economy that allows players to farm for those who don't have the time but have the money to purchase some special form of currency for cash-related cosmetics. You could even do what many games are doing by commissioning the work out. Had Planetside 2 launched right alongside the Player Studio, they would have been monumentally better off...and Warframe's creator-driven content certainly sells well. Individuals have made a career off this new trend and they've been itching to do fantasy work alongside the much more common Science Fiction work they already do. This reduces your costs in creating content and allows the team to focus more on foundational features and advancements in the overall game itself.

Don't make a subscription mandatory in today's gaming climate....this is certainly just my opinion, but I strongly feel it's a massive mistake. It's also one that's hard to come back from when the most hype for a new game is at launch.

Regardless, game looks awesome. The customization of weapons is...well, amazing and ripe for even more monetization in the aforementioned rant.
cosmetic shops are great when you have the manpower and budget; mo2 doesnt. Hell a large portion of the world is composed of store bought assets (reason why buildings have non functioning doors).