How will Smaller guilds protect their 🏰 Castles while they are offline? Auto Arrow Turret idea, mounted by guards, also "guard mode" pets idea.

[PoisonArrows]

As others said already, no artificial troops to defend your keep for you, its a player driven game and we all know how bad it got in MO. Lets just not open that box again.

Best way is to have to announce sieges and have a time frame it takes from announcement to actual siege start in any of the numerous ways that have been tried in other games. Noone likes ninja sieges.

That's the thing though, people keep talking about MO1, half the time it's to describe the lacking player base. But every other game has base defense. The idea that Mo2 is going to be better If it has no base defense is honestly a joke, you can't make a Genre of game better by doing less then the competition, you also can't say you are the most hardcore. 1 Guy practically sounded like he wants to shoot a Catapult without anything being able to shoot back at him. These people probably have 10 accounts with different names too, because they are the same ones that have been complaining about Pets for like 10 years. Even though pets are hard countered by Mounted Archers. That's only the half of it, also what is a Castle/Keep/Stronghold if it's just a house with walls. What are we doing in there, Sipping tea and Role playing on furniture? Territory Control is the only plus i am seeing to any of this, the whole rest of the idea of building things with nothing else in it sounds like more trouble then it's worth. But still one must ask themselves why build any of these things, if you can simply build a house or get a Wagon and gather resources and bank them. For what reason does a Castle having territory control even matter.. a few tax gold an that's it? I mean come on, the territory control From MO1 and overall base design was actually SUPER LACKING and now you guys want them to do even LESS. Most of the player base actually doesn't hate guards, it's only like 1% mainly the pvp griefers. Because everyone loves the teleport lictor change in the towns too, except for the same town bank griefers that occasionally complain about it.

 

[MolagAmur]

For your last point: You argue that you don't want ninja sieging to happen, but you also argue that Ai and turrets are not needed. You might want to think about how that contracts itself. You also say War Plans are a good idea, instead of simply drop a mang and start lobbing boulders.. What is War plans if it's just a players vs players without anything added in since the last game? The idea of plans involves using a means to defeat the enemy. If there is no means, then there is no plan, just idiots swinging swords at each other, uncoordinated as all hell, like that defense of the Tindrem tournament. If you think this is going to be some lord of the rings shit with a commander shouting "ARCHERS".... and then "SWORDS" and everyone doing things at the same time and we are going to take down the enemy before they scale our walls you got another thing coming XD. Hell we sorta saw 1 guy trying to command the forces of tindrem in the tournament and it looked like a jumbled up mess. And it made no difference, that's the most important part. It made no difference. That's what PvP looks like right now in this game. And there is so much wrong with it, from getting geared to making money to get gear, to just 2 guys walking in circles poking a spear at each other.... Because there is no combat abilities. I mean... is that battle of tindrem really what you guys want this game to look like.. I mean be honest with yourselves, because unless there is other stuff added to the game then that's what the game is going to stay looking like lol.

Well thats why I spoke about siege windows and stuff. That would solve the need for NPC and turrets. Also there are a lot of war plans that happen with a siege. No I'm not talking about some fucking lord of the rings shit where the commander is going to be shouting "archers". Jesus. I'm talking about the logistics of successfully sieging or defending a keep. Such as coordinating with allies, having a small group interrupt boulder runners, having a group set up outside the enemy base/town to prevent them from freely leaving the city, camping priests, creating distractions with you counter siege, etc. Sieges were extremely interesting in my earlier days of MO1 when they lasted days and you had actual good guilds and guild leaders going at it. I have no clue what this "battle of Tindrem" thing is you talk about. But at the risk of sounding cringe....anything happening in this beta is childs-play. There are very creative people out there that can do some very interesting things during war. I'm sure you'll see once persistent happens.

Also, do you understand what we mean we we talk about siege windows?

 

[PoisonArrows]

Well thats why I spoke about siege windows and stuff. That would solve the need for NPC and turrets. Also there are a lot of war plans that happen with a siege. No I'm not talking about some fucking lord of the rings shit where the commander is going to be shouting "archers". Jesus. I'm talking about the logistics of successfully sieging or defending a keep. Such as coordinating with allies, having a small group interrupt boulder runners, having a group set up outside the enemy base/town to prevent them from freely leaving the city, camping priests, creating distractions with you counter siege, etc. Sieges were extremely interesting in my earlier days of MO1 when they lasted days and you had actual good guilds and guild leaders going at it. I have no clue what this "battle of Tindrem" thing is you talk about. But at the risk of sounding cringe....anything happening in this beta is childs-play. There are very creative people out there that can do some very interesting things during war. I'm sure you'll see once persistent happens.

Also, do you understand what we mean we we talk about siege windows?

Good I'm glad you haven't seen it yet. Then maybe this will open your eyes. Mortal Online 2 Tindrem Massacre 4k Tournament Crash - YouTube Pretty much Mortal Online2 group PVP, and that is what Base defense will look like too. It's lacking, this guy already tried your idea and though his "Commanding" the troops wasn't as advanced of a idea as the plan you just said. It still wouldn't be much to look at. I just feel like there could be "More" a lot more to Pvp. Weapon Abilities/Special attacks, Siege Engines. Siege Weapons, Guards where you can customize the armor and weapons and spell load outs, Npcs like Pets, Traps to stop the enemy. And i have already shown other games have done this stuff and it didn't break the game, it just made them more fun. Mortal Online2 is very bare bones right now.


I mean the entirety of the game can be boiled down to this right now. Endgame Gear Cronite, takes maybe a week to get. Then a bunch of guys battling over other pointless resources that are less valuable and useful then cronite, with people fighting over keep/castles that are in vicinity to other useless resources. With nothing in between just guys fighting in Ironbone mostly because the community hates Metal armor for some reason. No Siege Weapons, No way to upgrade or make your castle/keep better defended just grinders/crushers and other shit for the other useless materials. The game lacks content and depth of combat that most other games offer. And it can hardly be considered a Sandbox game if you can't even build things except a house with walls.

 

[PoisonArrows]

i, for one, much prefer siege windows. personally i think the sieges should last for a few hours and either you take the keep or not; its not realistic for players to be defending sieges for an infinite time frame, the majority of us simply dont have that kind of playtime available.

the mechanic of selecting a siege window must be that noone can outright declare the window. i.e. the defender cant say their siege windows are their primetime playing hours and people in australia/japan time are then practically immune due to low pop, and vice versa. have attackers choose a relatively wide window, then defenders narrow that down a bit and it continues back and forth till you end up with a 2-3 hour siege time that both sides can prepare for.

unrelated, but npcs have no place in defending a keep. make defensive structures buildable and mannable by players to give the defenders an advantage.

-barcode

lol i hadn't actually thought of that until now. A siege lasting forever It's like lol okay i gave it my best effort, i gotta log off now to sleep for work you guys win xD


Perhaps like the Mailing System that can Require Mail on Delivery of item? So both people agree to a time for the battle for the siege equipment to actually work only during that time frame?


For Ai guards they would need to be toned down a bit either in damage or in accuracy. Or Allow the attacking force to equalize with hired Mercenary Ai, i believe Henrik said there is going to be 3 different types of guards with 1 being mercenaries. Either way i still firmly believe the attackers have the advantage, no one is going to attack a keep they know they can't take, because then the defenders can easily go destroy their shit next Not to mention amount of guards hired are dependent on how much gold you have to spend.


So you do like the idea of Defensive Structures though? What ones would you like to see? I liked the idea of Boiling Oil, and Arrow Towers as i am not sure Mortal Wants to enter the age of Cannons as it allows Gun Powder, which means guns.

What about Traps for defending areas? How do you feel about this idea?

 

[Jackdstripper]

I think you heard the word "Castle" and missed the point i was trying to make in this entire post. I'm not talking about Keeps or whatever the word is for the biggest Castle in the game. Unless i am mistaken, i thought Henrik said normal players can build Houses and also something else that looked to me like a Castle. I think he called the house the "Small house" and the Castle "The Big House".

Realistically all i was trying to say was, how can smaller guilds protect their base, with a few idea's added in as suggestions for base defense.

Bringing this convo back to normal respectful debate….the keep is the only castle in MO(or at least in MO1). The other buildings, like houses, banks, farms, traders,crafting benches, towers, etc were all utilitarian. only keeps allowed for territory control and gave you siege weapons.

regardless if you are talking about a keep, or just a player made village i am still against AI sentries. They were already introduced in MO1 and they were absolutely broken. You could have mage sentries that aim botted through walls and would just respawn after being killed.
sieges were a complete cluster fuck, and AI cheese fest.

i would be ok with a 12 hour timer that is required to deploy siege equipment or something like that. Something to avoid ninja sieges. However, the biggest issue with ninja sieges was offline boulder holders, and that has been partly addressed with the 1 character per account. Ninja sieges will be much harder to do now.

just no aim bot AI with endless lives please.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Bringing this convo back to normal respectful debate….the keep is the only castle in MO(or at least in MO1). The other buildings, like houses, banks, farms, traders,crafting benches, towers, etc were all utilitarian. only keeps allowed for territory control and gave you siege weapons.

regardless if you are talking about a keep, or just a player made village i am still against AI sentries. They were already introduced in MO1 and they were absolutely broken. You could have mage sentries that aim botted through walls and would just respawn after being killed.
sieges were a complete cluster fuck, and AI cheese fest.

i would be ok with a 12 hour timer that is required to deploy siege equipment or something like that. Something to avoid ninja sieges. However, the biggest issue with ninja sieges was offline boulder holders, and that has been partly addressed with the 1 character per account. Ninja sieges will be much harder to do now.

just no aim bot AI with endless lives please.

Endless Lives with Automated Respawn is indeed a problem, I'm not sure how you'd tweak the aim bot system however, as i thought of lowering Ai accuracy but that might open up a entire Can of Worms of balance and other shit that would turn this game into Runescape lol. Ah as i write this i came up with another idea, i know development power is limited right now, and as such they could add a extra Gold Fee for auto respawn guards and the keep would run out of gold to fund that eventually solving the problem. Although the reward of raiding them for gold would go down due to this. However a easy fix would be a Token that can be used to trade to a NPC for stronger Siege Equipment, Stronger Dragon Capture abilities and such and would be worth a massive amount of gold as well. But if they could do it like Conquerors Blade Ai accuracy then that might be slightly better. Henrik already said that Dragons will be a part of the game as base defense but said they are "Rare creatures, and once killed never spawn again" so the next dragon would be a different one, different stats, abilities ect. But with that being said, it stands to reason that Ai is not going to automatically respawn once killed (Except for Main town guards), i presume that goes for hired guards as well. Side Note: Funny enough if a dragon never spawns again I'd be perfectly okay with it automatically respawning in the town it was defending, as Mo1 Dragons were killed and never seen again.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Bringing this convo back to normal respectful debate….the keep is the only castle in MO(or at least in MO1). The other buildings, like houses, banks, farms, traders,crafting benches, towers, etc were all utilitarian. only keeps allowed for territory control and gave you siege weapons.

regardless if you are talking about a keep, or just a player made village i am still against AI sentries. They were already introduced in MO1 and they were absolutely broken. You could have mage sentries that aim botted through walls and would just respawn after being killed.
sieges were a complete cluster fuck, and AI cheese fest.

i would be ok with a 12 hour timer that is required to deploy siege equipment or something like that. Something to avoid ninja sieges. However, the biggest issue with ninja sieges was offline boulder holders, and that has been partly addressed with the 1 character per account. Ninja sieges will be much harder to do now.

just no aim bot AI with endless lives please.

Also i thought didn't henrik say players who make their own towns without a keep can have like portable utility, like Grinders, Crushers, Butcher tables, Camp fires ect. Yes i remember how those things operated in Mo1 with the keep, i may be a bit confused i thought there was other house ideas being made in Mo2 that added those functions as well.

 

[MolagAmur]

Bringing this convo back to normal respectful debate….the keep is the only castle in MO(or at least in MO1). The other buildings, like houses, banks, farms, traders,crafting benches, towers, etc were all utilitarian. only keeps allowed for territory control and gave you siege weapons.

regardless if you are talking about a keep, or just a player made village i am still against AI sentries. They were already introduced in MO1 and they were absolutely broken. You could have mage sentries that aim botted through walls and would just respawn after being killed.
sieges were a complete cluster fuck, and AI cheese fest.

i would be ok with a 12 hour timer that is required to deploy siege equipment or something like that. Something to avoid ninja sieges. However, the biggest issue with ninja sieges was offline boulder holders, and that has been partly addressed with the 1 character per account. Ninja sieges will be much harder to do now.

just no aim bot AI with endless lives please.

Pretty sure there is a program people are using to multiclient already. But I get what you're saying. I still don't think its enough...

And agreed to no aimbot AI.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Pretty sure there is a program people are using to multiclient already. But I get what you're saying. I still don't think its enough...

And agreed to no aimbot AI.

I have heard that before too from some people but they kept it a secret. Or perhaps they just have like multiple computers and bot or something.

 

[MolagAmur]

I have heard that before too from some people but they kept it a secret. Or perhaps they just have like multiple computers and bot or something.

Well luckily I have multiple computers. Not everyone has that luxury. We ran into this same issue with ArcheAge Unchained.

One character per person isn't possible to enforce. So designing things around it seems pointless and kinda harmful.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Well luckily I have multiple computers. Not everyone has that luxury. We ran into this same issue with ArcheAge Unchained.

One character per person isn't possible to enforce. So designing things around it seems pointless and kinda harmful.

My experience trying to get the community to work together ended with a guild leader sicking his boys on me after i stopped giving him granum to steal my waterstones lol. But i still search for some cool players to play with, but the community is very jaded and hard to get to work together.

 

[MolagAmur]

My experience trying to get the community to work together ended with a guild leader sicking his boys on me after i stopped giving him granum to steal my waterstones lol. But i still search for some cool players to play with, but the community is very jaded and hard to get to work together.

I mean its natural for a full loot free for all MMO for people to stick to their guilds. There are of course friendly players who work together that aren't guilded...but id say majority of people do whatever has their own or their guilds best interest.

 

[Teknique]

Don't get me wrong I didn't read any portion of this thread. but the title is pure gold.

 

[PoisonArrows]

I mean its natural for a full loot free for all MMO for people to stick to their guilds. There are of course friendly players who work together that aren't guilded...but id say majority of people do whatever has their own or their guilds best interest.

Well i mean since the game is old and most of us are Vets we are all excited for Mo2 but all of our grudges carry into Mortal Online2. And there is no community like Mo2 i mean this community gives the Dwarf Kings from Warhammer and their book of grudges a run for their money. Any time you want to play with someone, 1st thing they ask is "What guild are you in, and what guilds are you allies with" xD I'm actually looking to expand my guild.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Don't get me wrong I didn't read any portion of this thread. but the title is pure gold.

The question is still relevant, even if Castles are now Keeps or whatever. The confusion was from my misunderstanding what henrik meant when he was describing houses and castles in a stream. I thought there would be other house options, but that seems to not be the case. Or there is strongholds idk lol. Either way i am just curious as what defense options there could be. Right now the community seems split on Ai and most seem to agree on siege weapons for defense.

 

[Kebek]

They won't.

Join a bigger guild or accept you're not going to be building and keeping keeps.
"Some people have lives and responsibilities" is the worst argument you can put forward cause that's exactly why guilds are big. So that there's enough people to cover the down time of others while they are living their lives.

Having a large guild requires more effort and causes more stress. The reward is being able to efficiently participate in TC.
Why should a small guild enjoy the same reward?

There is no point in a 5 man guild owning Fabernum, for example.

 

[Kuthara]

I do not think Keeps are designed for small Guilds. The new Fortress building is better suited to the medium to small guild although you will still have to tackle the potential of being sieged.

I guess it is good to make sure you are on decent terms with the local powers before you plonk down assets in their territory.

 

[Amadman]

They won't.

Join a bigger guild or accept you're not going to be building and keeping keeps.
"Some people have lives and responsibilities" is the worst argument you can put forward cause that's exactly why guilds are big. So that there's enough people to cover the down time of others while they are living their lives.

Having a large guild requires more effort and causes more stress. The reward is being able to efficiently participate in TC.
Why should a small guild enjoy the same reward?

There is no point in a 5 man guild owning Fabernum, for example.

This^

I have never been in a large guild and probably never will be.

So, I will never have a keep/castle as it is not meant for me.


I still do expect to be able to make a small non walled village with tools/vendors and such.

But being able to aid in siege equipment construction does not seem like it would fit with houses.

Especially when Henrik suggested that they will be trying to make it less likely for houses to be targets of siege equipment.

 

[PoisonArrows]

I do not think Keeps are designed for small Guilds. The new Fortress building is better suited to the medium to small guild although you will still have to tackle the potential of being sieged.

I guess it is good to make sure you are on decent terms with the local powers before you plonk down assets in their territory.

So to Clarify is the Tiers of House building 1.) House, 2.) then Fortress, 3.) Then Stronghold, 4.) Then Keep? I've mentioned this a few times in comments already but there is too many pages for people to read through now. The main topic of this was to see what defenses small guilds could acquire to defend their base.

 

[Najwalaylah]

Literally, not figuratively, 18 years ago I played Shadowbane and it had many flaws but the Bane (siege) system didn't seem to be one of them.

You knew when a Bane had been dropped, and the Tree Owner had an approaching window of time from which to choose the hour at which she would start the defense of her Tree. Either the Bane ate the Tree, or the defenders destroyed the Bane. There were trebuchets that could be used with the proper skill. Anything less vital than a Tree of Life could be taken down without a Bane Stone-- eventually. It's been so long I forget the little details, but there was still plenty of fighting and if anyone slept through a siege it was bacause he had decided not to defend.

I think I've pointed this out at intervals over a span of ten years or so. Maybe something like that SB system (including siege windows) with Mortal Online characteristics could work for MO2, or ideas could be borrowed from it. Maybe nothing of the sort will be considered. I'm tired.