I'm done w/ testing, but I have to reiterate:

[LordMega]

Don't be a bad boy? All of these people used to tell me go play mordhau if you want nonstop pvp. If you can't travel to another new city of a new rep to pvp there's something terribly wrong with you. Why do you people insist on having perks of a blue player, but pvp like a red one? Move to kran? Move to gk? Try not living in a blue city and pretending to be a red player. It's so conflicting.

I think the real problem is not so much people just being 'murderers', but people who pvp pretty much at all will lose so much rep so quickly. If you're playing with a guild, you will get in a fight to protect your guildmates. It doesn't matter if your guild is RPK or ARPK, it happens. A lot of times in these battles, people on both sides are flagged. The only way to prevent being murdercounted is to either hit no enemy players, or only hitting local gray players- either way you're a detriment to your team and potentially letting your guildmate die to protect your rep if you do this. Furthermore if you're an active player this happens several times a day. 5 rep is nothing, you can lose twice that in a single small skirmish.

Now all you did was fight to protect your guild for 5 minutes and you're now banned from town. Great gameplay.

 

[Jatix]

Current rep system sucks. Parcel running sucks.

The only single thing the system does well is prevent mount griefing in town, because its not worth the rep loss.

For camping nubs at the GY, its just going to be red guilds who play all day who live out of TC and dont care about rep anyway, who can p2w with blue alts to trade in town.

All the current rep system really does is punish normal players for ending up in engagements, fighting over dungeons, etc. they get some nice standing loss wherever their enemies home priest to, which could be nowhere related to where they killed them.

And parcel running, is a horrific choice of how to get rep. Its not fun, and its not interactive. It exists to waste your time. Games are supposed to be fun, and MO2 isnt trying to be that apparently.

 

[Bladeer01]

putting my grain of salt here ;


i do think there is a need to separate wild pvp , and town pvp

one should be reportable with bounty system ( an ingame build one , not the random "head buy order " ) with a cash able bounty

the other should be reportable with an actual rep loss



i'll add that pvp death should make you lose state in a combat skill , death is not punishing enought ; i mean , let's be honest , if i kill lot of ppl in the wild and my head is worth lot of golds , i'll just suicide to cash my own head :d

 

[LordMega]

Current rep system sucks. Parcel running sucks.

The only single thing the system does well is prevent mount griefing in town, because its not worth the rep loss.

For camping nubs at the GY, its just going to be red guilds who play all day who live out of TC and dont care about rep anyway, who can p2w with blue alts to trade in town.

All the current rep system really does is punish normal players for ending up in engagements, fighting over dungeons, etc. they get some nice standing loss wherever their enemies home priest to, which could be nowhere related to where they killed them.

And parcel running, is a horrific choice of how to get rep. Its not fun, and its not interactive. It exists to waste your time. Games are supposed to be fun, and MO2 isnt trying to be that apparently.

One thing to consider is how interactions happen in the world. If you're running back and forth between cities all day to run parcels, you're certain to run into other players. Literally you're going to wind up losing rep to pvp that you encounter, as you're trying to gain your rep. When you could grind rep at Risars it wasn't too bad. You would get lots of pvp encounters at risars, but you could grind enough there that you would negate the rep lost from pvp pretty easily. Now you go out, you ride 15 or 20 minutes on your horse and get 1-2 rep at the town if you survive and make it to delivery. Then you ride back, rinse and repeat. Even with only ~800ish players online you literally run into players almost every trip. I can't imagine trying to run parcels at release for rep, you'll be losing just as much (or more) rep as you gain.

Is the intended gameplay for everyone to just wave at each other as we ride past one another in the wild, on our way to grind rep so that maybe next time we see each other outside we might risk having a fight?

Let's not forget that AT CURRENT, you can't really live outside of town. I can have chests full of gear and supplies at my house/guild keep, but there is no priest there to resurrect. There also isn't a full set of crafting since you can't really do extracting unless you're at an NPC town. It'll be nice when that content comes into the game and we can have a stables/priest/etc and live out of houses, strongholds & keeps- but right now, it's quite difficult.

 

[Emdash]

Another things that sucks is like... I enjoy living in Bakti, or let's say JC if things went well. I spent almost all of my time in MO1 in Bakti and Jungle. I ran stuff, but the majority of my play style is that. I did pass by JC a lot, so that's *an option*, however I mostly went W jungle for turtles/molvas, but this is the first time I've ever felt the need to HAVE to do something to play in "THE SANDBOX" MMO. I don't play sandboxes to do quests. I'd like to believe what I do in and around town would get me rep, and it does, with other players. However, it is not accounted for AT ALL with the rep system. If it was, there would be no problem.

The reason MC system was actually better (even tho people say you can do more pvp/grief with the current system... and you can...) is that 1. you have to kill and be MC'd to get a MC. and 2. during game play the MC is being bled off. Sure, some people just leave their acct logged in all of the time to bleed off MCs, but we're talking about 5 instances of aggression EVER, for the life of your character, if you take out parcels. It's really that bad.

It's so bad and so non-beneficial to most-all players that even dudes like For Sure and Shmerrick have come in to troll vote No because they know it's not going to affect them in the least. If anything, it will protect them. This is potentially a 'quit da gam' thing just as much as dying in the GY is, and I think you will see that very quickly upon release when people start playing for real. Because you can live a mostly sainted life and still go neg rep because dude instigated a fight and his bud was blue. Or, imagine if you aren't playing with crims training wheels on (off actually), and you hit another blue in a fight, you lose rep for that, too.

I can not engage in PvP at all, and I probably won't, but unless they add in some of the interesting content that was in MO1 (like soph cooking v2!), I dunno what there is to do other than mass-produce mats, mounts, etc... and that's cool, but I mean at some point you wanna use gear on something other than a mob, right? At some point, you are gonna have such a ridic stack of mats that you're gonna be like WELL I GUESS I WILL SPEND TODAY RUNNING PARCELS. Zzz...

And yea, you can line it up with trips out, but I've always had the ability to set my stuff up so I don't have to go out if I don't wanna (my talent: system building.) I traveled, but not nearly enough if you count 1 rep per parcel. Sure, over time, it will add up, and I am not a hugely pvp oriented player, but it's still greatly impacting the game play and it is the first quest... an awful one, at that. We're not talking like bring back 1k keel scale for 1 rep or 1k iron wool for 2 rep (using bakti as an example), we're talking about running back and forth to Moh-Ki doing nothing but dumping 0 value items into a closed loop, basically being outside of the game economy for that moment. And it also gives an advantage to people who wanna camp out those routes and prevent people from ever getting rep back.

It really is game-breaking-ly bad. You guys are gonna see, on release, but I'm just trying to give a heads up. MC system was ok cuz only salty nubs gave MCs haha, and it burnt out over time. It probably should have maxed at higher than five tho, to be fair, cuz like I said I'm not in it to gank people for their stuff. I can make my own stuff easier I don't have a power complex where I enjoy lifting people's gear. But there are def times when you have to fight, even if you are a super care bear. People hiding behind flags has always been semi-annoying, but it just got 100x (no pun!) more annoying.

TLDR: Rep system GOOD. What it is now... BAD. VERY UNDERDEVELOPED. VERY NON-SANDBOX. They say they wanna take hardcore pvp out of the name, but they should take out SANDBOX haha. I HATE QUESTS. Running parcels is actually a hardcore mechanic. It's like doing penance.

 

[LordMega]

It really is game-breaking-ly bad. You guys are gonna see, on release, but I'm just trying to give a heads up. MC system was ok cuz only salty nubs gave MCs haha, and it burnt out over time. It probably should have maxed at higher than five tho, to be fair, cuz like I said I'm not in it to gank people for their stuff. I can make my own stuff easier I don't have a power complex where I enjoy lifting people's gear. But there are def times when you have to fight, even if you are a super care bear. People hiding behind flags has always been semi-annoying, but it just got 100x (no pun!) more annoying.

TLDR: Rep system GOOD. What it is now... BAD. VERY UNDERDEVELOPED. VERY NON-SANDBOX. They say they wanna take hardcore pvp out of the name, but they should take out SANDBOX haha. I HATE QUESTS. Running parcels is actually a hardcore mechanic. It's like doing penance.

Regarding the flagging system.. It straight up doesn't make sense. I'll give an example. Last night in Vadda, someone goes gray killing someone else. That gray person then takes their victim's gear and runs off, but couldn't get away before my friends & I cut him down (guards were slow in coming for whatever reason). So then the victim comes back, but now must pull HIS gear off of the gray guy's body. But wait, that gear is now red/STOLEN. So this guy gets flagged for getting HIS OWN GEAR BACK. Now he loses REP in Vadda because he took HIS OWN GEAR BACK. Genius system man. People lose rep getting their own things back from murderers & thieves.

But hey let's jut pretend that the rep system is fine, that the flagging system is okay.

I'm not saying to make it noob friendly. I just want it to make sense for a PvP game. Clearly it does not, it is one of the things everyone is least satisfied with in this game. Nobody really likes the rep. People that say they like the rep system almost certainly do not understand it. I'm sure people who sit around killing horses from just outside guard range for 16 hours a day absolutely love how the current pvp & rep system works. But those of us who actually want to play the game hate it. It is obviously designed to be intentionally very harsh to murderers, but that means that anyone who PvPs at all has a very punishing mechanic to deal with. It's not fun right now trying to get around the rep system. Way too much gameplay time is now dedicated to worrying about rep and running parcels all over. Very unfun, unneeded mechanic. Needs a lot of work. Honestly it was better when we could just farm risars.

 

[Jatix]

One thing to consider is how interactions happen in the world. If you're running back and forth between cities all day to run parcels, you're certain to run into other players. Literally you're going to wind up losing rep to pvp that you encounter, as you're trying to gain your rep.

The only way this bad rep system works is if they make it so that out in the wild far enough from town is lawless and you cant get rep loss. Then people can fight away from towns to not lose rep and not have to run parcels. But the current system is just horrific. Any chance Sv had of farming me for $15 a month is dead as long as parcel running is in the game as the way to regain rep with no intelligent way to not lose rep while getting any action. I'm just not doing it. Its way too boring, and the pvp isnt worth the rep loss.

 

[Tashka]

The only way this bad rep system works is if they make it so that out in the wild far enough from town is lawless and you cant get rep loss. Then people can fight away from towns to not lose rep and not have to run parcels. But the current system is just horrific. Any chance Sv had of farming me for $15 a month is dead as long as parcel running is in the game as the way to regain rep with no intelligent way to not lose rep while getting any action. I'm just not doing it. Its way too boring, and the pvp isnt worth the rep loss.

It doesn't work either way. If i can P2W my way out of the boring and terribly designed system, i will. I'm not running parcels on release thank you. I'll either use an alt account or have guildmates help me with town stuff. Problem solved. MK dropback is the only thing i'll miss, since it's in the guard zone. Murderers in other towns won't even have this problem, at all.

 

[Emdash]

The poll is closer than expected! Obviously this is not going to affect anything anyway, but if it came out super anti-rep then it might, maybe??

I just want a way to earn rep in MY OWN CITY so I can deal with undesirable blues. People have it plotted out to pvp across the map, but if you are living in a city, you have to do city defense, and city defense can get you... unable to enter your own city. Wheee.

@Jatix the rep you lose around Jungle camp is not relevant anywhere. I dunno where the lines are drawn though. I do agree that there should be wild open pvp, but my main problem is with pvp like killing griefy blues who are parcel inspired. If they can out parcel me, they can continue to do whatever. Thus, it is not really based on behavior, but parcels. I bring back horses... I sell stuff on broker, I cook, 0 rep. like 3/4ths of my game life is trying to help the city I live in and of course getting a little gains, then I wanna go have fun and do w/e... I can certainly exist without PvPing, but as I said before, the problem is that Mo2 is much more content bare than Mo1 at this point. It's just raw widget making... and for what? I'm glad for people w/ guilds big enough to have decs and support it, or big enough to have keeps and live out of them, but I mean imagine if you were fighting outside of your keep and you were unable to re-enter your keep because you hit five people who died. lol.

The most sane part of MO, that keeps it from going over the edge to ridic survival game, is static towns, to lock people out of them or force them to live in the N is pretty wack. If there was a way to gain rep IN TOWN or if you rep replenished over time. I'm all for getting rid of horse griefing and that should affect town rep a lot, but otherwise... I dunno. The main thing the game has going for it right now is pvp, how can they lock it out? So people who are new can make widgets? Cool, but in the end they are going to get bored, too, or get farmed anyway. The pvp aspect was always interesting to me because as a survivalist, you can still win without pvping by NOT GETTING KILLED. All the people getting farmed while I was moving mats are making my mats more valuable. I even get the slight goodfeels of knowing I am supplying my city with mats that other people have trouble bringing back. It's a real shitshow.

 

[Darran]

The system needs an overhaul, it has many flaws, is somewhat useless and very confusing for new players.

 

[Raknor]

The system needs an overhaul, it has many flaws, is somewhat useless and very confusing for new players.

I agree system is bad, but disabling it would be worse IMO

 

[Bogler]

This flagging mechanic has been flawed since the beginning of its inception. It's pretty simple fix IMO, make certain areas in the map flag you local grey no matter your red,blue,criminal status. You can limit these areas to dungeons (sator,mino,risar ect.) if you're looking for more centralized designated PvP areas where players will actively go for PvP or content to fight over. Or place radius around each "Blue" town which the territory extends their laws and outside of said territory it's lawless lands. Mudercounts stay the same as that's supposedly tied to your characters soul rather than the reputation system.

 

[Emdash]

I agree system is bad, but disabling it would be worse IMO

disabling it back to raw MC?

and yea Bogler that's what I was hoping for except larger areas than just dungeons, most of the map beyond cities. No reason to not have pvp in the wild. If you wanna stay safe, stay around town. The flag system, as I've said repeatedly, only benefits those who are in large guilds who have the resources to gear up as reds or repless. It does not encourage small guilds or solos to fight when necessary.

And again REP is something you get in game regardless, people treat you by their experience with you. Everyone knows everyone, more or less, or will by the end.

 

[LordMega]

The only way this bad rep system works is if they make it so that out in the wild far enough from town is lawless and you cant get rep loss. Then people can fight away from towns to not lose rep and not have to run parcels. But the current system is just horrific. Any chance Sv had of farming me for $15 a month is dead as long as parcel running is in the game as the way to regain rep with no intelligent way to not lose rep while getting any action. I'm just not doing it. Its way too boring, and the pvp isnt worth the rep loss.

Yeah, there's really no "safe" area to pvp. Even if you pvp someone out in the middle of nowhere, you can lose rep. And you can kill someone in Kranesh or GK or Jungle Camp or Mino Dungeon, doesn't matter if they chose to go resurrect at MK I lose Khurite rep, if they rez over a Tindrem there goes some rep with that faction. People will die in dungeons in a big group and then their entire group will rez across the map and suddenly you're -10 rep and banned from town because you fought a guild vs guild fight down in Sator dungeon but they just rez'd back home and now you're a murderer.

Honestly 2 weeks out this rep system blows my mind. I refuse to believe that the intended design is that everyone just play really nice together in this hardcore sandbox. What, I'm supposed to see someone at a dungeon, shake their hand, tell them good luck, watch them defeat the boss I came to do, leave with all their loot and I just sit patiently for an hour so the boss can respawn? Is that the gameplay I'm intended to do? If not, why is the punishment for not doing that so severe?

And to the people that think I'm exaggerating here. You must remember that a majority of players haven't rerolled their main character in a while now, we had almost a year of 100x skill gain to test builds out already and we're done. Many of us are sitting on characters that had max rep from when risar farming was the rep system. Which means, of course, that many of our characters are also blue, because we PvP'd at some point. I have over 100 MC's but I have heard that even players in ARPK guilds have over 100 MC's on some of their characters. Let that sink in: people against murdering random players are deeep red right now. So you all are not getting the rep loss from us that you would be seeing at release, because at the moment we're all still "Red" characters with plenty of standing.

I'm sure it will be loads more fun when everyone gives you rep loss and 99% of players are blue.