Leveling speed in the beta

[Woody]

EDIT: I stand corrected! It is still 100x faster but instead of us receiving 100x more exp amount for an action in game and leveling up via the exp bars, they've kept the amount of exp per action the same and just moved the goal posts closer to make it 100x faster to reach max level. This is done by making 1 whole bar of experience (which in live will give you +1 level) instead be worth 100 levels (in effect 100x quicker to reach level 100). This is achieved by dividing the exp bar amount up into 100 equal bite size chunks which gives you +1 effective level each time you reach the next chunk. Thank you User_name for clarifying. Not sure how I got to 10000x, clearly my quick math is failing me

The question is now, what will the experience points required for each level look like and will they scale? If so, then the time it takes to max level could still be longer than we currently are able to test in beta.

*Changed the title from "Leveling is 10000x in the beta, here's why" to "Leveling speed in the beta" as to not be misleading/clickbait

Spoiler: Original Post/Theory

I've been trying to determine what the rate of leveling will feel like when we go persistent without the beta's 100x speed rate and I've come to the following conclusion, that we're actually currently at around 10000x. I know, hear me out.

TLDR;

• You'll need to accumulate a full bars worth of exp to level up one skill point.
• Currently all they've done is taken one full bar amount at various levels, and divided it into 100 levels. Reaching the divided amount of exp grants you a "level". E.g. 75000exp cap / 100 levels = 750exp per level.
• 100x doesn't mean the rate of exp is 100x faster. The exp amounts you're getting in beta as of now are accurate to what you'll get in persistent.
• So really, if we need to level up 100 bars worth of levels to reach 100, then it's really 10000x longer than what it is now, 100x100.

Here is my theory and thinking on it:

• The amount of exp we get from any action is still currently accurate to what it will be in persistant. e.g watch the amount of exp you get for doing something e.g swining a weapon, and you get 9exp from swinging and dealing damage. This seems like a fair amount even in persistent.
  • Haven't they just added a 100x multiplier to all exp gains?
    • Ok the reason this isn't their current implementation in beta is that would mean in persistant we would get 0.9 exp a swing, which would be poor design and implementation. So perhaps they didn't already have a multiplier value in the code that could adjust these rates easily. This would've taken time to go back through and add.
• In persistent, the experience bar for each skill will need to be filled up to gain +1 level.
  • Do you notice that right now in beta at Level 100, the exp bar is always just slightly under full when you first reach level 100?
  • Furthermore, what would be the point of an exp bar that tells you how long until level 100. We already have that information by checking what level we currently are. The experience bar is there to tell you when you're getting that next juicy level.
  • The experience bar's tooltip actually supports this:
    • "Your current exp and how much experience you need to reach the NEXT level"
• So when they say it's 100x faster now, all they've actually done is taken each exp bar's cap amount and divided the amount by 100.
  • You then get a level per that amount of exp after dividing eg. 75000/100 = 750exp per level.
  • From testing weapons, most categories seem to be fixed to the 45000 cap amount and I always got a level after 450 exp.
  • Perhaps this is the source of some of the wonky skill bug woes we've seen in beta.
• Why would some books have duration of 900+ hours if the rate of exp we've been assuming is going to be short anyway? And this is only to help you reach level 70 for these books. That's also only for 1 skill.

So really given we'll need to level up these bars 100 times to max them out, and assuming the rate of exp we're getting for our bars right now hasn't been altered, really it'll take 10000x times longer than it is now in beta (100x100).

Obviously this assumes a linear scale and that the cap amounts won't grow exponentially, e.g level 1 requires 1000 exp, 2 2000exp, 3 4000 exp etc. see this reply below for an example of this:

Leveling speed in the beta

EDIT: I stand corrected! It is still 100x faster but instead of us receiving 100x more exp amount for an action in game and leveling up via the exp bars, they've kept the amount of exp per action the same and just moved the goal posts closer to make it 100x faster to reach max level. This is...

mortalonline2.com

I stand to be corrected (especially on my math, please correct me) but if this is the case, we're in for a grind after all. Thoughts?

 

[fartinthewind]

i certainly hope that this is the case and getting to 100 is a long ass grind for all skills would make the game much more fun for me at least if people were not max action and prof skill points in a week or two.

 

[Kaemik]

If getting to 100 is a long as grind for combat skills RIP MO2. "PvP" games with long PvE grinds are pure trash. ArcheAge2? No thanks.

I'd love to see professions take some actual effort to raise as an alternative to skillcaps but if this game becomes a grinder on the PvP end then just shoot it and put it out of it's misery now. Mastery of our builds is supposed to be what sets us apart on the PvP end. Not how many times we've spurt ourselves in the face or even how many walkers we've killed.

 

[Woody]

If getting to 100 is a long as grind for combat skills RIP MO2. "PvP" games with long PvE grinds are pure trash. ArcheAge2? No thanks.

I'd love to see professions take some actual effort to raise as alternative to skillcaps but if this game becomes a grinder on the PvP end then just shoot it and put it out of it's misery now.

This might be why it's been said that 70 is typically the max effectiveness for every stat and everything above 70 just progresses toward flair/cosmetic changes and additional durability value. Henrik said at 100 you get a chance to craft legendary items that have your name engraved etc.

 

[Kaemik]

This is not true for combat stats. And it was never said it would be true for combat stats. Only some crafting stats follow that rule.

 

[Woody]

This is not true for combat stats. And it was never said it would be true for combat stats. Only some crafting stats follow that rule.

Okay. I couldn't make a call yet on what the implications might be for balance vs grind when it comes to combat skills. I guess so long as the majority of the benefit from these skills are felt early-mid level cap (assuming they're following an exponential exp scale) then it "might" be okay. Who knows. Hopefully they give us 1x skill rate for the next test phase so we can see.

EDIT: Here's what I mean assuming an exponential scale so long as the benefit gained from leveling up is linear and the time investment/exp required to level is exponential, the value amount gained per time spent leveling diminishes:



And this doesn't take into account the individual benefit of each skill may be marginal anyway between level 1 and 100, e.g. Combat Manouvering is only a bonus of +0% -> +10% to stamina regen when walking in combat mode.

 

[BongRips]

I hope it takes awhile too. Everyone being max skills at launch would be stupid. If we have only one character it should take awhile to earn those skills.

 

[Woody]

I hope it takes awhile too. Everyone being max skills at launch would be stupid. If we have only one character it should take awhile to earn those skills.

And therefore a while to respec out of skills and learn new ones over the course of you playing the character. Agreed. Also adds to the labour required to level multiple accounts which is another positive to disincentivizing multi accounts.

 

[AnabolicRage]

Leveling a pvp capable character in MO1 was not too bad of a grind. Mounted stuff took a little bit longer but I always believed the real grind was the crafting skills. Foot fighters were always the easiest to level imo. Hopefully MO2 isn't a huge grind to level a character pvp wise but we won't know until persistence.

 

[Kaemik]

Personally I hope people are combat viable on the first day of play and maxed shortly thereafter. A great many of us are here because we are tired of the "no life PVE crap to win" model of traditional MMOs.

If a PvPer wants to get better it should be by PvPing. Thankfully there is already a mechanic built into the game that does just this. The fact you need to practice hard to actually get good at this combat system.

If a crafter wants to get better it should be by crafting though. This is why I support a long grind for crafting, and only crafting. Long enough to render the trash skillcap system redundant so it can be removed. Let crafters distinguish themselves by how much work they have put into getting better at their profession.

 

[Archiel]

Personally I hope people are combat viable on the first day of play and maxed shortly thereafter. A great many of us are here because we are tired of the "no life PVE crap to win" model of traditional MMOs.

If a PvPer wants to get better it should be by PvPing. Thankfully there is already a mechanic built into the game that does just this. The fact you need to practice hard to actually get good at this combat system.

If a crafter wants to get better it should be by crafting though. This is why I support a long grind for crafting, and only crafting. Long enough to render the trash skillcap system redundant so it can be removed. Let crafters distinguish themselves by how much work they have put into getting better at their profession.

Isn't the only difference between pvp and pve the player skill and not the character skill, if you swing a sword at a walker or a player you are still swinging the sword.
I believe the only way to get better at pvp is to pvp but to get a character built up should take more time and effort than hitting your buddy with a wooden sword.

 

[Kaemik]

I believe the only way to get better at pvp is to pvp but to get a character built up should take more time and effort than hitting your buddy with a wooden sword.

Why? Serious question. I get that PvE grinding for character stats is how nearly every MMO has always done it it. But why? Does it really enhance the game experience for people who came here looking for action combat and good fights?

Not in my opinion. I think the grind is a large part of what has killed the entire MMO genre, particularly PvP MMOs, and seen it replaced by MOBAs.

Personally I'm here because I believe adding economy and territorial control is far more interesting anything a MOBA can offer. But I don't see how a long character grind time enhances anything. Whether it's macro smacking my buddy with a wooden sword or killing 10,000 risars I really just don't enjoy PvEing to get better at PvP. When I actually want to grind I log into my crafting account.

 

[Woody]

Isn't the only difference between pvp and pve the player skill and not the character skill, if you swing a sword at a walker or a player you are still swinging the sword.
I believe the only way to get better at pvp is to pvp but to get a character built up should take more time and effort than hitting your buddy with a wooden sword.

This appears to be the intention, with the action skill system giving flavour to your build via subtle buffs/bonuses etc. So long as they remain subtle with only minor bonuses through the levels, should be a non issue for PvP viability, leaving the players mechanical skill to be the deciding factor.

 

[MolagAmur]

No need for skills to take a long time to level up. It will create that gap that every single other MMO has when a new player joins. Grinding in MO should stick to wealth, territory, reputation, and personal skill. Making skills take longer will just mean longer afk macroing and more useless armors to craft to get your skill leveled.

No thanks. Literally no benefit to the game in my opinion.

 

[Xunila]

Clade gifts will get a progress over years! You have to kill e.g. 9000 undeads to come from clade gift number 16 to clade gift number 17. And you are crying about action skills which can be maxed after some hours? Yes, leveling mounted skills take longer, but go hunting for some hours and it's done, too. And, I agree, leveling profession skills should not be as slow as in MO1: Crafting hundreds of weapons/armor parts/bows to get the max skill is just stupid. But crafting four bows to max the skill (I did this some days ago) is too fast.

And you calculation of 100x100=10.000 is very strange. The factor is simply 100 as you can see at the clade gifts where one undead now gives 100 points and with persistent state 1 point. When I'm crafting four bows to max the skill this would mean 400 bows with persistent state, but not 40.000! In MO1 the value of 400 might be too low, but you didn't need more than 1000 or 2000.

 

[Woody]

Clade gifts will get a progress over years! You have to kill e.g. 9000 undeads to come from clade gift number 16 to clade gift number 17. And you are crying about action skills which can be maxed after some hours? Yes, leveling mounted skills take longer, but go hunting for some hours and it's done, too. And, I agree, leveling profession skills should not be as slow as in MO1: Crafting hundreds of weapons/armor parts/bows to get the max skill is just stupid. But crafting four bows to max the skill (I did this some days ago) is too fast.

And you calculation of 100x100=10.000 is very strange. The factor is simply 100 as you can see at the clade gifts where one undead now gives 100 points and with persistent state 1 point. When I'm crafting four bows to max the skill this would mean 400 bows with persistent state, but not 40.000! In MO1 the value of 400 might be too low, but you didn't need more than 1000 or 2000.

This wasn't evaluating clade gifts. It's very possible that they are set to 100x. I've identified that the experience bar for levelup a normal skill is the true representation of the exp required to reach the next level and from testing, was able to identify that all they've done to make skilling faster in the beta is by arbitrarily making it so you get levels by progressing through a single exp bar. Therefore, if we have to complete 100 levels worth of exp bars, then technically it's 100x100 of the current beta rate.

I don't know if this statement makes this more or less confusing, so apologies! haha

No need for skills to take a long time to level up. It will create that gap that every single other MMO has when a new player joins. Grinding in MO should stick to wealth, territory, reputation, and personal skill. Making skills take longer will just mean longer afk macroing and more useless armors to craft to get your skill leveled.

No thanks. Literally no benefit to the game in my opinion.

Let's hope the time investment vs power gain from action skills is appropriately balanced because it seems they still want this aspect of builds and leveling in the game when it comes to combat.

 

[BongRips]

No need for skills to take a long time to level up. It will create that gap that every single other MMO has when a new player joins. Grinding in MO should stick to wealth, territory, reputation, and personal skill. Making skills take longer will just mean longer afk macroing and more useless armors to craft to get your skill leveled.

No thanks. Literally no benefit to the game in my opinion.

It will also make it so when the new meta comes out, you can't just join the meta in a few days. Some people will choose to keep their character even if it isn't the meta because of the time it takes to reroll. That's a good thing imo.

 

[Lolshaze]

Since you can have only 1 character, respec, re-roll another charter should not be as hard (grind wise). I don't know why some people want this to be a game where you have to spend months, probably a year to get to max level of ONE skill... Do you know what 10000x actually means ?
Cant wait to get back from my real life work, log in into game (on release) and spend 4 hours to gain 1 point on one of my skills. Profit!

 

[Archiel]

Why? Serious question. I get that PvE grinding for character stats is how nearly every MMO has always done it it. But why? Does it really enhance the game experience for people who came here looking for action combat and good fights?

Not in my opinion. I think the grind is a large part of what has killed the entire MMO genre, particularly PvP MMOs, and seen it replaced by MOBAs.

Personally I'm here because I believe adding economy and territorial control is far more interesting anything a MOBA can offer. But I don't see how a long character grind time enhances anything. Whether it's macro smacking my buddy with a wooden sword or killing 10,000 risars I really just don't enjoy PvEing to get better at PvP. When I actually want to grind I log into my crafting account.

This isnt a CoD style game though the progression is part of the style, also having the character take a little while to build stop people rerolling when they turn red griefing in town....or the other people that break SV rules and come back on another account

 

[Woody]

Since you can have only 1 character, respec, re-roll another charter should not be as hard (grind wise). I don't know why some people want this to be a game where you have to spend months, probably a year to get to max level of ONE skill... Do you know what 10000x actually means ?
Cant wait to get back from my real life work, log in into game (on release) and spend 4 hours to gain 1 point on one of my skills. Profit!

I'd recommend reading the OP fully as I'm not suggesting this is what it should be, more so this is what it is likely currently and that beta isn't reflective of what the skill rate will be

This isnt a CoD style game though the progression is part of the style, also having the character take a little while to build stop people rerolling when they turn red griefing mounts in town....or the other people that break SV rules and come back on another account

You're not wrong and I believe there's a fine balance underneath it all that when done right, can have a positive impact in combating some of the more gameable systems, like rerolling out of your characters reputation and standing on the server.