Main way of increasing stats?

[Darthus]

In today's patch stream, Henrik punches a vendor for like 30 minutes to raise his stats. You can see other people attacking their friends in block stance to do the same.

Will this be the primary way to raise stats in the game/what is in MO1? Multiple people imply to him that doesn't seem like fun, and he basically just says, "Yeah it's ok, skills raise fast in test and I'm just sitting and chatting with you all."

It would seem like you'd want to encourage people to "skill up" by actually doing things like fighting players/mobs, but he also mentions attacking a training dummy/friend as an alternate way to skill up.

Anyone have any idea if this is indeed intended to the primary way to raise your stats on release?

I'm just come out and say it, that seems really dumb and boring, but if it's the safest/fastest way to do it, people will, 100% of the time. If the devs cared at all seems like it'd be pretty easy to "fix", only get skill by attacking mobs or X number of hits per player over a time span (and can't just be blocks). Training dummies maybe only to noob starting stats, and very quick.

 

[Raziel]

I understand to someone outside of “the MO world” looking at someone skilling up on MO is plain dumb and boring. And it is actually!

It’s one of the multiple reasons so many people are pushed away from the game looking at it like an unfinished games as soon as they log in.

You can skill up by fighting mobs and usually noobs used to do it on skeletons on MO1. But mobs are rare and the loots where so unrewarding (you’d get literally nothing unless you spend hundreds of hours on skeletons). That people just do it the fast way and then go for some more rewarding loots on higher tier mobs (no matter the mobs loot was always pretty shit though compare to how hard it was to get it). If they make looting exciting people will farm mobs instead of punching each others.

I’ve been trying the alpha/beta first time today, it’s beautiful but it’s soo empty. I hope they’ll work on that. I guess it’s still an alpha so there is much to do still, but I can feel the vibe of MO1 and I doubt we will have a huge fauna in the game. I bet it will still feel very empty at release.

 

[Rhias]

In MO1 you gain Attribute points by using a skill that requires the attributes you want to rise.
So the fastest way to train combat related attributes was if 10 people punch you at the same time (and you parry/block).
For mages the fastest way was to constantly cast spurt on themselves...

 

[Bernfred]

its not the intention the the basic stats leveling is hard to grind but its balanced so when you want to change your stats build you have to take some time.

 

[Dracu]

To stat up right now heres how i do it:
Putt all points in dexterity.
Run a macro that spam block.
Wait an hour
Done... no other ppl required

 

[Skydancer]

I think its very uninspired from a game design perspective. I think most skills should work more like taming or magic, where you need to train on things within a certain level range in order to receive experience for it - too low and there's nothing you can learn from it, too high and you lack the knowledge needed to learn from the experience. This would certainly get people out doing various things in all professions, and remove cheesy ways to train things like naked punching your friends, blocking pigs, grinding out endless spongewood and cotton gear etc

Will encourage a much broader diversity of activity, character progression and by proxy a better understanding of the world, by trial and error.

I've often heard that competition brings out the best in people, and that when faced with weak opponents you will often never really grow beyond your current ability.

 

[Raziel]

I think its very uninspired from a game design perspective. I think most skills should work more like taming or magic, where you need to train on things within a certain level range in order to receive experience for it - too low and there's nothing you can learn from it, too high and you lack the knowledge needed to learn from the experience. This would certainly get people out doing various things in all professions, and remove cheesy ways to train things like naked punching your friends, blocking pigs, grinding out endless spongewood and cotton gear etc

Will encourage a much broader diversity of activity, character progression and by proxy a better understanding of the world, by trial and error.

I've often heard that competition brings out the best in people, and that when faced with weak opponents you will often never really grow beyond your current ability.

This indeed would probably be the best way to go for on MO, seems like an elegant solution. Would also greatly decrease the number of free kills since you have to regain your statlosses when you die as a murderer and having to do it on high tier mobs would be much more boring.

its not the intention the the basic stats leveling is hard to grind but its balanced so when you want to change your stats build you have to take some time.

For me an MMO should be build around people playing the game not macroing it. That was an issue on MO1 making the game feel so empty of content and badly designed that you had to macro to play. Fixing this in the second opus seems like a must. Not blaming you, I did the same and macroed my way into the game last night when I first logged to have a decent char. It’s just sad to make the best way to play the game : not playing the game ! It’s stupid and could be one more huge reason to push people out of the game that could be easily fixed.

 

[Eldrath]

Experience gain should be linked to what you do. How much damage do you do. How damage do you block. How much durability do you create.

That way macros would still work, but playing would feel more rewarding.

 

[Necromantic]

I've said for years you need slower, long term progression that is more embedded into gameplay that incentivizes gaining skills, attributes and overall progression "naturally" during normal play. Not some quick macroable stuff that you just have to get out of the way before "starting" to play.
You'll never get away from people macro spamming in the start before anything else if the system is actually basically designed for that, which any "get combat attributes fast with simple actions" approach is.

 

[Bernfred]

I've said for years you need slower, long term progression that is more embedded into gameplay that incentivizes gaining skills, attributes and overall progression "naturally" during normal play. Not some quick macroable stuff that you just have to get out of the way before "starting" to play.
You'll never get away from people macro spamming in the start before anything else if the system is actually basically designed for that, which any "get combat attributes fast with simple actions" approach is.

i think its good how it is because the experience you have with a longer up leveling is still just 1% of your total playtime.
its more important in a single character system that you can switch your build fast enough, if you extend the time then people will still use macros but its more tedious. you could even let new characters start with full stats, what matters are the skill points.

 

[bubbles]

Let us spend all our attribute points in character creation, the attribute grind provides literally no value to the game

 

[Dracu]

Let us spend all our attribute points in character creation, the attribute grind provides literally no value to the game

so much this!

 

[Anabolic Man]

i would find it better, if you have to chop wood and go mining/fighting mobs to increase stats. It will rise stats, but it should be more effective as to let your character be punched. It just not feel to be a good mechanic. It was implemented, so red players can be stebbed up very fast, but they could go chopping wood aswell. I think you should not need to gain skill, if you have no Skillpoints avalible, to rise the stats from mining/Woodcutting, Would also make more sense. Who would let himself get punched by 5 people to get stronger, without fighting back, except some wired individuals as the proudboys ?

 

[Aesorn]

It's probably one of the few things copied from UO that actually shouldn't exist in this game. A private server called UO Outlands fixed this by making leveling from pvp much much slower.....training dummys only getting you to like half max skill... and only being able to farm a few skill points per mob. I think this would be a easy decent fix for this issue.

 

[Blood Thorn]

LiF allowed for the raising of skill points through a timer that burned through your experience points pool. You added points into the pool by performing tasks, and if you were a subscriber you could double the amount of points in your pool, as well as use 1 hour boosters to double the skill gain. A novel system, but the results were pretty much the same. You login, spend an hour doing something that may or may not be useful in your progress, then go off and do something that actually needed to be done. Players also found tasks that granted faster skill point gain into their pools based on the length of time to perform certain tasks.

Skill/Attribute game is ultimately all the same. You either do mindless tasks to keep up with the other players who are doing those tasks, or you just play the game and fall behind. Any other system divests players from having a sense of accomplishment. Just like life, its the completion of difficult/unpleasant tasks that we remember and take pride in. The easy stuff is fun, fleeting, and mostly forgotten.

 

[Vagrant]

Experience gain should be linked to what you do. How much damage do you do. How damage do you block. How much durability do you create.

That way macros would still work, but playing would feel more rewarding.

yes, it's been a few years since i've done this and it still seems odd gaining stats from what feels like tricks and cheats like spamming block/spurt/punch-or-chop-a-tree using little to no damage/loss in the 'learning' process

i get that it feels like a rush for everyone to get up to full stats to be competitive asap but it's pretty immersion breaking in context

 

[Teknique]

Why don't people just go chop wood if they want to chop wood?

I'd rather not grind for 6 years

 

[Vagrant]

there's gonna be soooo much of the afk wood chopping,
can't wait to see that all over the place with a population raising stats again

 

[Svaar]

LiF allowed for the raising of skill points through a timer that burned through your experience points pool. You added points into the pool by performing tasks, and if you were a subscriber you could double the amount of points in your pool, as well as use 1 hour boosters to double the skill gain. A novel system, but the results were pretty much the same. You login, spend an hour doing something that may or may not be useful in your progress, then go off and do something that actually needed to be done. Players also found tasks that granted faster skill point gain into their pools based on the length of time to perform certain tasks.

Skill/Attribute game is ultimately all the same. You either do mindless tasks to keep up with the other players who are doing those tasks, or you just play the game and fall behind. Any other system divests players from having a sense of accomplishment. Just like life, its the completion of difficult/unpleasant tasks that we remember and take pride in. The easy stuff is fun, fleeting, and mostly forgotten.

that's right! by doing simple things such as mining resources, your PVE experience bar fills up. you can put to study any skill (like in eve online) and do everyday things (mining, craft, etc.). There was also a pool with PVP experience, which could be obtained in training with a dummy or in hand-to-hand combat. When filling this PVP pool with experience, it could also be spent on learning combat skills. Thus, we played the game and did not think how we could stand on the macro for hours to pump our character. Thus, character pumping was almost the same in speed for the entire server (except when the player did not gain experience points). Why not make such a system? The first thing we see after the patch is the crowd of people who stand on the macro and beat each other in order to pump up their attributes =) Don't you think this is a very primitive gameplay?

And another plus of such pumping is the possibility of offline character pumping, then when we are at school, college, at work, or doing household chores.

 

[Darthus]

that's right! by doing simple things such as mining resources, your PVE experience bar fills up. you can put to study any skill (like in eve online) and do everyday things (mining, craft, etc.). There was also a pool with PVP experience, which could be obtained in training with a dummy or in hand-to-hand combat. When filling this PVP pool with experience, it could also be spent on learning combat skills. Thus, we played the game and did not think how we could stand on the macro for hours to pump our character. Thus, character pumping was almost the same in speed for the entire server (except when the player did not gain experience points). Why not make such a system? The first thing we see after the patch is the crowd of people who stand on the macro and beat each other in order to pump up their attributes =) Don't you think this is a very primitive gameplay?

And another plus of such pumping is the possibility of offline character pumping, then when we are at school, college, at work, or doing household chores.

Agreed, either make a system that fits with the world/gameplay you want to see (such as something above or a modification thereof) or as others have said you just give you maybe some points when you make your character, and then give you the rest when you leave Haven. There should not be a difference in total power between individuals based on their ability to macro spamming things. I think it's an opportunity for meaningful in game progression, but that's just me. What's currently in the game I'm sure is inspired by games like UO and Elder Scrolls (doing things raises those things), which sounds great in theory (because it suggests you organically become better at what you choose to do in the game), but in reality it's the reverse, you choose what you want to do, and then go grind that until you're where you want to be for what you chose to do.